Agilent or Fluke?

[orbiter]

OK fellas... Which would be your choice between the Agilent U1252B and the Fluke 287 & 289 multimeters, I have the option of any and price is not an issue, so which would you go for and why?

Personaly I'm leaning towards the Agilent at the moment mainly because it looks a little more modern and I don't particularly like the idea of the 6 battery setup in the Fluke. I won't be wanting the Agilent OLED version as the battery life is not good at all on that model. As far as I can tell there's not really much difference in features and specs although but if build quality is beter on the fluke I guess that would be something to look into.

What's the consensus of opinion then fellas?

Cheers

orb  

[alm]

I think Dave reviewed both (a close relative of the Agilent), did you watch those? I believe both have some unique features. I'd guess that the build quality of the Fluke is better, but have never seen a handheld Agilent DMM up close. I remember the Agilent DMM (at least the -A version that Dave reviewed) had some annoying quirks, but had some cool features and specs. I would probably go for the Fluke unless the Agilent has some specific spec/feature that convinced me, but I don't think you'll go wrong buying either.

[saturation]

Without a second thought about price, the Fluke 289.  If you need data capture, the Fluke lets you see data status in the field, its more like a low bandwidth hand held scope over a DMM.  The Agilent is more like a DMM but requires docking software to see captured data.

Measurement spec wise, and reputation wise, I'd say ~ par but the Fluke is overall better spec'd. 

But major issues for each DMM:

Agilent battery life on any of the 1200 series DMM is under 70 hours, and worse, up to 8 hours, which is unacceptably low. 

The hulking 289 does 100 h, and 200h in sleep mode while engaging data capture, but the thing is huge as DMMs go. 

[orbiter]

I think Dave reviewed both (a close relative of the Agilent), did you watch those? I believe both have some unique features. I'd guess that the build quality of the Fluke is better, but have never seen a handheld Agilent DMM up close. I remember the Agilent DMM (at least the -A version that Dave reviewed) had some annoying quirks, but had some cool features and specs. I would probably go for the Fluke unless the Agilent has some specific spec/feature that convinced me, but I don't think you'll go wrong buying either.

Thanks alm,

Yes I've seen Dave's clips, very interesting. Wasn't too impressed by the dry joint on the Agilent though but I'll put that down to being a one off. The build quality is the slight niggle for me really as I've never had such good meters before so would be disappointed if I found that Agilent was poor, however I can't see that being the case really and would have thought that like you say, neither meter would be a bad choice.

Cheers

orb

Without a second thought about price, the Fluke 289.  If you need data capture, the Fluke lets you see data status in the field, its more like a low bandwidth hand held scope over a DMM.  The Agilent is more like a DMM but requires docking software to see captured data.

Measurement spec wise, and reputation wise, I'd say ~ par but the Fluke is overall better spec'd. 

But major issues for each DMM:

Agilent battery life on any of the 1200 series DMM is under 70 hours, and worse, up to 8 hours, which is unacceptably low. 

The hulking 289 does 100 h, and 200h in sleep mode while engaging data capture, but the thing is huge as DMMs go. 

Thanks Saturation,

Thinking about it I can't see the live data capture features of the Fluke being beneficial to me really, although it
may be a nice thing to have. The thing is that I've always got access to a PC so viewing logged data wouldn't be a problem for me.
Good point on the physical size aspect too as space is one thing I don't have much off so I'll check that out.

Cheers

orb

[saturation]

you're welcome.  Just keep in mind, and I hate to say it, but beware Agilent trending towards trendy gimmicks in DMM.  I posted elsewhere they have a promo with fashion faceplates for one of their series of DMMs.



In this series, the OLED display reads gimmicky.  While it does read nicely in dark surroundings, its unreadable in sunlight.  The fact that OLED constantly requires an active light emission makes this entire series of questionable practicality compared to what typical reflective LCD DMMs do.  I think OLED is better suited to bench DMMs if basic cheap 7 segment LEDs don't suffice.

[orbiter]

you're welcome.  Just keep in mind, and I hate to say it, but beware Agilent trending towards gimmicks in DMM.  I posted elsewhere they have a promo with fashion faceplates for one of their series of DMMs.

In this series, the OLED display is gimmicky.  While it does read nicely in dark surroundings, its unreadable in sunlight.  The fact that OLED constantly requires an active light emission makes this entire series of questionable practicality compared to what typical transmissive LCD DMMs do.

Yea I've just been looking at those faceplates. Not a good idea I don't think, especially on a professional piece of equipment. Always makes me wonder why they didn't spend those wasted few £'s on making the main product better.

I wouldn't even consider the OLED display my friend, the battery life is just not good enough. I think I am right in thinking that it is only the U125 '3' models that use the OLED. The model I would be considering is the U125 '2' which uses a normal type display and has a 70 hr battery life using the rechargable. I think it can use standard 9v batteries too which would probably last longer than the rechargable one.

orb

[EEVblog]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

[orbiter]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

Thanks for your input Dave, much appreciated. Yes the battery life thing is a pain really on both meters, but especially the OLED (U1253) versions. Although as I've mentioned previously, If I went for the Agilent I'd opt for the U1252B which uses a none OLED display. At least with that version battery life would be a bit more bearable and perhaps slightly cheaper overall to run than the Fluke.

I'll give both meters a few more days thought though before making a final decision.

Cheers

orb

[EEVblog]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

Thanks for your input Dave, much appreciated. Yes the battery life thing is a pain really on both meters, but especially the OLED (U1253) versions. Although as I've mentioned previously, If I went for the Agilent I'd opt for the U1252B which uses a none OLED display. At least with that version battery life would be a bit more bearable and perhaps slightly cheaper overall to run than the Fluke.

I'll give both meters a few more days thought though before making a final decision.

Cheers

orb

Yes, the OLED display is for those with a specific need, and of course is completely useless outdoors.
It's a beautiful display but the LCD version would be much more preferable for most uses.
The Fluke has that lifetime warranty vs 3 years too.

Dave.

[Kiriakos-GR]

The Fluke lifetime warranty ... its just seven  years Max ... under special conditions.

For more details ... Fluke web site .. or direct email ..

[lhc]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minumum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

[EEVblog]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minumum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

I've heard of people still getting them fixed for free after very long periods of time.
Oh, and apparently Fluke also have excellent spare parts support for a long time (never used it myself though).

Dave.

[McPete]

If I may suggest this; Unless you need the extra features of the 289, you're not getting any better specifications from it over the 287. The 289 strikes me as much more of a field-based meter, for people working with cable runs and VSD motors. Nice, but a bit of a waste for most electronics applications.

I may be sounding like a broken record here, but if you want a datalogging meter, check out Yokogawa DMMs too- Teqipment carry them, and they're priced pretty sharply. I'm definitely leaning toward one when I buy my next DMM.

[orbiter]

If I may suggest this; Unless you need the extra features of the 289, you're not getting any better specifications from it over the 287. The 289 strikes me as much more of a field-based meter, for people working with cable runs and VSD motors. Nice, but a bit of a waste for most electronics applications.

I may be sounding like a broken record here, but if you want a datalogging meter, check out Yokogawa DMMs too- Teqipment carry them, and they're priced pretty sharply. I'm definitely leaning toward one when I buy my next DMM.

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Fluke-289-True-rms-Digital-Logging-Multimeter-/200489449925?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eae1a39c5

[EEVblog]

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

[orbiter]

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

Yea I thought that too Dave but it's £100 cheaper than everywhere else and it's making me very sceptical.

orb

[saturation]

That's a lot of money for an eBay purchase, I would be skeptical and very careful, even if the item is legitimate.  The seller does have a good rep, and a posted address, so you can verify who they are.

How can a new DMM have batteries installed?  They often aren't, they remain wrapped in a case for the user to install.

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

Yea I thought that too Dave but it's £100 cheaper than everywhere else and it's making me very sceptical.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minimum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

Well this is an sensitive matter , and  has an value only if it is printed in paper and signed .
Every year the CEO board of those company s , they adjust their policy , by their will .

If you like to stay informed , you should read the very latest statements of them !!  

By the latest disclaimer of them ( posted at the Fluke web site) ,   they  drop the support to Max 7 years , so to lower the expenses of maintaining - storing parts in their warehouse ,  and use the money in the development of new products .

Personally , an such a policy finds me totally against as consumer,
Thats why I will never buy an Fluke meter at full price, from the official channel.

When I buy something today , I pay the price premium , so to also buy the support for it !!
If any Fluke, wishes to use my money for other tasks ,  they will not go to get any money from me ,
simple as that .  
 
The sponsors of any R&D by Fluke ,  are their stock market investors , not me.
  

  

 

[alm]

Almost all test equipment vendors (including Agilent and Tektronix) are like that nowadays, can you name a test equipment manufacturer that offers longer warranty than the at least ten years that Fluke offers? You are obviously free to spend your money however you like, but it's not like there are a lot of better alternatives. I'd rather give money to Fluke or Agilent than to a company that only makes cheap clones and does hardly any R&D of their own.

Usually the warranty conditions that were in effect at the time of the sale apply, it's very rare for companies not to honor these, especially for someone like Fluke who have a reputation to uphold. Do you have any documented cases where Fluke failed to honor the original warranty because they later changed the terms?

[orbiter]

Thanks guys. I'm definately going to skip that cheap Fluke 289 from ebay. I'd rather spend the extra cash and get a meter from a reputable company than get ripped off. Don't get me wrong the guy may be a perfectly reasonable seller but it just looks too good to be true, and that normally means it is.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

but it's not like there are a lot of better alternatives

They do , they do .... If you live in France , you will get an Metex , they do have plenty of support.
If you live in Germany , you can have plenty of support at Metrawatt's
 
But unfortunately we are limited by our borders ...  Internet its the only vehicle that eliminates borders 
Thats why it called as an virtual world . 
 

[alm]

I just checked Gossen-Metrawatt, they offer three year warranty on their DMM's. Metex offers one year, and sells some pretty crappy products, so I wouldn't buy anything they make unseen. I couldn't find anything about spare parts support. I'd expect Gossen-Metrawatt to have a pretty good spare parts support, but not sure how long after it's discontinued. Given the price, I doubt that Metex sells any spare parts.

But this is off-topic, since the orb just asked about Agilent or Fluke, and I doubt we'll agree on this, since you seem to have something against US companies, and prefer cheaper (in every way) Asian brands, so this will be my last post on this topic in this thread.

[saturation]

In the US, most of us get discounts off list price and get a new product with all the trimmings.  Most educational or volume discounts are 10-50% of list price.  With these prices, a new Fluke is not as much as a used but not so old one off eBay, for products still in production.  Your best eBay deals are products off production or oldies but goodies.  Often those list price is just to give the purchaser something to use when making a rough budget.

The persons left out in the cold are the small shops or self proprietor, they may not find a good price if not for places like tequipment.net.

As for your comment on warranty, I think Alm has said it best.

In the US, a warranty needn't be signed and the document must be distributed with the product, not to honor it is consider fraud.  Further, whatever warranty is in your possession regardless of policy change is in effect from the time of purchase, but these are laws in the USA not in Greece.  The Greek Fluke, if there is such a dealer, needn't honor the warranty if they have a separate price and support structure for local distributor and you bought it in the US.

Its also clear the lifetime Fluke warranty is 7 years after the product has ceased production, but not less than 10 years from purchase. That is probably the best warranty I know for DMMs.  The 87V is a unique DMM, as its been around for so long, longer than all other DMMs currently sold, I think, and I still say its the best general purpose DMM made.

The 289 is a US made Fluke, while the Agilent in question here is made by the Malaysian Agilent factory.  Not a big problem, but as Dave showed, there is just a touch of quality issues with the Agilent compared to a Fluke.  So for these DMMs, its clear who is better made, the question is more features and price.

Finally, things are different outside the USA.  The choices and prices are different, so it maybe cheaper to buy a Gossen, which I think is the only DMM, the Xtra being equal or better than the 87V.  It may be more cost effective to buy this DMM in EU, because I read Fluke prices seem unusually high, many times higher than list prices in the USA, which suggests some protectionism since the US dollar is weaker than the pound or Euro.

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minimum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

Well this is an sensitive matter , and  has an value only if it is printed in paper and signed .
Every year the CEO board of those company s , they adjust their policy , by their will .

If you like to stay informed , you should read the very latest statements of them !! 

By the latest disclaimer of them ( posted at the Fluke web site) ,   they  drop the support to Max 7 years , so to lower the expenses of maintaining - storing parts in their warehouse ,  and use the money in the development of new products .

Personally , an such a policy finds me totally against as consumer,
Thats why I will never buy an Fluke meter at full price, from the official channel.

When I buy something today , I pay the price premium , so to also buy the support for it !!
If any Fluke, wishes to use my money for other tasks ,  they will not go to get any money from me ,
simple as that . 
 
The sponsors of any R&D by Fluke ,  are their stock market investors , not me.
 

 

 

[alm]

One difference is that prices in the EU are usually stated including VAT/sales tax, unlike the US (at least when targeted at individuals). Apart from this, there's not a lot of protectionism, DMM's with logging ability are even 0% import duty. It's mostly greediness on the part of the distributors, and the fact that they can get away with it (I'm sure Fluke wouldn't mind charging an extra $100 in the US if the market would bear it).

International warranty depends on the company, some companies will warranty their product regardless where it was bought (as it should be in my opinion), some refuse even paid repairs (Nikon USA is one of those). They're usually more flexible if the distributor is owned by the same company, as opposed to separate entities. If they're independent, they only make money from products they import, and they care less about goodwill of the brand.

[saturation]

Thanks Alm.  Glad, or hope this is so, nevertheless VAT excluded, just comparing Farnell's prices to tequipment:

For the 87V, its GBP 325 + tax = £379.53.

That's about $480 US, $570 with tax, at the current exchange rate, and no S&H yet.

S&H Free:
Tequipment = $380.
Amazon = $314.

One difference is that prices in the EU are usually stated including VAT/sales tax, unlike the US (at least when targeted at individuals). Apart from this, there's not a lot of protectionism, DMM's with logging ability are even 0% import duty. It's mostly greediness on the part of the distributors, and the fact that they can get away with it (I'm sure Fluke wouldn't mind charging an extra $100 in the US if the market would bear it).

International warranty depends on the company, some companies will warranty their product regardless where it was bought (as it should be in my opinion), some refuse even paid repairs (Nikon USA is one of those). They're usually more flexible if the distributor is owned by the same company, as opposed to separate entities. If they're independent, they only make money from products they import, and they care less about goodwill of the brand.