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  • Graphene / Lithium Ion Capacitor Kickstarter BS

    Posted on July 28th, 2014 EEVblog 85 comments


    I’ve had a lot of people ask me to comment on THIS project in Kickstarter.

    It was supposed to be a rechargeable battery based on Lithium Ion Capacitor technology.
    Ok, cool, nothing wrong with that, sounds good. A guy has mated a Lithium Ion Capacitor with a small custom regulator and fitted it into a standard AA size battery holder.
    It even has a nice novel quick charging ring on the outside (could it short out to something though?).

    So it’s all looking quite neat until you read the specs where he claims the capacity is 1150 mAh, and can recharge in a claimed 30 seconds, and that’s when people started to call BS on this idea, and I was one of them.

    I was going to do a video on this, because it’s fairly easy to read the DATASHEET for the cap and calculate the maximum charging rate and capacity of such a system.
    Some people have already done this HERE and HERE.
    Turns out that the capacity is going to be more than an order of magnitude less than the 1150mAh claimed! About 35mAh or thereabouts, about 1/30th of that claimed. And it can’t be charged in 30 seconds, it’ll take at least 60 seconds according to the datasheet max rating. You canna’ change the laws of physics Captain!

     

    So this guy copped a whole host of deserved criticism about the capacity, but rather than provide test data he just said:

    “As far as how long my battery will last, per charge, I can tell you this. I put one in a toy that my 1 year old daughter plays with every day, all day. It’s been in there for a week and it’s still going strong.

    Oh dear. Huge red flag right there. You can’t throw out a capacity figure and not prove it with basic controlled tests.

    But here is the kicker (pun intended), what does he say in response to all this technical criticism? Instead of providing the test data, or admit he simply got it wrong, he SPILLS THE BEANS on what the project is really about…

    It’s a graphene capacitor!

    He’s going to get a manufacturer to use his own home made graphene powder that he supplies them.

    Well, ok, you can make your own graphene, and there is quite a deal of research going into graphene capacitors.

    But he’s now gone from implying that he was using existing Lithium Ion Capacitors and needed the money to mass produce the PCBs, to now saying he needs $8K (80% of total) to pay the manufacturer to make these magical graphene capacitors for him, likely coated in pixie dust (my guess).

    Woah, dude, you can’t do that! You can’t run a Kickstarter campaign claiming (or implying) one thing, and then completely changing the technology and what the risks are.

    Why no mention of the graphene or anything like that in the original Kickstarter? Why no mention of the challenge of getting the capacitor manufactured? Why no mention of what you really wanted the money for?

    And it gets funnier. Rather than provide the data to back up his capacity claim, he doubles down on the toy test:

    If anyone thinks a child’s toy is a poor platform to use to test a batteries endurance, think about it this way. Children’s toys aren’t made to be energy efficient. They drain batteries quickly and the toy manufacturer probably has some sort of an agreement with battery manufacturers saying, “Give us a cut and we’ll make sure people have to buy lots and lots of batteries.” On top of that, it also gives the battery a chance to take the physical abuse of a 1 year old throwing the toy around.

    Wow. No, sorry, that’s not how proper engineering tests are done on battery capacity. At the very least you need a defined load and to drain it to a specified voltage level, and get the resultant capacity graph.
    Ok, a toy test is actually done by battery manufactuers, but it’s not recommended and that is why there are ANSI standards to simulate these things, and good manufacturers follow these in the their datasheets.
    e.g. the standard “toy test” is 3.9ohm for 1hr/day

    But ok, your battery uses a post regulator which will have a flat discharge curve. But at the very least you can do a system discharge of a known current vs time and plot it anyway. Without that, your talk is just that, useless drivel.
    You are the one that came up with a figure of 1150mAh, tell us how you arrived at that figure?
    If you can’t do any of that then you have no business being in the battery business.

    So it is clear he either has no clue how to measure battery capacity, or doesn’t want to, or has done it and won’t release the results. So either clueless, hiding something, or running on wishful thinking.

    Not to mention actually getting a capacitor manufacturer to make custom batteries for you using your own supplied material. I find that very hard to believe, and most likely not for $8K to a guy in his garage. But ok, I’ll assume you can do that.

    This video of the charging and discharge testing is just SO CONVINCING!

    Then he doubles down again with extra arrogance:

    If, for some reason you don’t believe these claims, well, I invite you to pledge enough to get a battery and run it through your own rigorous tests. I’ve had 2 in one of my daughters toys for weeks now without recharging and it’s still going strong. Graphene capacitors haven’t yet reached the market, so, here is your chance to be one of the first.

    No dude, that’s not how it work, unless you are targeting gullible people the burden of proof is on you to show the data that your graphene capacitor has the stated capacity.
    Even more so that this is a custom capacitor using your own magic mix.
    You do actually have sample parts in hand right? Otherwise that should have been mentioned in the Risks & Challenges section.

    At the very least this campaign should be closed for false representation of the risks and what it was about.

    But the 2nd kicker is that even if this magic graphene capacitor can be produced, the best produced yet graphene based Lithium Ion Capacitors at Monash University is 12 times higher volumetric efficiency than the best existing Lithium Ion Supercaps.
    So even if this project used the cutting edge of graphene capacitor research in order to get increased capacity, it’s only going to get to maybe 420mAh at best (35mAh x 12). Still not close to the 1150mAh claimed.
    Not to mention that the graphene supercaps still aren’t production ready yet.
    But hey, a guy on kickstarter recons he can do it in his garage and by throwing $8K at a capacitor manufacturer. Yeah, no worries!

    There is also an Instructable with, well, bugger all info.

    The 3rd kicker, and the final nail in the coffin is the current required to charge the claimed 1150mAh battery. This is easy to calculate.
    1.15Ah * (3600 / 26 seconds) = 159.2A

    Please explain how you are going to charge your battery at 159A?
    This is getting beyond ridiculous. Anyone with any electronics engineering knowledge knows the technical challenges involved in charging anything at 160A, let alone a AA battery.

    Bottom line is this project stinks. It leads people into thinking it’s one thing (off-the-shelf cap) and then pulling a rabbit out the graphene hat when pressed on the details. And then refusing to provide any real world data. But most of all, the numbers simply don’t add up, not even close, it is demonstrably not going to happen.
    The force is not strong with this one.
    He’s too deep down the rabbit hole to admit he got it all horribly wrong.
    Stay clear, this project will not deliver.

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    • Harut Yeghshatov

      It would short out because of that extra strip, and it was way to bogus to even believe in the first place.

    • Pedram

      he also dident mention anything about the electronic circuit involved . he just showed a TO-220 soldered to a board and nothing else. event a simple/dumb 7805 needs a capacitor !

      • Poptart McJelly

        He also invented a new technology to give you perfect voltage without any filtering or nothing.

      • Shawn

        Take a look at the picture linked below and point out the TO-220 regulator. And also, I’m pretty sure those 2 big rectangular things are capacitors.

        http://www.imghack.se/215128

        • Pedram

          i meant the charger . on veroboard

          • Pedram

            oh you are the creator. a question for you : how on earth you are going to apply 160 amps to an AA battery.

            i don’t think you are a fraudulent(right word?) or anything. i think you just missed something in your calculations.

        • gregorr

          Shawn, I see no inductance on the PCB. Are you using a linear voltage regulator? Are you aware of the efficiency difference between a switching and a linear regulator?

    • http://www.socialjustice.ws gerwingr

      dreamers, turn out right or wrong, this dream is going wrong , :)

    • Armand Du Preez

      Guess this guy and the guy from Solar Roadways plays tennis at the same country club.

    • Paul

      He falls into that category,of super bull-shitter,reminds me of a time in the 60’s if you bought gold plated jack plugs for your stereo it would have amazing sound , lot’s of fools went for that one,including my Dad.

      • xdrone

        Don’t be so dismissive of the fact, gold plated jacks don’t oxidize. Hence, audio signal would be without any parasitic signals and trouble free. Haven’t you had a jack that kept gave one channel on your stereo Hi-Fi missing while a simple twist of the jack fixed the problem? All sound professionals take special precautions for their audio gear especially from oxidized jacks. As proof, my brother works as a sound technician and he confirms the gold plated jacks are a necessity in his profession. PS: computer boards do have gold plating on their PCBs where contacts are intended to be placed externally. Something tells me that you already know that, could you possibly have missed that fact? Surely not.

        • Cheater512

          So expensive gold plating is required to avoid a simple twist every 5 years or so? Mind you I’ve never had any issue with bare copper for my speakers btw – where the metal mates together can’t really oxidise easily.

          A Motherboard with signals running around ~3/4ghz is slightly different to a signal running at 24khz. Order of magnitude difference.

          • xDR1TeK

            Wrong.
            Surface area and capacitance of oxidized jacks have different time-constants. Please don’t ask me to get physical. But, if you suggest computer parts with gold plating are operating at 3/4 Ghz, that is only for the CPU, by the way, surface area of those pins are minimal compared to Jacks contact surface area, and shorter in length too. So you don’t have a job as a sound technician, big deal, but for those who do, they need it. For those that enjoy that kind of sound fidelity, they would.

            • Cheater512

              Show it on a scope or stop being an audiophool. Show a LCR reader on a old crusty jack and plug. The capacitance between them will be basically 0 pF.

              You can measure capacitance, resistance and other physical properties. Audiophiles tend not to use any of that.

              • xDR1TeK

                oh forget you.

    • tchicago

      how do you even manage to find these, Dave ;)

      • Guest

        Ah youv’e seen the stater of his workshop to lol

      • Paul

        Ah you’ve seen the state of his work shop to lol

      • xdrone

        Not easy, Internet dumpster dive, and I do not appreciate the other two responses before me. I believe Dave’s workplace is a role model for every engineer. Unless they think theirs is better, I dare them to cough up some pics. Have they the gizmos as well?

    • Nick

      Don’t know where to begin – at the very least, his argument for not using flow soldering doesn’t add up and the use of a an output regulator, presumably linear (with associated power loss/heat output) is bizarre – if it was buck/boost he’d have a bunch of EMI issues too..

    • Larry

      erm, let’s do some BASIC math. To pour around 1150mAhr back into a rechargeable battery in 26 seconds is goinig to require a charge current of 1.15 x 3600 / 26 or 160 Amps !!! No further questions (or interest) yer Honour.

      • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

        Ah, yeah, I completely forgot to mention that bit!

        • omgfire

          Why do you imply equal voltage for charge and discharge?

          • TT

            Yes, I was thinking the same. If you charge at, say 4,2 volts and discharge at 1,5, then the charging current would have to be 1,5/4,2 x 159= 57 Amps, assuming 100% efficiency.(As EEVblog apparently did). But still, the current would be ridiculously high.

            • omgfire

              I meant higher voltage. Electrolytic capacitors can use 150V and they can be charged fast, but theirs energy density is far away. Supercapacitors have low voltages, so some sort of assembly will be needed to achieve high voltage. Like A23 battery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A23-open-closed.jpg
              Anyway, I haven’t heard of supercap with energy density enough for 1.7Ah in sub AA size.

          • Kevin

            Good point, delivering a lower voltage to the load than the voltage the capacitor has been charged to could in fact be a way to increase the effective capacity. But that implies the use of a switching regulator or a regulated charge pump, which I highly doubt considering
            a) the look of the regulator board
            b) the amount of technical knowledge presented thus far and
            c) the fact that he refers to the capacitors on the board as filtering capacitors.
            Since he was reluctant to provide any further technical info, I am pretty sure it’s just a linear regulator, in which case there is no benefit in charging to a voltage higher than 1.5 V + the dropout voltage whatsoever.

    • Jerry Hubbard

      Dave,

      Please do some videos on Graphene use in electronics.

    • Zsola

      “I know there are improvements to be made that can be achieved when I get this project funded!” – If it is cheap, do the funding yourself! No need for Kickstarter for a nice prototype or even manufacturing in small quantities. (I do not believe how much money you can get with things like this.)

    • Han Solo

      This makes me never to want to bother with ANY kickstarter ever again. The fact this project is still allowed to continue puts far more stink on kickstarter than I bet they know. My guess is kickstarter will be one bug pile of stinking BS before long and they apparently do not listen to any of their users complaints.

      • http://joshuadance.com/ Joshua Dance

        Kickstarter doesn’t go through and test/verify/vet each project. You are buying something from someone on the internet. Do a little research, think about what could go wrong, and only back something because you like the idea and you don’t really care if you get the reward a year late.

        • conservativemind12

          Rubbish, miss-selling is illegal. It would undoubtedly break Kickstarter’s user terms as well.

      • xdrone

        I guess IEEE standardization is out of the window then. Hobbyists sometimes give engineers a bad name.

    • Shawn

      I didn’t add any pixie dust. I COMPLETELY forgot about the pixie dust! I didn’t divulge all the information from the start because I did not want the enormous influx of spam from every Tom, Dick and Harry, wanting me to use their company for this and for that. And as soon as I tell everyone, what happens? Dozens of messages per day, “Use us to process credit cards,” “Use us to have circuit boards made,” etc etc etc. I ever got a message from a graphite mine in Sri Lanka! I’ll get a test bed put together so I can put all of this to rest but seriously, it’s not hard to believe that someone with some intelligence could create something like this. It’s not cold fusion, it’s not a cure for cancer, it’s not a potion that makes you regrow hair, lose weight and become an astronaut at the same time. There’s no pixie dust, no hidden secrets and no deception whatsoever. Instead of bashing me, why don’t you contact me. You need more details? More proof? Just ask. Don’t tell me I’m just using a TO-220 regulator with no capacitors(as stated in a comment here), or that I’m claiming to get a perfect voltage with, “no filtering or nothing.” Because those that made those comments, apparently haven’t even looked at a picture.

      You don’t believe it, fine, don’t but don’t bash me in the process when you’ve not bothered to pursue just asking me for more details.

      • Vinay Shenoy

        *Cough*Snake Oil*Cough*

        Why don’t you actually prove how you arrived at the magical figure of 1150 mAh? And if it’s not a scam, why don’t you actually post it on Kickstarter publicly?

        • Shawn

          As I said in the above post. I’ll put together a test bed for it to prove it. Should have enough laying around to put together a constant current discharged.

          • http://www.wechat.com/ Olav

            Well to get the numbers 1150 mAh and under 30 seconds of charging (Which is in the TITLE of the Kickstarter) , you had to have tests. What were those tests?

            • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

              He just admitted that he hasn’t actually tested it yet!

              • Vinay Shenoy

                And the scammer just got funded. More than enough gullible people on Kickstarter. I’ve reported the project. Hopefully, if enough people report it, it will be taken down, but it’s unlikely.

                • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

                  Many people have reported it, but unfortunately it looks like Kickstarter is not listening.

          • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

            I’d love to see the video where you prove you can charge your battery at 159A to make 26 second charging possible.

      • http://www.wechat.com/ Olav

        You didn’t want every Tom, Dick and Harry spam but you sure do want their money.

      • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

        I didn’t ask you because the public needs to know *now* that this is BS before you have taken all their money. It is already clear to any technical person that you have not done the calculations or tests on this.
        *You* are the one that claimed a capacity of 1150mAh and *you* are taking people’s money *now* based on that fact.
        So *you* needed to prove that figure before you started taking people’s money, not after.

        So how did you arrive at the 1150mAh figure?
        Either tell us now or admit you don’t know.
        It is clear you don’t know because you are now saying you have to set up a test jig to prove it. So that implies you have not proven it before you started this thing.

        Also, explain how you are going to charge an 1150mAh battery in 26 seconds? Do you know how much current is required to do that? Have you done the calculations?

        If you can’t answer any of this then you had no right setting up this Kickstarter to begin with. You should pull this project down until such time as you can prove your claims. If you can prove your claims then I will happily support your project, but it must be done *before* you take people’s money, not after.

        I support you trying to develop this and graphene capacitors, but you can’t go around making wild demonstrably claims that can be easily checked by any technically competent person.

        It’s ok to admit you are wrong, really, no shame in that at all. It will only get worse when you take people’s money and then can’t deliver on your claims.

        But please, amaze us with your proof, really, I’m always happy to be corrected.

    • Shawn

      And also, a capacitor manufacturer is more than willing to do a small initial production run for a nominal fee to see how the market reacts. It wasn’t me making a single phone call to China and saying, “Hey, if I do this, will you do this?” Plenty of phone calls, emails and conference calls were involved in setting this up.

      • xdrone

        Friend, company staff members are always supposed to give positive responses. They welcome any opportunity to close their quarterly guidelines. Perhaps you placed optimism at the cost of following steps that every development engineer should follow. In any form or department of engineering, research and development do take methodical steps to complete a “proof of concept”. That is even before getting a completely working prototype. In the end, whether a concept is worth the market’s attention, you might get a realization and get a “turn-key solution”, that is the energy storage unit along with its charging elements and what not. Notice these terms I have just mentioned? These didn’t fall off a tree, they are hard facts on how to go around finding solutions. Finding a financier in some occasions where projects’ cost exceed the capability of casual engineer are needed, but still won’t be possible without a proof of concept or at least, in the very few number of occasions, a research report. And that will only happen if you had collaborative work done with few doctorates along with yourself, as a doctorate.

    • Geo Heath

      I feel that taxpayers are wasting their money on public education. At time when virtually everyone has a high school education and most have post-secondary, it appears to be for naught. Despite being armed with sufficient knowledge to quickly assess these claims as highly suspect – at best – there are a shocking number who will not even question the claims.

      The demonstrations are reminiscent of the flim-flam oil additive scams, only not well done.

      What is wrong with people’s BS detectors? They are needed more than ever in the age of the internet.

      Thanks Dave for airing this issue and debunking it using the correct analytical process – it illuminates the path for the ultra-gullible to take.

      • xdrone

        Hear hear, amen!!!

    • hdavis

      I’m just sticking with the potato salad guy.

    • vitor de miranda henrique

      I reported the project to kickstarter, if enough people do that I think there is maybe a change of kickstarter stopping that madness.

      • Max

        +1. Also, I love it how there’s nothing among the choices offered to report a project even remotely close to “BECAUSE IT’S OBVIOUSLY UTTER BS AND/OR A SCAM!”. Yay for Kickstarter, up to their usual high standards, somewhere a few feet below the bottom of the Marianas trench, a.k.a. “money does not smell”…

        • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

          Yes, the categories for reporting are very lacking.

    • Kevin

      Shawn, I really appreciate your enthusiasm in your little invention and your passion to turn it into a commercial product. However, there are several dubious points.
      First of all, I can only second Dave’s point in that any “data” you give is BS without at least some sort of standardized and documented testing procedure. Saying the thing works is one thing, actually giving numbers like that 1150 mAh figure is a different one. For that not to be complete BS, you actually need to “measure” something in a repeatable and reproducible manner.
      Secondly, before throwing out numbers like 1150 mAh in 30 s, please do the math and you will see how ridiculous that number is. Please don’t actually try to test it, as pushing 140 A through that AA size battery, its terminals and some homebrew charging circuit might turn quite ugly.
      Thirdly, please give some technical info on that 3.8 to 1.5 V converter. Is it a linear regulator, switch mode regulator, charge pump or something else? This might actually be a chance for you to regain at least a little bit of credibility.

    • Arto Pekkanen

      I think he is just a scammer. Nobody can be so stupid they could even believe this would work.

      • Vinay Shenoy

        Check the Kickstarter again. He got funded. It’s complete BS. And those people are probably gonna father the next generation. Humanity’s hope further reduces.

        • Arto Pekkanen

          … so much money thrown away every goddamn year. If just 10% of all the money these idiots and scammers get would go to NASA, I could move to another solar system to get outta this dump full of gullible retards :(

        • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

          Damn, reached it’s goal. I guess Kickstarter didn’t listen to the official complaints.

    • Arto Pekkanen

      I would have logged in and reported the project, but the goddamn Facebook login does not work in Google Chrome. I am feeling too lazy to give a damn about this stupid scam to attempt login some other way -.- Maybe later I will report … for now, I am just content knowing that the gullible simpletons who wasted money on this will be wiser in the future. I hope.

    • xdrone

      Dave, the datasheet mentioned has nominal capacitance rating in the Farads range, not mili or micro. is that right? for the LIC2540R3R8207 model, it shows 5 Amps charging per 1 second, also it states that this type of capacitor has extremely large capacitance.(about twice as large as conventional EDLC), meaning the typical industry’s Electrical double-layer capacitors (EDLC) which are widely available from 1 uF to 2.4 mF (I have one of those rated at 16V). Their claim of 200F rating is way off by perhaps a typing mistake having F rather than uF? I know electrolytic capacitors utilize an acid or base in their film separations, but having a different acid or base this time doesn’t mean that capacitance would improve much let alone by a factor of 100. In addition, a battery form factor should be much more space efficient in storing pressed compounds than a capacitor which is equipped with a large surface area for anode and cathode, hence the aim for larger capacitance but not at this 25mm diameter and 40 mm length which is definitely suitable for static energy buildup rather than ionic charge deposition, unless they are also milking every drop of milk from this cow. These are some of my interpretations of the datasheet, your affirmation is required.

      • Kevin

        xDR1TeK, I’m afraid you are mistaken in your take on the datasheet. Supercaps with a capacity of several Farads (no micro or milli) are very well available. In a small form factor these usually have only a low voltage rating of up to maybe 5.5 V, but they are quite widely used. One popular application being backup power for CMOS circuits. So I don’t see anything wrong with the datasheet.

        • xDR1TeK

          Well, is several Farads, as per your above mentioned text, in around the range of 200F? In the 1 or 2 Farads possibly, but could it be as mentioned in the datasheet?

          • Kevin

            Ok, looks like we got it sorted out :-) I share your confusion in that matter, as for everyday use capacitors with capacitance in the range of a few mF are considered huge and here we are talking about capacitance more than an order of magnitude higher.
            To close on this topic, let me just point out that super capacitors are not necessarily several capacitors in parallel, but it’s rather the type of electrolyte and the construction of the electrodes that are responsible for the extreme capacitance. But please don’t quote me on that because I am far from an expert in that field.

        • xDR1TeK

          Oh I just figured out what you mean by super capacitors, aren’t those a bunch of caps connected in parallel to form a power bank? the datasheet is about one cap.

        • xDR1TeK

          A quick search bumped up some caps in the 3000F range. Please ignore my comments.

    • xDR1TeK

      ehhh, in this little application note from Maxwell Technologies,
      Charging/discharging is in the seconds range (less then 10 seconds) and that from an
      example for a UPS.

      The math isn’t difficult from an engineering perspective, one can figure out the details. Example here shows current in the average of 289 Amps per 5 seconds charge or
      discharge for a system operating at nominal 56V and that can still operate at 25V.

      Adding to Dave’s point of view, there was no mention how to calculate Ah in comparison to Lithium ion batteries. If one takes the initiative and tries to compute Ah from
      289A(average) x 5s / 3600s = 0.4Ah. If that is so, then that monstrosity of a battery replacement serves only for 5 seconds and rated at only 0.4 Ah.
      Good enough to power several bright leds for an hour.

      Number of caps calculated turned out to be 23 x 1222F in this example.

      I would say, insanely massive in volume.

      Side note: one can choose to dissipate power at a lower current, 0.4Ah/xA)= h (hours of operation). Still the document doesn’t mention the durable limits for one capacitor (i.e. allowable max current for the capacitor).

      http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/docs/10073627.3_how_to_determine_the_appropriate_size.pdf

      Further reading oniine shows firm proof that such caps are suitable for “regenerative applications” only.

    • igor

      His capacity measurement *accurately* stopped at 1150mAh. This is a well designed battery!

    • Ecat Finland

      I have to admit, it does sound bullshit but… He did say that he drops voltage to 1.2V and drive circuit at that voltage. When charging he drives 3.7V which is 3 times higher voltage. If this even is possible scenario then the capacitor is 3 time more less mAH rating than 1200mH more like 400mAh. It is just when used as 1.2V the drive ability increases by 3 times. This is onlly possible explanation to be able to charge the capacitor in 30 secs and current usage for 26secs is 55A. Sounds more doable already.

      As I am engineer my self I rather doubt this tho.

    • assadollahi

      thanks for the great article and let’s forget about the kickstarter campain. just a question: the lithium ion capacitors seem to be real and buy-able technology. would it make sense to use them in hobbyist robotics? seems, they are quite light and could be used for UAVs, for example.

    • skyyyyy

      Shawn West has placed an update here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/posts/940207

      It still doesn’t address how he thinks he can charge a 1380 Farad capacitor to 3.8V in 26 seconds.

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    • xenonart

      There’s another update, only visible for backers… is anyone able to tell what it is about?

    • G.H. Gerger

      Reminds me of such stuff like “Cold Fusion”, “Free Energy”, “Tachyon Energy”, and other perpetua mobile. Shun the shamanes.

    • Maximus

      Hey thanks for the critique. What scares me is that his KS campaign almost doubled his goal. Did you share your observations with the KS Police?

    • Maximus

      Thanks for the critique; did you share your observations with the KickStarter Police? I’m concerned because his campaign raised over $18K when he only asked for $10K and as a professional project manager I completely understand how this is quickly going to fall apart.

    • Aaron Sulwer

      has anyone tried discussing this with the inventor? or are we just ranting? maybe the guy has some valid claims and just doesn’t know enough about electronic principles. step in and help the guy instead of shooting him down. most inventors have this problem people like u shooting down there ideas. have you invented anything or just to busy shooting down others ideas to have any of your own? his idea has promise even if his figures are off or embellished. why not help the guy out?

      • skyyyyy

        Well, looks like a backer just did try discussing with the “inventor” as you call him. He hung up, and refused to respond to his voicemail, according to the comments on the Kickstarter page.

        So, until you have real evidence that he did actually invent something that works as he claimed it did, I suggest it’s not advisable to label him in the same bucket as real inventors who actually invent.

    • skyyyyy

      ..And, as expected, the project has not delivered. See the latest post on KS, where one of the backers states “It would seem we can consider this one officially abandoned too. I called and he hung up on me as soon as I mentioned the project.”.

    • Vinay Shenoy

      Oh well, I guess it’s quite obvious it was a scam now , if you look at the latest comments.. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/comments

      Quoted: “It would seem we can consider this one officially abandoned too. I called and he hung up on me as soon as I mentioned the project. I also left Shawn a polite voice mail message, but he chose to not call me back.”

      • http://www.eevblog.com EEVblog

        He still can’t beat the laws of physics, who would have thought!

      • http://www.eevblog.com/ Dave Jones

        He still can’t beat the laws of physics, who would have thought!

        • Vinay Shenoy

          Really? I mean, someone with questionable qualifications and absolutely no scientific evidence should have been able to do what most of the brightest minds in the field haven’t been able to do…. Right? Right?

      • Amy Kono

        Let’s not be hasty. Maybe Shawn accidentally invented a lavender-scented time machine and is currently trapped in the past, where he is continuing work on his thought-powered George Foreman grill and Half-Grav Shoes (tagline “Half of Gravity for just Twice the Price”).

        • skyyyyy

          Are you saying the battery in his time machine died? I agree, we’re being too hasty. And maybe he didn’t hang up, for all we know maybe the battery in his phone died too. The guy can’t catch a break.

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