Altium free /low-end version - poll

[mikeselectricstuff]

It looks like the new Altium free/low-cost package is tied to online saving only.
Details in other thread.

[Nobody2]

Damn. Somehow the wrong answer got selected and I can't change it?

[Rigby]

If you want a poll to be unbiased, leave out everything after the "yes," "no," and "maybe."  I could think one thing but disagree with your "helpful" explanations.

[zapta]

#1 means 'with no useful download', right? I wouldn't mind saving to the cloud if I can get the data back in a useful format.

[Mechatrommer]

i voted #3: Only if there was a reasonable cost upgrade path to standalone operation, but.... learning from altium history i suspect there will be no "reasonable cost" for me, hence theoritically, it should get back to #1... No, not even for free, I wouldn' invest time learning something with this limitation.... to be more precise.... i would not invest time even 1 second on cloud based saving if there is no reasonable path to local saving standalone based... and they must quote the price even before i try, esp this cloud based. for standalone option i may try and download, if its good then i'll ask for quotation (i did this with alitum trial as well but the price surely unreasonable for me). this is my rule, no matter whats the name they are, not just "Altium".

[Bud]

The moment you save something on a cloud it is not yours anymore.

[EEVblog]

Yep, I think this poll isn't set up right, the options are kinda conflicting and biased.
In any case the result is already split down the middle. Half won't touch it, half would consider it. Half is probably a good enough market share.

[_Sin]

Yep, I think this poll isn't set up right, the options are kinda conflicting and biased.
In any case the result is already split down the middle. Half won't touch it, half would consider it. Half is probably a good enough market share.

Right now, bias aside, >80% won't touch it if there isn't at least a paid option for external files.

So if they're running with the cloud-only plan, that's <20% of the market remaining before they start. Some of those might try it out and not like the cloud aspect after using it. And even if they don't mind that, they still need to be convinced to switch from what they're using now. Any friction with other aspects of the package (component libraries, etc.) and that comes down some more.

Is 10%-20% enough for them? It seems like a lot of effort to go to, when they could do something truly disruptive that appeals to the *whole* market.

Making an unpopular push into some new business model is the sort of thing you might get away with if you're the current market leader and/or you have some kind of monopoly. It doesn't feel like the kind of thing you should do if you're trying to steal market away from existing products that do things in a way people already like.

[Rigby]

That 80% figure is not indicative of general populace whatsoever.  If I'm wrong, cite your source, and the source cannot be this forum alone.  Say that you pulled that out of the air or provide a source for the information.  If you think this poll is providing you credible data in any way you are incorrect.  Polls necessarily approximate results, and the phrasing of the questions and responses must be neutral to even hope to approach a semi-accurate result.

We're a group of highly vocal individuals and we're susceptible to "group think" here, which may or may not follow through to our decisions outside this forum.  What we say in here doesn't always match our behavior "out there."

I don't think that many will care that the files live online.  They won't even be managed as files, most likely; the project or library as a whole will be online, and individual files won't be exposed.  You'll work on the project, you'll share the project, you'll make the library public or private, etc.

I would posit that most of us would care a lot more about getting the job done, and a lot less about the technical implementation of the tools used.  If I am an independent contractor doing work for money, and the contract does not mandate a tool, then the tool I use will have no bearing on my paycheck.  Things that have little or no bearing on the paycheck will not be huge factors in the decision on the tool to use.

Even hobbyists just want to get the project done, using tools they are comfortable with.  I don't see how cloud storage has anything to do with this at all,

Altium: make the tool easy and pleasant to use and you'll see adoption rise.  Simple as that.

[free_electron]

my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

[DerekG]

my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

There is discussion that you may be able to "hold" the file by shutting Windows down in "Hibernate mode".

But I for one have lost interest in this proposed version & I suspect that 90% of Eagle users have too.

I just see it as another "Fail" on Altium's part.

Am I surprised? Based on Altium's direction this past 10 to 14 years, no I'm not surprised. Sort of expected really.

[Rigby]

my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

That's hard to say, unless you have the alpha/beta, too.  Even GMail can run offline, in a browser.  Full windows apps can pretty much do anything they like in terms of local caching. 

My point is that cloud-only doesn't necessarily mean online-only.

[snoopy]

my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

There is discussion that you may be able to "hold" the file by shutting Windows down in "Hibernate mode".

But I for one have lost interest in this proposed version & I suspect that 90% of Eagle users have too.

I just see it as another "Fail" on Altium's part.

Am I surprised? Based on Altium's direction this past 10 to 14 years, no I'm not surprised. Sort of expected really.

probably some MBA dickhead who has no idea about CAD/CAM has come up with the idea 

[nctnico]

Yes let's get our MBA heads out of our asses and stick them in the clouds!
'The cloud' is nice for online backups (if you dare) and sharing data but that's about it.

[Rigby]

There's more than that, it's a service.  Not a big differentiation to an individual, but to a group or to a division, paying for services can make a lot more sense than running them fully in-house.

The cloud exists because the market has dictated a need for it, and a very significant willingness to pay for those services.  Doesn't matter much what you, or I, or anyone else thinks.

[nixfu]

Repeat from the other thread before I saw the poll topic:

Cloud only storage shows they still don't have a clue about the market they think they are going for.

It's standard practice to share your eagle files with people in the open hardware, maker, arduino communities so that they can take your design and make it better, change the form factor, maybe swap a part, take out feature they don't want etc.  and then ship that new board off to oshpark or whoever to get some made. 

Only being able to share gerbers will NOT cut it, people will just go back to eagle or kicad after being asked a few times for the "eagle files please". 

They are welcome to go all cloud and think they have a genius marketing buzzword but the reality is it will cause them to totally miss their target market.

[Fsck]

my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

that's my major hobbyist gripe.

[kxenos]

For what it's worth, I think there WILL be a local copy of the files. As a programmer myself I wouldn't think there would be a decent desktop application that wouldn't keep local copies of uploaded files. Even more so while my files have the additional importance of being intellectual work of some kind. My major concern is the privacy of my work. I wouldn't want anyone to have access to my work without my consent. If this requirement is guarantied I wouldn't mind to have my personal projects in the cloud. Google has all my emails for more than 5 years and nothing terribly wrong has happened. And even if they told me that my projects will be hosted for 10 years and then will be lost I wouldn't mind because I could save the gerber files and maybe screenshots of the schematic or whatever. Having the opportunity to work with a world-class application and learn how to use it instead of having to deal with Kicad bugs is a no-brainer to me. Right now in Kicad I have to create almost all the parts that I want, I have to double-check or modify all transistor, mosfet and regulator footprints, I have to connect with a line all vias if I want to do via stitching, I have to manually adjust the text size and weight of all the parts on a board and whenever I refresh the netlist my changes are lost and every unnamed net get's renamed so my track width rules don't apply anymore.
Hell yeah, cloud storage is fine by me! Just my 2c

[Wilksey]

They are calling it Circuit Maker.

I have an old version of software called Circuit Maker 2000 with Trax Maker 2000 PCB design, didn't Altium buy this software or owned it or something? I know it disappeared pretty quickly!

Coincidence or just going back to old names?

[DerekG]

They are calling it Circuit Maker.

I have an old version of software called Circuit Maker 2000 with Trax Maker 2000 PCB design, didn't Altium buy this software or owned it or something? I know it disappeared pretty quickly!

Coincidence or just going back to old names?

You can find a history lesson here:

(click on my post immediately above)

[Wilksey]

Yes, I know the history I have them, but why are they bringing back the old names?
Plus the screenshot of the GUI reminds me that of AutoTrax 2020.

[DerekG]

Plus the screenshot of the GUI reminds me that of AutoTrax 2020.

Me too. I'm wondering if the bugs in AutoTRAX DEX 2020 have not been fixed this year because Iliya Kovac (the Developer of AutoTRAX) has now been employed by Altium.

[Rigby]

Yes, I know the history I have them, but why are they bringing back the old names?
Plus the screenshot of the GUI reminds me that of AutoTrax 2020.

Why not bring back the old name?  It's just sitting there unused, and they probably already have it trademarked.  Maybe it was just the best name available to them.  Maybe it was easier to reuse an old product name.  Who knows?  More importantly, who cares?  A name is a name and nothing more.

[miguelvp]

This poll is void since it's been established that:

4.).  Files are cached so you can work locally.

From:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/free-altium-is-coming/msg517246/#msg517246

4 layers 10cm square (True area) for $29 USD annually seems like a bargain as well. (free 2 layers I would think)

I'm actually looking forward to this.

[_Sin]

This poll is void since it's been established that:

4.).  Files are cached so you can work locally.

From:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/free-altium-is-coming/msg517246/#msg517246

4 layers 10cm square (True area) for $29 USD annually seems like a bargain as well. (free 2 layers I would think)

I'm actually looking forward to this.

Not sure that files being 'cached' entirely satisfies everyone's concerns. I'm very much still on the fence until I see how it works in practice. There was also mention of other features/requirements that imply offline use will be crippled. I'm following this with great interest but I'm not getting too excited yet.