ActiveHDL (Student Edition)

[pmamatsis]

Hello everyone,
   I am a complete beginner in FPGA development (my previous experience is with Arduino) and i wanted to ask a question...i wanted to start my self-study using the ActiveHDL (Student edition) and Verilog language (which is similar to C which i like!)...what are the limits of this software ? I mean as "Student Edition" will i be able to use it for 'normal' designs or the limitations are quite small ?

Best regards and thank you in advance,
Panos.

[danadak]

I searched their site, could not find license limitations for student version.


Contact them thru their support and ask that question.


Regards, Dana.

[rstofer]

Right off the bat, simulation isn't hardware.  It's just a graphical illusion of what might happen were the logic actually synthesized.  You might guess that I haven't spent a lot of time with the simulator.  There are open source vesions of an HDL simulator.

I'm only interested in implementation on real hardware.  So, were it me, I would get one of the Xilinx based Artix boards which includes a license coupon for the Design version of Vivado, Xilinx's latest development platform.  I would look at the Digilent Basys 3 or the Arty as both come with coupons allowing Vivado to be licensed.  There is also a WebPack version of Vivado but I don't know which features are enabled.

http://store.digilentinc.com/fpga-programmable-logic/by-technology/

Now you can actually implement your designs as well as simulate them.  In addition, the ILA (Internal Logic Analyzer) core can be added to your project and you can probe real hardware.

You could also download the WebPack version of Vivado (no coupon needed) and see if the simulator is included.  At a minimum, you will gain the advantage of working with a manufacturer's platform.

[tggzzz]

Verilog language (which is similar to C which i like!)...what are the limits of this software ?

Verilog has a similar syntax to C, but the semantics and the the way you use it are completely different. If you "program" hardware (using Verilog/VHDL/HiLo/PALASM/CUPL/etc) the same way you "program" a computer, then either your designs will not work or they will be very suboptimal.

[rstofer]

Right!  It's kind of hard to wrap your head around the fact that everything is happening in parallel.  The code may read top-to-bottom but it doesn't synthesize that way.

There are tutorials all over the Internet. 

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-verilog-and-vhdl/

The author believes that Verilog is easier to learn.  So how come, after 12 years of messing around with FPGAs (on a very part time basis), I still don't 'get' Verilog.  For me, VHDL makes all the sense in the world.  Then again, I use C but I like Pascal, always have.

[pmamatsis]

I searched their site, could not find license limitations for student version.


Contact them thru their support and ask that question.


Regards, Dana.

Hi @Dana,
   yes I have searched through Aldec site and I couldn't find any limitations that's why I was asking. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing anything that was going to be considered illegal by the company. Thank you so much for your reply.

Best regards,
Panos.

[pmamatsis]

Right off the bat, simulation isn't hardware.  It's just a graphical illusion of what might happen were the logic actually synthesized.  You might guess that I haven't spent a lot of time with the simulator.  There are open source vesions of an HDL simulator.

I'm only interested in implementation on real hardware.  So, were it me, I would get one of the Xilinx based Artix boards which includes a license coupon for the Design version of Vivado, Xilinx's latest development platform.  I would look at the Digilent Basys 3 or the Arty as both come with coupons allowing Vivado to be licensed.  There is also a WebPack version of Vivado but I don't know which features are enabled.

http://store.digilentinc.com/fpga-programmable-logic/by-technology/

Now you can actually implement your designs as well as simulate them.  In addition, the ILA (Internal Logic Analyzer) core can be added to your project and you can probe real hardware.

You could also download the WebPack version of Vivado (no coupon needed) and see if the simulator is included.  At a minimum, you will gain the advantage of working with a manufacturer's platform.

Hi @rstofer,
   you are correct from your point of view. Currently I am using Icarus Verilog along with GTKWave and I was thinking of using something more professional. For me learning FPGA programming is a hobby. Honestly I don't believe that I am going to be even close to any of you people in knowledge and proficiency! About a development board... I have already purchased a Cyclone V board from Terasic but I feel so stupid that I don't know "how" to start with it!

That's why my idea was to start with a simulator and work my way up to the "actual" hardware. Honestly I am feeling really stupid just by looking at my board!!!

Since you believe that it's better to use the actual hardware I will do just that! I will start putting my designs on the actual FPGA. Thank you for your reply.

Best regards,
Panos.

[pmamatsis]

Verilog language (which is similar to C which i like!)...what are the limits of this software ?

Verilog has a similar syntax to C, but the semantics and the the way you use it are completely different. If you "program" hardware (using Verilog/VHDL/HiLo/PALASM/CUPL/etc) the same way you "program" a computer, then either your designs will not work or they will be very suboptimal.

Hi @tggzzz,
   I have also bought some books about Verilog language. Yes, I have understood that Verilog is looking like C but FPGA programming is nothing like a computer program. My background is software engineering that's why I am trying really hard to understand this beast!!!
Thank you for your time.

Best regards,
Panos.

[pmamatsis]

Right!  It's kind of hard to wrap your head around the fact that everything is happening in parallel.  The code may read top-to-bottom but it doesn't synthesize that way.

There are tutorials all over the Internet. 

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-verilog-and-vhdl/

The author believes that Verilog is easier to learn.  So how come, after 12 years of messing around with FPGAs (on a very part time basis), I still don't 'get' Verilog.  For me, VHDL makes all the sense in the world.  Then again, I use C but I like Pascal, always have.

Hi @rstofer,
   yes!!! That was one of the things that made me keep my mouth open in owe quite long time!!! This "parallel" made me literally lose my sleep a couple of nights in order to fully understand what was happening and how this "parallel" works! As I told in one of my earlier posts I am just a senior software engineer and the FPGA programming is a really, really serious hobby of mine!

I will continue with Verilog because I have already buy some books but at some point (when I can stand on my feet) I will definitely be giving VHDL a spin! From what I have read you can use any of the two languages with Walters's Quarts software.

I would really like to thank all of you people for your replies and feedback. If you have any more suggestions or feedback...please fire away! I will be around with my questions to come...please bear with me!!!

Best regards,
Panos.

[rstofer]

OK, you have a new programming language or IDE.  What's the first code you write?  Yup, "Hello World!"  It has always been that way.  Nobody really knows why...

The first real FPGA program you write will blink an LED.  Same idea...

You bring in the clock on a pin, divide it with a fairly wide counter (you're dividing by 50 million for a 100 MHz crystal) and use the high order bit to drive the LED which you bring out on a pin.  But here's the thing:  A lot of stuff has to work just to blink an IDE.  You need a board, you need to create the pin mapping file (whatever it is called), you need to write a few lines of code for the divider and input/output and then you hope your IDE will create a bitfile and send it to the board.

That's why boards like the Arty will have a bunch of switches and LEDs.  The Basys 3 is even better in my view.  But it is more expensive...

The other day, we were talking about Numato boards like:
http://numato.com/mimas-v2-spartan-6-fpga-development-board-with-ddr-sdram/

The Spartan 6 can use the older software Xilinx WebPack 14.7.  If you follow along at Numato, they have a terrific tutorial for that board.
https://docs.numato.com/knowledge/learning-fpga-verilog-beginners-guide-part-1-introduction/

Assuming you get 14.7 installed and licensed (free), the tutorial shows every single step required to get started.  Pretty nice.

I don't have the Numato board but for the price, I would certainly consider it.  I have several Digilent boards and have been quite happy with their products.

FWIW, WebPack ISE will accept Verilog, VHDL or schematic entry.  Vivado will accept Verilog or VHDL but I'm not sure about schematic entry.  That was pretty useless anyway (for me).

[pmamatsis]

OK, you have a new programming language or IDE.  What's the first code you write?  Yup, "Hello World!"  It has always been that way.  Nobody really knows why...

The first real FPGA program you write will blink an LED.  Same idea...

You bring in the clock on a pin, divide it with a fairly wide counter (you're dividing by 50 million for a 100 MHz crystal) and use the high order bit to drive the LED which you bring out on a pin.  But here's the thing:  A lot of stuff has to work just to blink an IDE.  You need a board, you need to create the pin mapping file (whatever it is called), you need to write a few lines of code for the divider and input/output and then you hope your IDE will create a bitfile and send it to the board.

That's why boards like the Arty will have a bunch of switches and LEDs.  The Basys 3 is even better in my view.  But it is more expensive...

The other day, we were talking about Numato boards like:
http://numato.com/mimas-v2-spartan-6-fpga-development-board-with-ddr-sdram/

The Spartan 6 can use the older software Xilinx WebPack 14.7.  If you follow along at Numato, they have a terrific tutorial for that board.
https://docs.numato.com/knowledge/learning-fpga-verilog-beginners-guide-part-1-introduction/

Assuming you get 14.7 installed and licensed (free), the tutorial shows every single step required to get started.  Pretty nice.

I don't have the Numato board but for the price, I would certainly consider it.  I have several Digilent boards and have been quite happy with their products.

FWIW, WebPack ISE will accept Verilog, VHDL or schematic entry.  Vivado will accept Verilog or VHDL but I'm not sure about schematic entry.  That was pretty useless anyway (for me).

Hi @rstofer,
   OK I will be doing as suggested. I just haven't thought that the first kind of program I had written on Arduino (blinking LEDs) will also be a good testing for an FPGA board! Thank you for your reply.

Best regards,
Panos.