1 Page Resume Rule - Does it apply to engineers?

[geratheg]

I've been reading about Resume tips and found that a lot of suggestions were to keep the resume just 1 page long or it will be thrown away. However, I think that they were talking about resumes for jobs that are not related to science fields such as engineering.

Should a resume for an engineering position be limited to 1 page?

What are your suggestions about resume length?
How long did you make your resume before you got hired?
What other suggestions do you have that will strengthen an engineering resume so that an employer won't automatically throw it out?
What works and doesn't work?

[kolonelkadat]

Its less to do with the type of job and more to do with the level of the job.
If you are going for a top level/grey beard job, and your resume is 2 pages, no problem.
If youre after an entry level/mid level job, and your resume is 2 pages, its going in the trash. You dont have 2 pages worth of experience. If you did, you wouldnt be after a low level position. If you DO then you are over qualified.

Also keep in mind that Greg from HR is not an engineer and knows nothing about science and has 1000 other resumes on his desk; meanwhile, Senior Engineer Sally is busy and doesnt have time to read your 2 pages of nonsense.

What has worked for me is a very nice 1 page resume layed out by a professional graphic designer. Its still very professional, but it stands out from all those made from a Word template.

[geratheg]

Thank you for the tips.

As a student, I don't have work experience but have several relevant projects and awards to list which take up about 1.5 pages.

Also, where can I find a sample of what a resume with a nice professional layout looks like?
Before, I've only ever made the standard layout resumes made in Word because those are the ones I was introduced to. I certainly wouldn't mind an upgrade.

[tggzzz]

Page 1: personal statement, buzzwords, career/tech competentcies.
Page 2: career overview
Page 3+: selected career achievements justifying statements on page 1 and 2

Always worked for me, when I was experienced.

Software filters satisfied by P1 and P2
HR-droids satisfied by P1 and P2, couldn't understand P3+
Engineers liked P3+ since they could see P1,2 weren't bullshit, they could relate to it, and it gave them something to discuss during interview

[Yansi]

I hope you aren't mixing a CV/resume with a motivation letter. I can't imagine a student with two pages of award or eperience 

http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/curriculumvitae/f/cvresume.htm (also interesting to know)

[tggzzz]

I hope you aren't mixing a CV/resume with a motivation letter. I can't imagine a student with two pages of award or eperience 

I did. My daughter did. It isn't that difficult.

When she first tried out her (1 page) CV on an agent before university, he initially disbelieved she could have had that experience.

But then some of her experiences while at school (not uni) still enable her to "dine out" and stop boastful conversations in their track. Example: "you do realise that aircraft don't fall out of the sky when their engines stop?" resulted in the questioner being neatly skewered by "yes, I was a solo glider pilot before I was allowed to start driving a car". And as for the dreary HR-droid question "describe a situation when you though your life was in danger", she could and did make grown men blanche and swallow hard

[geratheg]

Thanks for the responses.

I have never heard of a CV before this thread. Seems like something for PhD students when the want to get hired in industry.

[Electro Fan]

You can find links on the web that will outline the differences between a resume and CV but the two terms are often used interchangeably.  For a first job I wouldn't worry too much about resume vs. CV or the length of the document - if it all fits on one 1 page, fine; if you need a 2nd page (or possibly more) it's not the end of the world (but if the first page isn't impactful it's possible readers won't get to the 2nd page). 

The key is not the length but the substance.  You want to show not only what you have been doing (where you worked and where you studied) and what you know (areas of study/knowledge) and what you can do (your skills) but what you have accomplished.  So in addition to titles, duties and responsibilities or other descriptions of the work undertaken it's good to list key results and achievements.  Sometimes these are individual accomplishments and sometimes these are contributions to team accomplishments but employers want to see if you are likely to just be marching in place or making good things happen.

[zapta]

And as for the dreary HR-droid question "describe a situation when you though your life was in danger", she could and did make grown men blanche and swallow hard

That's a sign off bad parenting

[ivaylo]

You are right to be confused. I get to read all resumes for technical positions which our company gets and I'd say they split 50/50 (2 pagers vs 3+). I see good candidates from both groups. Do what makes sense to you. If you are working with a recruiter it's a legitimate question to ask which school they belong to. Which country is this for, btw?

[Tomorokoshi]

I've had to review resumes of various lengths for various levels. What and why some get through HR and some don't is a mystery not solvable by engineers. There's too much illogic involved.

For entry-level jobs, I've seen a lot of "experience" sections that list about 30 different technical keywords from the industry. When asked, I get answers like, "Oh, we did that last year in the Junior lab." or something.

As people get more experience, they realize more about what they know and don't know, and so become more sparing in the keyword lists.

Whatever the level, there is some reasonable amount of strategy to crafting the resume to fit the specifics of the job, the company, the industry, etc. There is no point if the interview doesn't happen.

Once in, if you get past the HR screening, for me anyway show-and-tell outweighs the resume. A few items turns the conversation from being interrogated by them to allowing you to lead a fair amount of the conversation. They will see what they like, and ignore what doesn't apply.

For an engineering job, types of show-and-tell could be:
- A homebrew hardware project. Doesn't matter if it works or not. What problems did you have? What technologies were used?
- A homebrew software project. Maybe it worked with the hardware project.
- Schematics and other documentation from the homebrew project.
- Examples from a previous employer. This can be tricky if the interviewer is hung-up on if you got the example legitimately. If possible, a letter from the previous employer stating the acceptability of bringing in an old revision PCB or circuit board might help. Me? I don't care. Some might.

If you are given tests, realize that those interviewing you know the test inside and out. They've been through it in other interviews a few times and know the traps. Ask questions when it seems appropriate.

Know the basics. If electronics, know how to analyze an op-amp and some common uses. If software, know the basic syntax of the language you expect to be using.

Be on time but not too early. The engineer is probably not looking forward to interviews anyway, because it will just set the schedule back even more.

Have your resume get reviewed by several people you know both in and out of the engineering industry.

[tggzzz]

I've had to review resumes of various lengths for various levels. What and why some get through HR and some don't is a mystery not solvable by engineers. There's too much illogic involved.

I've been in a company where the engineers explicitly forbade HR from discarding CVs, because we discovered the HR-droids were discarding interesting people.

For entry-level jobs, I've seen a lot of "experience" sections that list about 30 different technical keywords from the industry. When asked, I get answers like, "Oh, we did that last year in the Junior lab." or something.
As people get more experience, they realize more about what they know and don't know, and so become more sparing in the keyword lists.

I've used the technique of marking experience as either "core serious" keywords, or "have used when I found it necessary" keywords. That indicates I am flexible and can choose to use a hammer for nails and a screwdriver for screws.

If you are given tests, realize that those interviewing you know the test inside and out. They've been through it in other interviews a few times and know the traps. Ask questions when it seems appropriate.

Asking questions has several benefits: it shows you know what you don't know, you don't rush in with inappropriate solutions, you know how to elicit what's important to the customer, it buys you time while you think, and it helps you get a solid answer.

[EEVblog]

I've been in a company where the engineers explicitly forbade HR from discarding CVs, because we discovered the HR-droids were discarding interesting people.

I always did that and demanded that they give me all of them. Of course being nice about it and making them think I think they are doing a useful job.
In reality I'd just mix the piles together and ignore what they did, because it was always invariably not what we wanted. In fact it seemed that HR seemed to finely tuned Dick Magnets, because the dicks always seems to be the ones they'd recommended 

[Psi]

It totally depends on the country and whats normal.

My CV a few years out of Uni was 3 pages

If you want to be sure you get an interview, make your resume as 2 sheets of 1mm FR4 PCB with ENIG and black soldermask  and post it to the company.
You can be damn sure every engineer at the company will read it. 

The disadvantage is A4/letter sized PCBs aren't cheap (~$100). But if you like the job and really want an interview...

(no, i didnt do my CV like this, was just an idea)

[tron9000]

Mine was 2 pages long for my current job, but obviously I left out all the positions that weren't relevant experience. But that still made it over 2 pages, so I tweaked the margins to make it fit!

[JuKu]

You don't have to list everything. Mine reads "several awards" and "20 patents", but I don't see a point listing each.

[tggzzz]

You don't have to list everything. Mine reads "several awards" and "20 patents", but I don't see a point listing each.

Very true, especially as the only purpose of a CV is to get an interview. Tease them into giving you an interview!

[geratheg]

More interesting responses. For those who are curious which country I'm from: USA.