Comments on: EEVblog #39 – PICkit 3 Programmer/Debugger Review

By: Victor

Victor — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:46:28 +0000

Nice review!

Does anyone know if these problems are already solved?

Thanks a lot,

Victor

By: tobias

tobias — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:15:45 +0000

hahaha…that was a god one !
retarded product of the week

two things:
do you have fluorescent lights in your lab ?
sometimes the white balance or something elses in your camcorder pulses and makes the image changing brightness and colour !

is there one of these aussie bugs somewhere around ? these were driving us nuts when travelling australia…
if you are interested…it’s all in german, but you may like it http://www.regisberlin.de

cheers mate,

keep up the good work !

may i pay you a visit if i come to australia next year ?

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 05:17:13 +0000

@ ss13901
“They could at least disable auto voltage by default but let the user enable it if they want. GIVE YOUR CUSTOMERS SOME CREDIT FOR NOT BEING TOTALLY INEPT!”

I agree, the option should be there.
I did discuss this with Steve Sanghi and he said they’ll look into it, but would leave it up to the developers and others to decide. Based on the video, I’d say they won’t ever put the option in.

Yeah, they did make a big deal over the light pipes, mostly in jest I’m sure, but really, the LEDs are hardly worth worrying about, I just like to nit-pick!

By: ss13901

ss13901 — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:18:16 +0000

“The auto VDD voltage was removed deliberately due to potential damage to chips if applied incorrectly.”

Horse apples! I’ve never heard of this being a problem with pk2. If it really was, you’d think they’d have taken it out of pk2.

They could at least disable auto voltage by default but let the user enable it if they want. GIVE YOUR CUSTOMERS SOME CREDIT FOR NOT BEING TOTALLY INEPT!

This probably came from the other corporate bane… lawyers.

I see they’ve completely failed to mention anything about one of the biggest issues (IMO) – having to constantly change out the firmware.

Their response video also left me unimpressed. They basically only said they’d look at the light pipes (whoop) and that the standalone was coming (some day). Otherwise the attitude was like “marketing isn’t doing enough to shove it down their throats.”

And I’ve noticed its slower on 16-bit parts too.

By: Miki

Miki — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:00:45 +0000

An here’s their vide response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YUvlrVlNao

By: ericwertz

ericwertz — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:39:38 +0000

I’m not totally surprised that you just heard from Sanghi. You might even want to read his book, which I’d highly recommend. Just do your absolute best to make sure you don’t give up after just the first two chapters, because they’re eye-rollers, and it’s really a shame.

It give you hope that perhaps not *all* managers are good arguments for birth control…

However, you’re probably the 1000th person to complain about this thing. It’s been a huge disappointment, known by many, for well over a year. It’s been a real fart on the head of an otherwise pretty decent product track record.

By: MattC

MattC — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:08:35 +0000

I’ve gotta say, this is probably the most entertaining blog yet. I’ve never used PICs (more of an Atmel guy..) but it looks like they’ve headed in very much the wrong direction with the PICkit 3.
Was this something that they sent you to review or did you buy it yourself?

By: Ray Jones

Ray Jones — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:58:43 +0000

Dealextreme?

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:58:08 +0000

“Dave, proper terms, they didn’t screw the PICkit 3, rather, they emasculated it.”

Yep, fair call!
They just need to fix the damn software side of things.

Dave.

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:56:17 +0000

@ Trevarrick
There is nothing inherently wrong with the PICkit3 or PICs, it’s just Microchips attitude to it and implementation of it compared to the PICkit2.
If you are not used to the PICkit2 and its nice external programmer software, then you probably won’t notice any issues with the PICkit3 at all, and it’ll probably seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
My blog was in no way meant to turn anyway away from the PICkit3 or PIC’s, it was meant to put some fire up Microchips bum for making silly changes to a winning product.
So buy the PICkit3 and enjoy your PICs. Other brands have just as many issues.
Dave.

By: Jakeypoo

Jakeypoo — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:30:09 +0000

No stand alone UI?

I love my PICkit2! Mine has seen better days so I’d better go and order another one if they are going to discontinue.

After the first time I used it, I designed all my micro-based projects to connect the PICkit2 as an in circuit programmer and UART for debuging. LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT!

By: Trevarrick

Trevarrick — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:27:50 +0000

I’m totally new to microcontrollers, but after endless searching and comparing I decided that Microchip Pics and Pickit 3 were the ideal solution. Then I saw your excellent blog and it stopped me in my tracks.
I feel your anger. I can see management screwing this up just like you said.
Now I’m back at square one. I don’t want Pickit 2 if it’s not supported and I’ve lost my confidence in Pickit 3.
Is there a better solution out there? – maybe not using Microchip products at all?

By: Sean

Sean — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:46:54 +0000

Dave, proper terms, they didn’t screw the PICkit 3, rather, they emasculated it. The first term might mean something was added in a bad manner, the proper second one means it’s incapable due to a major loss. Like rubber banding a lamb.

And MBA as defined by one of your Aussie financial experts, means “Mostly Bloody Aweful”. Best article ever, explains why stuff over here is rotting on the vine.

By: Neil

Neil — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:09:52 +0000

Dave you did mention one good thing the PICkit 3 has over the 2 – the case is “funky”.

By: Michael Thompson

Michael Thompson — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:37:44 +0000

You know I come for the outstanding blogging and humorous and informative style, but I stay for the flying pig.

By: septer012 - Daniel

septer012 - Daniel — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:43 +0000

I have an ICD2 Clone, that does everything I ask of it. Dirt cheap to 45 USD.

By: Timothy Tee

Timothy Tee — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:53:18 +0000

Thanks Dave and Fernando,
I will stick back to PK3. Now, I just need to find a PK2 book and translate it to PK3.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:32:40 +0000

The PICkit 3 DOES support PTG btw. You should check the latest release of MPLAB.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:29:23 +0000

I get on well with the PICkit 3. I use MPLAB all the time anyway, so the lack of separate programming program doesn’t bother me.

The biggest improvement for me is the ICD2 to ICD3. It’s almost as quick as my RealICE.

By: DaveMac

DaveMac — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:54:47 +0000

Another excellent blog. Funny but true.

I guess other analogies would be Microsoft bringing out versions of Windows which are always slower and harder to use thatn the last version. Some committee in Microsoft obviously thinks they are have an improved interface but all they do is lead to frustration as you have to drill down a few more layers to find the function you want. How does that make it easier to use? And what’s worse is that if you want to use Windows (why would you?) you essentially have to use the new version packaged with your new PC or pay twice for the license.

And why did Linksys change their highly popular WRT54G router from linux to VMware? the reason they were so popular was because they were hackable. Why kill your market? Admittedly they did backtrack and bring out a GL version which had linux once more but only after an outcry from customers.

It just goes to show that companies don’t understand their customers and don’t engage with them to find out what they want. Surely that’s in their interests? You’d think.

Anyway, glad I have my PICkit2, I think I’ll maybe hold off upgrading

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:58:41 +0000

@ Ryan
I got my PICkit2 from Modtronix in Australia:
http://www.modtronix.com/

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:56:22 +0000

@ Timothy
A agree, just stick with the PICkit3, unless you specifically like some of the other features of the PICkit2
The PK3 does the same basic program/debug job as the PK2, just more annoyingly.
Guides to the PK2 will be similar for the PK3, they have just changed the option menu in MPLAB a bit, but otherwise works basically identically.

By: Fernando

Fernando — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:37:18 +0000

@ Timothy Tee
If you are just starting and PicKit 2 will be discontinued, you should just stick with the PicKit 3 or search for other usb programmer that is in active developement

By: Shawn J. Goff

Shawn J. Goff — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:41:55 +0000

Great episode, although it was difficult to watch with the thing waving around the whole time. What was especially painful was the punching toward the camera repeatedly.

By: Timothy Tee

Timothy Tee — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:54:40 +0000

I wanted to start learning micro-controller. I heard a lot of contradicting opinion and no one in the Microchip forum willing to advice me in this. Hence I got my PICKit 3. Now I kinda regret.
Since this PICKit 3 just came out recently, I can’t find any reference book for me. I only had those lessons user guide that came together with the device.
Should I go back and purchase the PICKit 2? Please advice me in this.

By: Johannes

Johannes — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:13:32 +0000

I second that too.

This episode is the best one yet, i was ticked off too about the PK3. Watching Dave getting ticked off is priceless…

By: EEVblog

EEVblog — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:47:20 +0000

Re: “flying pig”
I actually have a flying pig, really! I’m going to have to install it in the EEVblog lab!

By: Peter

Peter — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:01:34 +0000

Right on the spot, and exactly what I find about PicKit3. (Well, I just bought one because I had to for programming of new devices…)
You forgot to mention the annoying blue led they added. The middle led is blue, and so bright, that it also illuminates the both other led lenses so it’s difficult to see them.
Why does every new product has to have a blue led on it? We have red, green, yellow, or even white that’s a lot nicer to look at…

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:27:03 +0000

One of the strengths of the PICkit 2 was its open-source firmware and application code. I have used mine as an ad-hoc protocol analyzer a couple times. I wrote new firmware to do bidirectional serial or SPI analysis, solved my problem, and moved on.

I don’t see any firmware source available for the 3. Not sure if this is symptom, cause, or result of the poor product design.

If anyone is interested in helping port the PICkit 2 firmware to the 3, please join us at http://groups.google.com/group/pickit-devel

By: David RObertson

David RObertson — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:19:14 +0000

Use Atmel AVRs instead!

By: robert

robert — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:45:58 +0000

Just lovely.

I’m sure the missing features will be available at some time as an upgrade of some sort. Maybe they’ll even come up with a 4pin logic analyzer, too.

At times like this I’m glad there’s open source software for AVR chips

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:32:46 +0000

You missed one potential reason for that bad software:
Outsourcing to the lowest bidder.

And the outsourcing company in Ebonia might have told the MBA guys that this is the way one does software these days. Because the outsourcing company subcontracted the software piecemeal to five student “HTML programmers” and a flying pig.

By: Spark

Spark — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:27:23 +0000

LOL Dave, this video blog is so funny, best one yet. Nice rant and honest review.

By: David DLC

David DLC — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:15:56 +0000

Sorry: To sad they will force to use the version 3 and discontinue the 2.

By: David DLC

David DLC — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:15:09 +0000

I totally agree with you Dave, I had the exact same problems and thinkings as your review.

Too sad they will force to use it and discontinue the PicKit 3.

But is a good opportunity for a hack right there.

By: starlino

starlino — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:54:10 +0000

Wow Dave , you made me want to stock-up on pickit2 too, in case mine breaks. I guess after pickit2s are gone this will give a lot of market to the pickit2 knockoffs. I think I saw some on Ebay. Very sorry to see such a gaffe coming from such a great company as Microchip.

By: Ryan Leach

Ryan Leach — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:15:29 +0000

Hey thanks for the review on the pickit 3, i might go out and buy a pickit2 while there still around, the thing thats been stopping me programming has been this dodgey ass programmer i have, any ideas on where to buy them in australia/adelaide?

By: László Monda

László Monda — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:53:15 +0000

This is a perfect example of how new versions of things are sometimes inferior to old versions.

An analogy I can think of is the ASUS WL-500GP router, version 1 vs version 2. The former is more hackable (upgradable RAM, changeable Mini PCI wifi card) while both has equally powerful CPUs.

I wish I knew that before buying two V2’s.