Agilent or Fluke?

[alm]

I didn't mean to imply that the prices aren't a rip-off, just that it's mainly the companies screwing the customers, not the government.

[EEVblog]

Thanks Alm.  Glad, or hope this is so, nevertheless VAT excluded, just comparing Farnell's prices to tequipment:

For the 87V, its GBP 325 + tax = £379.53.

That's about $480 US, $570 with tax, at the current exchange rate, and no S&H yet.

S&H Free:
Tequipment = $380.
Amazon = $314.

If you order anything through Amazon, remember to use the link on my page! ;-)

Dave.

[orbiter]

Wish I was in the US sometimes. The Fluke 289 at Amazon.com works out at £50 cheaper over there than here in the UK Mind due they don't call it 'Rip Off Britain' for nothing.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

Metex offers one year, and sells some pretty crappy products, so I wouldn't buy anything they make unseen.

Well ,  You are the only one so far who called Metex as crap brand.
Thats an serious  accusation ..  

If you have any proofs , just share them with all .

If not swallow your pride , and stay silent .  

And I am saying all this , because METEX are the major top seller in Greece .
And the choice of the true Professionals .
http://www.imetex.com/

Simple as that .    

[Kiriakos-GR]

Further, whatever warranty is in your possession regardless of policy change is in effect from the time of purchase, but these are laws in the USA not in Greece.  The Greek Fluke, if there is such a dealer, needn't honor the warranty if they have a separate price and support structure for local distributor and you bought it in the US.

First , I do not think that any seller has the right to add the discontinued tag on the Fluke web site.
The company does that , when ever it likes ..  

Second , any Fluke division ,  will just say to the customer that this is one discontinued product,
Because they .. had choose so , and they will say , that there in no further support.

Third,  there is warranty coverage .
If the product are still fresh , and on the selfs ,
no one has anything to worry about .
But even the day of the purchase , its on the calendar of the days , that the product are active.

If I buy one new sealed Fluke 87-5 at 2020 , and expect 7 years warranty , I must be a lunatic !!  

And last about the Fluke EU  distribution network ,
Headquarters in Holland ,  distributors everywhere  at list three major ones in Greece.
Service centers ....  None  ..  The one listed are inactive .

You have to send the meter to Holland ...  you have to ask parts from Holland ..

And I am asking !! What would be the reputation of Fluke , If they had one service center in New York ,
and 360 millions of Americans , was hopping to have support ..

Big breath ...

I like to be totally honest , and I think that even so , with the Internet and all the power that our communication offers , plus the assist of ebay ,  and other marketing channels ,
we do not feel like to be in a jail or something.

If some one has a problem , " with or with out"  the help of the manufacturer, it will find one solution.

All that I nag about , are that I wish  the " human face " of all those companies ,
to was  more  " human " .  
Every one had started to hide this days, behind papers and disclaimers ,
and this bothers me allot.

There are many decent players worldwide , and if they all grow and create better distribution networks,
and service centers ,  it will be a benefit for all .  

 

 

 
  

[orbiter]

Just to keep you guys updated, In the end I went for the Agilent U1252B. Woo-hoo what a meter

One very disappointing thing though, when the meter arrived I couldn't wait to try the datalogging features, so I immediatetly downloaded the software from Agilent (no the meter doesn't come with the software either .) Anyway.. I installed the software on Windows 7 x64bit only to be presented with an error on first run. After a little searching I found that the software doesn't work with Windows 7 And not just the x64 bit version either, It doesn work with Windows 7 at all

The problem for me is.. I've updated all my computers to run on Windows 7 x64, and even in compatibility mode the logging software doesn't work

Poor show Agilent.. Very poor show indeed!



orb

[alm]

I would bug Agilent support about this, they should fix that soon, or at least offer a workaround. This is not what you should expect from an Agilent product. Shame on them!

[orbiter]

The wheels are in motion alm. I emailed them as soon as I found out about this and will continue to do so. It's my own fault for not checking I guess but I assumed a company like Agilent would have have software that supported the latest operating systems, especially as windows 7 and 7 x64 have been around for amost a year now.

This poorly written bit of information is available from Agilents website on the FAQ regarding the datalogging software....

Question.. Does the Agilent GUI Data Logger Software work on Window Vista and Windows 7 operating system?

Answer.. Yes. The Agilent GUI Data Logger Software will able to run under Windows Vista 32-bit. Windows 7 is not supported …

orb

[squeezee]

Yeah it's a bit dodgy that 4 years after windows vista they don't have a 64-bit compatible application. Also since it's a .NET 2.0+ app there really is no (good) excuse either.

Of course most likely it's just a new interface built on top of some nasty old code/libraries which were used for their previous meters. (falls into the not-a-good-excuse category)

Can't blame the driver as even the included one is 64-bit already.

One way to use their software might be to virtualize the application. (if you have Win 7 pro or higher)

[orbiter]

One way to use their software might be to virtualize the application. (if you have Win 7 pro or higher)

I have Windows 7 Ultimate x64 bit squeeze. Could I virtualize the Agilent software using my currect x64bit operating system, and if so how would I go about it please as I've never done that before? Would I need something like VMware ThinApp?

Regards

orb

[ThunderSqueak]

Often, you can get software to work by installing it by right clicking the installation program and selecting "run as administrator", this allows it to install the drivers into the proper locations. Then do the same for the actual application. Also try running it in compatibility mode (right click -> properties -> compatability mode and then select a supported OS)

  Since you are running windows 7 ultimate (this is a free option for pro or higher) you can also try their virtual xp mode option. go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx     Not the best option, but sometimes it works when compatibility mode will not.

Another option would be to dual boot.  

[squeezee]

You use Virtual PC, it's called XP mode and lets you run applications hosted inside the VM while appearing as a normal app on the desktop.

edit: beat by ThunderSqueak

[ThunderSqueak]

You use Virtual PC, it's called XP mode and lets you run applications hosted inside the VM while appearing as a normal app on the desktop.

edit: beat by ThunderSqueak

HA HA I WIN!!!!  

[orbiter]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, however I installed xp mode successfuly but to no avail. The Agilent software still won't run. I actually thought it maybe a bad download so I downloaded it again but still no go. Might be a x64 bit issue. Can't wait to hear what Agilent have to say hopefully tomorrow.

[ThunderSqueak]

I decided to give the software a go, I am running windows 7 ultimate x64, I downloaded the agilent software package and installed the vista driver with no issues then I installed the data logging software.  No issues doing a standard install.   I then ran the program with no issues by right clicking the "Agilent GUI Data Logger" software icon, and selecting "run as administrator"  after about 20 seconds the software started up and runs happily.  It seems the software sets up some variables that if you do not run it as administrator the first time it cannot set. 

After the first run as administrator, the software appeared to startup normally after that. 

Machine this is running on:

2.0Ghz AMD x64 bit dual core
4gigs ram
windows 7 ultimate x64
8200M Nvidia Graphics card

[orbiter]

I decided to give the software a go, I am running windows 7 ultimate x64, I downloaded the agilent software package and installed the vista driver with no issues then I installed the data logging software.  No issues doing a standard install.   I then ran the program with no issues by right clicking the "Agilent GUI Data Logger" software icon, and selecting "run as administrator"  after about 20 seconds the software started up and runs happily.  It seems the software sets up some variables that if you do not run it as administrator the first time it cannot set.  

After the first run as administrator, the software appeared to startup normally after that.  

Machine this is running on:

2.0Ghz AMD x64 bit dual core
4gigs ram
windows 7 ultimate x64
8200M Nvidia Graphics card

Thanks ThunderSqueak, It's seems the Agilent software may have been updated. Their website went down late last night then re-appeared around an hour later. Following the downtime the logging software dates seem to have changed from */*/2009 to 22/3/2010. In fact the initial download page shows a date of 14/7/2010. I have just downloaded the software again and tried it on my laptop which also runs Windiws 7 ultimate x64 and yes, like you say it works just fine, so I'll try it again later on my main system.

I'm made up that it's working on one system at least so I can view the logs

Thanks again mate

orb

[saturation]

Congratulations on your new DMM.  Can you give us your review of its capabilities, and check the accuracy of its readings?

[orbiter]

Thanks saturation.

I've not got any real accurate equipment I can use to test it against really as I only do electronics for my hobby, and I'm far from very experienced at present. The Agilent is going to be my main test meter though and by that I mean I'll be using it when I'm not 100% sure or need to double check any readings against my other meters, even though themselves are not bad ones. My main day to day meter is an Extech EX330 which fine and I also have a Voltcraft VC920 which seems almost as accurate as the Agilent. The Agilent has however shown up my other meters already though as regards capacitance readings, the others meters are quite slow in comparison. The Agilent virtualy bangs the readings straight up on to the display.

The build quality is awesome, I've even tried Dave's twist test and the thing doesn't budge at all. A quick look inside the meter shows a slightly different board than the one Dave had in that there is now an isolation slot and the front panel has a plastic blast shield that fits through that slot....



Also the soldering problem which Dave highlighted gladly hasn't affected all meters as mine shows no sign of bad joints, although one of the screws holding the board in does look as though it's been overtightened with an air tool or something as the head of one of the screws looks a bit rounded.

Regarding the battery rattling in it's compartment, mine was suffering the same issue. All it would have taken was for Agilent to insert a second small piece of rubber or sponge inside the compartment to eliminate this, however it's easy enough to sort out. I just put a few little sticky pads at the base of the compartment which does the job just fine.

If anybody tries this though.. Just don't make the pads too thick, as they'll put excessive pressure on the battery door.



orb

[alm]

I wouldn't be worried about accuracy, especially since they give you a calibration certificate. I find it very unlikely that Agilent would have troubles calibrating a 4.5 digit meter. Plus you would need calibrated equipment with a higher accuracy to verify. Things like battery life, usability issues, durability and long-term stability are much more interesting in my opinion, although long-term stability would be hard to verify without proper equipment.

[orbiter]

I wouldn't be worried about accuracy, especially since they give you a calibration certificate. I find it very unlikely that Agilent would have troubles calibrating a 4.5 digit meter. Plus you would need calibrated equipment with a higher accuracy to verify. Things like battery life, usability issues, durability and long-term stability are much more interesting in my opinion, although long-term stability would be hard to verify without proper equipment.

I'm not concerned with the meters accuracy alm my friend, I'm sure the meter is just fine, I was just replying to saturations request for a review, so I've posted my findings as to what I have discovered as of now. If anybody would like anymore info or anything regarding this model of the Agilent just let me know and I'll test it out.

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

Regards

orb

[slburris]

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

In the first photo, what's up with the Agilent logo in the silkscreen?  I see their
starburst design. but the "A", "g", and "e" appear to be missing.


Scott

[orbiter]

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

In the first photo, what's up with the Agilent logo in the silkscreen?  I see their
starburst design. but the "A", "g", and "e" appear to be missing.


Scott

Probably just the sticker didn't take or something I guess. I was wondering if I was going to find the A,G and E inside the case somewhere when I opened it up

orb

[ThunderSqueak]

Thanks ThunderSqueak, It's seems the Agilent software may have been updated. Their website went down late last night then re-appeared around an hour later. Following the downtime the logging software dates seem to have changed from */*/2009 to 22/3/2010. In fact the initial download page shows a date of 14/7/2010. I have just downloaded the software again and tried it on my laptop which also runs Windiws 7 ultimate x64 and yes, like you say it works just fine, so I'll try it again later on my main system.

I'm made up that it's working on one system at least so I can view the logs

Thanks again mate

orb

Glad it worked out for you    

[EEVblog]

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

The OLED display is brilliant, no pun intended.

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

Agilent need to redesign it. The 9V battery solution sucks. Luckily they offer the LCD versions as well.

Dave.

[saturation]

This is one thing I dislike about Agilent's DMM line made apparent by dissection and Dave's usability testing, they don't seem to be thinking thoroughly and miss such engineering things that make a difference, they put a nifty OLED display that is underpowered and well, practically useless in sunlight,  fashion skins and their PCB work is a bit haphazard .. but not sure it matters in overall functionality or safety over the pristine Fluke engineering.  However, given costs Agilent is very cost effective, but Fluke is what you buy expecting it to last for life.

Instead of a 9V NiMH with 250mAH, a DC-DC converter powered by AA NiMH will provide almost 8x the power since AA are typically 2000mAH, that would push the battery life past 300H easily and yet they didn't.  

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

The OLED display is brilliant, no pun intended.

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

Agilent need to redesign it. The 9V battery solution sucks. Luckily they offer the LCD versions as well.

Dave.