Author Topic: What changed in Altium during the past decade? (Read 14673 times)

nctnico · « **on:** August 27, 2015, 06:20:26 pm »

I'm thinking about getting a new CAD package for creating PCBs and doing simulation. The PCB package I'm using is no longer updated and has some annoying bugs. I know Altium is popular so I think it is wise to at least consider it. The last time I have used Altium is a decade ago and back then I found it hard to use because of the many options and some things where not possible/obvious (like changing the ugly&hard to read font in the symbols). I'm wondering how much has changed in the past decade to determine whether it is sensible to put time & effort into evaluating the current version of Altium.

I know the question is very generic so I appreciate any input...

dave_k · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2015, 12:28:56 pm »

Well I never bothered upgrading from Altium 6 .. not sure if anything "useful" was ever added since then.

ajb · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:49:25 pm »

I haven't been using Altium for that long, but you can definitely change the symbol fonts and their defaults (under "default primitives" in preferences). The only things you can't change in schematics AFAIK are the power port symbols themselves. Speaking of symbols, database libraries are pretty great, and allow extremely easy and efficient reuse of common symbols and footprints.

The native 3D is extremely helpful, and the new SolidWorks collaboration plugin looks interesting, if that's important to you (it's an additional paid license, though). Other than that, I'm not sure what else is actually new since 10 years ago

marshallh · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2015, 06:14:55 pm »

It's still 32bit singlethreaded. UI is very clean and organized, but routing can get laggy. I have a 4.6ghz AMD FX4350 w/ 16gb ram, AMD 7870 graphics.

That's my main gripe, it's 2015 and the software still gets difficult/frustrating to use on moderately complex boards. I haven't used Allegro but I'd bet that at least scales better.

nctnico · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2015, 07:07:23 pm »

How do you mean 'routing can get laggy'? Does it respond slow when routing traces on complex boards?

T3sl4co1l · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:11:11 pm »

They finally revamped the pour rebuild code. Two years ago. Now it's a minor enough nuisance that you can leave "auto repour" turned on, except for large jobs. It's still nowhere near the speed and scaling of e.g. Ultiboard's...

Tim

nctnico · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:45:43 pm »

@T3sl4co1l: IIRC you also use Allegro. If so then how does the drawing speed of Allegro compare to Altium?

T3sl4co1l · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:30:51 pm »

Nah, I use Altium primarily.

I've used PADS before, if that's moderately related, but it's pretty crap at drawing, I suspect mainly because its pours are constructed from myriad traces, and it doesn't have a shortcut to draw (let alone construct) a proper fill as such. Also, being old and probably not using acceleration (e.g. DirectDraw), or even up-to-date GDI objects (which might be expected to be better optimized).

Altium's drawing speed is highly adapter dependent. The machine I use at work has dual (Intel and Nvidia) graphics inside, selectable by program; Altium is sketchy until you switch it over, then it's quick as anything. My desktop (with a GTX550Ti) hardly notices a thing. I've seen it work well on Intel graphics sometimes, and poorly for other things too. Sadly, it's one thing that's really not made for anything else... but if you're going to the trouble of buying Altium, you can surely afford a $100 graphics card, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Tim

nctnico · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:56:15 pm »

Whatever I buy needs to run in a virtual machine (I'm not thinking I'd find anything decent which will run on Linux)...

T3sl4co1l · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:58:51 pm »

Hmm, haven't heard how well Altium does in VM. (I mean, if the VM is to spec, it should be fine, but you never know. And maybe it's slow for other reasons, too.)

Is KiCAD on Linux? I forget.

Tim

Christopher · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2015, 01:52:53 pm »

Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 28, 2015, 11:58:51 pm

Is KiCAD on Linux? I forget.

Of course. The open source hippie nutjobs wouldn't have it any other way!

Spikee · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2015, 01:59:59 pm »

It would be best to get a old licence from like 09 or something. Not much has changed in the 13/14 version.
15 has some new features that are nice to have but this is not strictly needed.

Just uses ctrl + S once every 5 minutes and the possible bugs are not really an issue.

Gribo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2015, 09:43:28 am »

I use Altium 13, and compared to version 6.x it crashes less often, on the same machine. There were lots of minor issues fixed, but in my opinion, there are no 'must have' features to justify the upgrade price.

nctnico · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:02:25 am »

Crashes less often doesn't sound right to me. OK my current CAD package crashes as well but instead of fixing the causes they put in a lot of effort to prevent loss of work.

Bassman59 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2015, 01:53:42 am »

Quote from: Spikee on August 29, 2015, 01:59:59 pm

Just uses ctrl + S once every 5 minutes and the possible bugs are not really an issue.

I do ctrl+s after every change!

jd · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:42:20 am »

Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 28, 2015, 11:58:51 pm

Hmm, haven't heard how well Altium does in VM. (I mean, if the VM is to spec, it should be fine, but you never know. And maybe it's slow for other reasons, too.)

I tried fairly hard but could not get it to run on Virtualbox under linux. It requires "shader model 3" support which VB still does not provide. Same story with Wine, although the wine site application database indicates some successes I could not get it to work at all.

(I would love to be proven wrong here.)

Quote

Is KiCAD on Linux? I forget.
Tim

Yes it is on Linux, OS X and Windows. It is available in 32- and 64-bit. It is written in C++ (and graphics seems lightning fast compared to Altium).

There is a new official release immanent. Looks like they have just revamped their site and there are now proper builds of the installers. http://kicad-pcb.org/

tszaboo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:58:57 am »

Quote from: nctnico on August 30, 2015, 10:02:25 am

Crashes less often doesn't sound right to me. OK my current CAD package crashes as well but instead of fixing the causes they put in a lot of effort to prevent loss of work.

It doesnt really crash for me, but it starts giving you "please wait a moment", "catastrophic failure", "error 0x7556443" and such messages, then it is time to save and restart.
Overall there were only small, but noticeable changes in the last few years. The 3D is a big selling point, if you have to work with the mech. team.
I had once a screwed up gerber file with version 15, so there they still need to improve, although the issue was smaller than with a previous version. It is still a potential for a huge loss of money.
I'm not sure if I would ever run it on a VM though.

dave_k · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2015, 09:02:24 am »

Quote from: Gribo on August 30, 2015, 09:43:28 am

I use Altium 13, and compared to version 6.x it crashes less often, on the same machine. There were lots of minor issues fixed, but in my opinion, there are no 'must have' features to justify the upgrade price.

Interesting .. have never experienced any crashes with my install of 6.x ..

Gribo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:16:48 am »

It really depends on the graphic drivers, which got improved over the last decade.

nctnico · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:52:26 am »

Quote from: jd on August 31, 2015, 08:42:20 am

Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 28, 2015, 11:58:51 pm
Hmm, haven't heard how well Altium does in VM. (I mean, if the VM is to spec, it should be fine, but you never know. And maybe it's slow for other reasons, too.)
I tried fairly hard but could not get it to run on Virtualbox under linux. It requires "shader model 3" support which VB still does not provide. Same story with Wine, although the wine site application database indicates some successes I could not get it to work at all.

OK, so Altium is a no-go then. Screwing up Gerber files doesn't sound nice either. It happened to me too once but it was because I ignored a DRC error.

T3sl4co1l · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2015, 03:25:31 pm »

I had found a bug in Summer 09's (and several later versions, because, you know, they're "insanely busy" with things, and can't get to bugs immediately...right?) PDF output, where arcs and traces don't line up as they do on screen. I don't think I've ever seen a Gerber output bug. Just remember to repour polygons religiously, and include a full DRC in the OutJob list to double-check.

Tim

tszaboo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2015, 03:52:20 pm »

Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2015, 11:52:26 am

OK, so Altium is a no-go then. Screwing up Gerber files doesn't sound nice either. It happened to me too once but it was because I ignored a DRC error.

It included some random features from other layers to the top soldermask layer. We made number of boards (there were only minor changes from the previous revision). Good thing it didn't screw up an inner layer on a board or anything crucial, so the boards could be still used.
Of course it was only after assembly we saw it.

The moral of the story: check gerber every time with diligence (used to do it) and dont let management send a board into production without prototype.

Spikee · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2015, 04:07:45 pm »

AD15 with solid-works extension and octopart integration is a nice improvement tho.
Makes weird pcb shapes easier to make

enz · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:58:13 pm »

Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2015, 11:52:26 am

Quote from: jd on August 31, 2015, 08:42:20 am
Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 28, 2015, 11:58:51 pm
Hmm, haven't heard how well Altium does in VM. (I mean, if the VM is to spec, it should be fine, but you never know. And maybe it's slow for other reasons, too.)
I tried fairly hard but could not get it to run on Virtualbox under linux. It requires "shader model 3" support which VB still does not provide. Same story with Wine, although the wine site application database indicates some successes I could not get it to work at all.
OK, so Altium is a no-go then. Screwing up Gerber files doesn't sound nice either. It happened to me too once but it was because I ignored a DRC error.

I don't know about a linux host. But on a Windows 7 pro 64bit host with win8.1 guest via virtualbox altium runs, including 3d view.

Regards,
Martin

jd · « **Reply #24 on:** September 01, 2015, 07:51:48 am »

Thanks, that's good to know. I guess the guest is able to share the 3D graphics under windows. Has ANYONE got Altium working usably under linux?

Under Windows host did you notice any performance issues compared to native? It might be nice to run AD in a VM, isolate it from getting messed up by other programs and one could easily roll back after changing something etc.

Thanks

John


EEVblog Main Site	EEVblog on Youtube	EEVblog on Twitter	EEVblog on Facebook	EEVblog on Odysee

Author Topic: What changed in Altium during the past decade? (Read 14673 times)

Share me