Author Topic: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview  (Read 71834 times)

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Offline santiniuk

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2013, 11:08:18 pm »
Well so much for my plans.  No time today really to play....

I did try the eagle  import facility. At first glance that looks superb.  It let me also convert some good eagle libraries into altium parts.  Impressed.

 

Offline grimmjaw

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2013, 08:42:51 am »
I have AD13 installed and 1 year subscribtion.
Do I need to pay for the upgrade to AD14?
 

Offline chris0822

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2013, 12:44:11 pm »
Quote
I have AD13 installed and 1 year subscribtion.
Do I need to pay for the upgrade to AD14?

You should be able to download the AD14 installer use your existing license file if you still have a current subscription.  I had to reactivate through the account interface in Altium, but it still worked fine.

Quote
I did try the eagle  import facility. At first glance that looks superb.  It let me also convert some good eagle libraries into altium parts.  Impressed.

What version of Eagle are your files?  I should see if I can upgrade my Eagle v5 files with the free version of eagle to import into Altium.  There are some libraries I have that would be useful to import.
 

Offline santiniuk

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2013, 01:08:08 pm »
I think the Altium importer is looking for V6 eagle files. It mentions that the free version of Eagle V6 can be used to save any Eagle 5 files back out as V6. I've tried that and it works fine.

The importer then kicks out the .sch, .pcb and and integrated library.

Hoping to give the flexible PCB a run out later.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2013, 01:18:12 pm »
so, they are luring eagle users into altium world? how ironic, i'm still waiting the "hobbiest entry level" edition.
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Offline grimmjaw

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2013, 02:53:31 pm »
Thanks       chris0822822 .
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2013, 03:59:48 pm »
up and running here. works fine.

i asked the question on the demo day yesterday . It is confirmed they will release a scaled down version specifically targeting the eagle users.
As to what will be stripped out : they would not tell. Target is early next year. And that's all they would disclose so far.

during the presentation they multiple times stated that altium is back at its core, and has been for the last 9 months  : PCB and schematic. other areas will still see development but the key focus is on PCb and schematic .
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Offline M. András

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2013, 04:56:59 pm »
wonder what will be in it actually. it would be good if up 6 layers for some more demaning stuffs and diff pairs etc for higher speed stuffs, footprint generators
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2013, 08:45:09 pm »
I wonder what all the hullabaloo is about regarding that flex pcb stuff. It seems they are touting this as "Oh lookey here, you must have this cool feature!". Is this the replacement of "must have everything FPGA!" ==> "must have flex!" or something? From various remarks out there on the internet (so it must be true!) I would think they would do better by putting more effort into better signal integrity tools as opposed to making flex thingies.

Or maybe I am just crazy and flex thingies really are important in their chosen market segment. More important than signal integrity tool apparently. Am I missing something, or is this just another installment of Rational Behaviour vs The Marketing Department?

 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #84 on: October 24, 2013, 08:46:24 am »
is it only me or it takes really that long to open DXP->Preferences page in AD14?

It takes 15sec. on my computer, no matter if i'm logged in/not logged in to Altium, with inet/no inet, with fw and av/no fw and av.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
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Offline enz

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #85 on: October 24, 2013, 03:33:16 pm »
...

It takes 15sec. on my computer, no matter if i'm logged in/not logged in to Altium, with inet/no inet, with fw and av/no fw and av.

It works for me. Opens nearly immediately.
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2013, 04:50:38 pm »
I have up to $499 waiting :) if they release a decent version.
 

Offline reagle

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2013, 05:01:06 pm »
Same here- currently "living" in Altium at work, but using DipTrace for my own designs. I'd love to only use one tool, but I need an assurance that my access to tools is not dependent on my employer. So a lower cost hobbyist seat for a home use would be awesome

Offline HWgeek

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2013, 03:03:23 pm »
Same here, living through the current employers Altium licensing.  We actually had to recently convert some old eagle sch/pcb project.  Not having used Eagle before, I found it to be...mmm... painful.   

I would have to have at least 4 layer functionality for my designs, a 6/8 would be ideal and I too would ante up around $500 for 8layer functionality.

/net rumors
Heck if they brought back the deal that I heard of back when, for $2-3K you got it all,  I might find a way to pony up the funds not be crippled.  But $5k and not have DDR2 matched length routing through resistors doesn't cut the mustard. 
/net rumors off

 

Offline maxseeley

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2013, 12:46:53 am »
I wonder what all the hullabaloo is about regarding that flex pcb stuff. It seems they are touting this as "Oh lookey here, you must have this cool feature!". Is this the replacement of "must have everything FPGA!" ==> "must have flex!" or something? From various remarks out there on the internet (so it must be true!) I would think they would do better by putting more effort into better signal integrity tools as opposed to making flex thingies.

Or maybe I am just crazy and flex thingies really are important in their chosen market segment. More important than signal integrity tool apparently. Am I missing something, or is this just another installment of Rational Behaviour vs The Marketing Department?

Rigid-flex support was the most requested new feature.  Supporting multiple stackups in a single PCB project is a very useful feature and was a pain to setup manually.  Usually involved creating a base stackup and then creating a drawing at the end of the project that outlined the different areas of the board. 

A lot of designs are moving to rigid-flex - just crack open your cell phone if you want proof.
 

Offline maxseeley

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2013, 01:11:39 am »
It is very disappointing.  :palm:

Instead of focusing on fixing and improving their core product (PCB design software) they are ignoring what engineers really need and focusing on the flashy, sexy stuff for their sales guys to show off.

Their PADs importer has been broken for years. Yes, it kind of, sort of works, but it creates a such a mess with phantom nets, missing nets, mis-sized and misplaced text, mis-sized pads, etc. Generally with so many hidden issues, that one is generally safer off redoing the artwork from scratch. Yet, converting PADs and OrCAD/Allegro customers is a far more lucrative endeavor than Eagle customers or hobbyists.

Their support for routing high speed parallel traces, such as DDR3, is buggy and awkward. It is very messy to do pad to pad length matching and there is no support for taking into account package delays. Both latest version 12 and version 13.3 report erroneous trace lengths. Everyone I've talked to either does this manually, trace segment by segment, or simply uses another tool for for boards with DDR3 memory.

Their support for automating the creation of complex symbols from FPGA constraints files is unusable. For some reason, they choose to ignore how today's boards with complex FPGAs are designed and what is really needed.

Their design rules checking is outdated.

Their signal integrity is a bad joke. I wouldn't expect a 3D solver, but at least a basic 2D solver for identifying crosstalk and impedance related issues.

These are the capabilities that today's board designers need and want. But instead, they give us:

Vaults -- to store our design databases in Asia. I'll keep my design data on a secure NAS behind a firewall.

MCAD -- cute, but anyone doing real 3D machining will use a real 3D CAD package such as SolidWorks.

FPGA tools -- to replace latest vendor provided IDEs, IP, and FPGA support with decade old FPGAs, proprietary, hobby/academic methodology, and buggy IP with no verification.

Embedded Software tools -- that only work with their Nanoboard based designs.

BOM integrated to distributors -- importing erroneous distributor parts data into you design and linking to broken web links, no thanks.

Extensive vault based symbols -- that are all autogenerated and generally unverified. I was lured to their parts symbols, only to find useless material. I'll stick to doing all symbols myself.

3D Viewing of Semirigid boards -- cute, but I doubt even 1% of customers would do semirigid boards, and of those perhaps .01% would rely on Altium for that.

Muzak while routing -- (unconfirmed).

I spend far more money each year on Altium than on the computer equipment. I really do want Altium Designer to be the ideal tool for PCB design. However, rather than seizing the opportunity to overtake the competition, they have grown complacent with their core product, neglecting it with overgrown bugs, and rather are chasing over the sexy show features.

Mentor has started to admit that their products have serious issues, and have started promising to get their development team back on track. Perhaps its time for Altium to do the same.

This post has multiple inaccuracies:

1.) Since the departure of their old CEO there has been a marked improvement in addressing issues with the core product.  Yes, the introduce new features, but these are features that have been requested by their users.  Support for rigid-flex was one of the most requested new features.

2.) The have made improvements to their high-speed capabilities in 14, but still have some work to do.

3.) I would agree that their signal integrity tool is a joke and in my opinion should be eliminated from the package.  There is no such thing as a simple signal integrity tool even if it is 2D.  Leave this task to a signal integrity tool.

4.) The Vaults - these are not in China.  They are hosted locally on servers that you as the user setup.  All hosting function for Altium in the USA are run on servers provided by Amazon based in the USA.  But again, you host your vault.  The vaults have had their problems and the roll-out was botched, but they are a very promising technology and something that Altium needs to implement.  Managing released documents and creating project snap-shots when these documents are released is very helpful.

5.) Rendering a PCB in 3D is incredibly useful.  Try integrating a PCB into a very tight mechanical package with out this.  In addition, viewing the PCB in 3D can help catch errors that you miss when viewing the PCB in 2D. 

6.) FPGA tools - except for some of the functions that relate to routing a PCB, the FPGA tool-suite should be eliminated from Altium.  That being said, I would not agree with some of your assessment.  Altium utilizes current vendor provided tools for a lot of the back-end functionality of the FPGA tools. 

7.) I have used the Supplier Links in Altium for a long time and have never once had a issue with a incorrect link.  You set the links, so if they are wrong that is your fault.   

8.)  The vault based components are not automatically generated.  There is a team at Altium that creates all the design content.  The content is accurate and is very good.  I have used it extensively and only once encountered an error.  I notified Altium and it was fixed within hours.  The error was a incorrect pin assignment. 

9.) Only 1% of their customers use Rigid-flex???  Open your cell phone, Ipod, computer and tell me if you find rigid-flex PCB's.

10.) How would you use a FPGA constraint file for creating a symbol?  A schematic symbol?  This doesn't even make sense - please explain?
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #91 on: November 23, 2013, 01:47:17 am »
9.) Only 1% of their customers use Rigid-flex???  Open your cell phone, Ipod, computer and tell me if you find rigid-flex PCB's.

How many seats of Altium do you think there are designing cell phones and Ipods? Making a million boards or one board it is still only one design. I would guess more like 10% of their customers do 10% of their designs on flex/rigid which makes 1% of designs.

I welcome the new ability to do complex layer stacks, it was a lacking area but I doubt it was the most requested new feature.
 

Offline maxseeley

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2013, 04:40:24 am »
9.) Only 1% of their customers use Rigid-flex???  Open your cell phone, Ipod, computer and tell me if you find rigid-flex PCB's.

How many seats of Altium do you think there are designing cell phones and Ipods? Making a million boards or one board it is still only one design. I would guess more like 10% of their customers do 10% of their designs on flex/rigid which makes 1% of designs.

I welcome the new ability to do complex layer stacks, it was a lacking area but I doubt it was the most requested new feature.

Please see attached.  It had the second most votes for features requested by registered altium users.  And if 10% of customers do Rigid-flex 10% of the time, that still translates to 10% of their customers needing this feature.  I would SPECULATE this percentage is closer to 25% and growing. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 04:42:17 am by maxseeley »
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2013, 05:17:53 am »
9.) Only 1% of their customers use Rigid-flex???  Open your cell phone, Ipod, computer and tell me if you find rigid-flex PCB's.

How many seats of Altium do you think there are designing cell phones and Ipods?
You would be amazed on what gets designed on altium... And there is plenty of flex in it...
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Offline reagle

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2013, 02:59:18 am »
Is anybody seeing more than the usual share of crashes (aka "please wait while I draw progress bar thing") with V14? It appears every time a new Altium release comes out, you need to wait till they fix a few bugs before using it. I tried switching to 14, lasted a day and went back to 13. Luckily files are still compatible between them..

Offline maxseeley

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2013, 06:59:40 am »
Altium 14 has been very stable for me.  In the past, crashes in Altium seem to be more prevalent when using files and libraries created in the previous version.  Libraries can also get corrupted which can cause major issues.  I started a new job around the time 14 came out so all my 14 files were created in 14.  This might be one of the reasons it is stable.

Is there a common thread between your crashes? 
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2013, 07:45:29 am »
Please see attached.  It had the second most votes for features requested by registered altium users.  And if 10% of customers do Rigid-flex 10% of the time, that still translates to 10% of their customers needing this feature.  I would SPECULATE this percentage is closer to 25% and growing.

These types of polls on the Altium forum are always skewed, due to the nature of the people who frequent the forum. The majority would be professional PCB designers who use the tool almost full time, and likely a companies dedicated PCB designer. That means that it's more likely these users are going to want a variety of advanced features that the average user doesn't much care much for or can get around because it's just a one-off project or something.

I would not complain about Altium's decision to add flex support though, as physical manufacturing features like this are important in a PCB tool.
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2013, 11:02:08 am »
Ive noticed 14 is a bigger memory hog than 13. Ive had a few crashes , mainly out of memory type. Then again... My pcbdoc files are like 100 meg ...

I need to move to 64 bit os or turn on the 3 gig boundary.

I started doing my first flex in 14 ( ive done flex before , what i mean is : i started using the flex capability in 14. )

Really cool.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2013, 12:03:14 pm »
Altium have just announced

"Team Configuration Center centralizes and deploys Altium Designer settings and preferences, and ensures a design team are all working from a standard set of document templates and output job formats."  and "Altium Vault Server 1.2".

Neither of which I have any interest in. They also mentioned AD 14.1 in passing which hopefully consists of more than just added support for the above.

Not having anything 'flex' to do at the moment I decided the other possible benefits of 14.0 were not worth the risk and haven't yet installed it to do any real work.

 
 

Offline maxseeley

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Re: Altium Designer 14 . sneak preview
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2013, 09:23:25 pm »
Altium have just announced

"Team Configuration Center centralizes and deploys Altium Designer settings and preferences, and ensures a design team are all working from a standard set of document templates and output job formats."  and "Altium Vault Server 1.2".

Neither of which I have any interest in. They also mentioned AD 14.1 in passing which hopefully consists of more than just added support for the above.

Not having anything 'flex' to do at the moment I decided the other possible benefits of 14.0 were not worth the risk and haven't yet installed it to do any real work.

Where did you get this info - can't find the announcement anywhere?  The download links for the vaults are not updated to 1.2
 


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