Agilent or Fluke?

[orbiter]

OK fellas... Which would be your choice between the Agilent U1252B and the Fluke 287 & 289 multimeters, I have the option of any and price is not an issue, so which would you go for and why?

Personaly I'm leaning towards the Agilent at the moment mainly because it looks a little more modern and I don't particularly like the idea of the 6 battery setup in the Fluke. I won't be wanting the Agilent OLED version as the battery life is not good at all on that model. As far as I can tell there's not really much difference in features and specs although but if build quality is beter on the fluke I guess that would be something to look into.

What's the consensus of opinion then fellas?

Cheers

orb  

[alm]

I think Dave reviewed both (a close relative of the Agilent), did you watch those? I believe both have some unique features. I'd guess that the build quality of the Fluke is better, but have never seen a handheld Agilent DMM up close. I remember the Agilent DMM (at least the -A version that Dave reviewed) had some annoying quirks, but had some cool features and specs. I would probably go for the Fluke unless the Agilent has some specific spec/feature that convinced me, but I don't think you'll go wrong buying either.

[saturation]

Without a second thought about price, the Fluke 289.  If you need data capture, the Fluke lets you see data status in the field, its more like a low bandwidth hand held scope over a DMM.  The Agilent is more like a DMM but requires docking software to see captured data.

Measurement spec wise, and reputation wise, I'd say ~ par but the Fluke is overall better spec'd. 

But major issues for each DMM:

Agilent battery life on any of the 1200 series DMM is under 70 hours, and worse, up to 8 hours, which is unacceptably low. 

The hulking 289 does 100 h, and 200h in sleep mode while engaging data capture, but the thing is huge as DMMs go. 

[orbiter]

I think Dave reviewed both (a close relative of the Agilent), did you watch those? I believe both have some unique features. I'd guess that the build quality of the Fluke is better, but have never seen a handheld Agilent DMM up close. I remember the Agilent DMM (at least the -A version that Dave reviewed) had some annoying quirks, but had some cool features and specs. I would probably go for the Fluke unless the Agilent has some specific spec/feature that convinced me, but I don't think you'll go wrong buying either.

Thanks alm,

Yes I've seen Dave's clips, very interesting. Wasn't too impressed by the dry joint on the Agilent though but I'll put that down to being a one off. The build quality is the slight niggle for me really as I've never had such good meters before so would be disappointed if I found that Agilent was poor, however I can't see that being the case really and would have thought that like you say, neither meter would be a bad choice.

Cheers

orb

Without a second thought about price, the Fluke 289.  If you need data capture, the Fluke lets you see data status in the field, its more like a low bandwidth hand held scope over a DMM.  The Agilent is more like a DMM but requires docking software to see captured data.

Measurement spec wise, and reputation wise, I'd say ~ par but the Fluke is overall better spec'd. 

But major issues for each DMM:

Agilent battery life on any of the 1200 series DMM is under 70 hours, and worse, up to 8 hours, which is unacceptably low. 

The hulking 289 does 100 h, and 200h in sleep mode while engaging data capture, but the thing is huge as DMMs go. 

Thanks Saturation,

Thinking about it I can't see the live data capture features of the Fluke being beneficial to me really, although it
may be a nice thing to have. The thing is that I've always got access to a PC so viewing logged data wouldn't be a problem for me.
Good point on the physical size aspect too as space is one thing I don't have much off so I'll check that out.

Cheers

orb

[saturation]

you're welcome.  Just keep in mind, and I hate to say it, but beware Agilent trending towards trendy gimmicks in DMM.  I posted elsewhere they have a promo with fashion faceplates for one of their series of DMMs.



In this series, the OLED display reads gimmicky.  While it does read nicely in dark surroundings, its unreadable in sunlight.  The fact that OLED constantly requires an active light emission makes this entire series of questionable practicality compared to what typical reflective LCD DMMs do.  I think OLED is better suited to bench DMMs if basic cheap 7 segment LEDs don't suffice.

[orbiter]

you're welcome.  Just keep in mind, and I hate to say it, but beware Agilent trending towards gimmicks in DMM.  I posted elsewhere they have a promo with fashion faceplates for one of their series of DMMs.

In this series, the OLED display is gimmicky.  While it does read nicely in dark surroundings, its unreadable in sunlight.  The fact that OLED constantly requires an active light emission makes this entire series of questionable practicality compared to what typical transmissive LCD DMMs do.

Yea I've just been looking at those faceplates. Not a good idea I don't think, especially on a professional piece of equipment. Always makes me wonder why they didn't spend those wasted few £'s on making the main product better.

I wouldn't even consider the OLED display my friend, the battery life is just not good enough. I think I am right in thinking that it is only the U125 '3' models that use the OLED. The model I would be considering is the U125 '2' which uses a normal type display and has a 70 hr battery life using the rechargable. I think it can use standard 9v batteries too which would probably last longer than the rechargable one.

orb

[EEVblog]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

[orbiter]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

Thanks for your input Dave, much appreciated. Yes the battery life thing is a pain really on both meters, but especially the OLED (U1253) versions. Although as I've mentioned previously, If I went for the Agilent I'd opt for the U1252B which uses a none OLED display. At least with that version battery life would be a bit more bearable and perhaps slightly cheaper overall to run than the Fluke.

I'll give both meters a few more days thought though before making a final decision.

Cheers

orb

[EEVblog]

I guess it comes down to what you need it for.
The Fluke is the clear winner for datalogging, as you can display the graph on screen.
But the Agilent is a much nicer and easier to use meter for everyday general use IMO.
Everyone I know who owns a 289 complains about having to change all those AA's all the time.

But if price is no object and I had to chose one, I'd probably opt for the Fluke.

Dave.

Thanks for your input Dave, much appreciated. Yes the battery life thing is a pain really on both meters, but especially the OLED (U1253) versions. Although as I've mentioned previously, If I went for the Agilent I'd opt for the U1252B which uses a none OLED display. At least with that version battery life would be a bit more bearable and perhaps slightly cheaper overall to run than the Fluke.

I'll give both meters a few more days thought though before making a final decision.

Cheers

orb

Yes, the OLED display is for those with a specific need, and of course is completely useless outdoors.
It's a beautiful display but the LCD version would be much more preferable for most uses.
The Fluke has that lifetime warranty vs 3 years too.

Dave.

[Kiriakos-GR]

The Fluke lifetime warranty ... its just seven  years Max ... under special conditions.

For more details ... Fluke web site .. or direct email ..

[lhc]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minumum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

[EEVblog]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minumum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

I've heard of people still getting them fixed for free after very long periods of time.
Oh, and apparently Fluke also have excellent spare parts support for a long time (never used it myself though).

Dave.

[McPete]

If I may suggest this; Unless you need the extra features of the 289, you're not getting any better specifications from it over the 287. The 289 strikes me as much more of a field-based meter, for people working with cable runs and VSD motors. Nice, but a bit of a waste for most electronics applications.

I may be sounding like a broken record here, but if you want a datalogging meter, check out Yokogawa DMMs too- Teqipment carry them, and they're priced pretty sharply. I'm definitely leaning toward one when I buy my next DMM.

[orbiter]

If I may suggest this; Unless you need the extra features of the 289, you're not getting any better specifications from it over the 287. The 289 strikes me as much more of a field-based meter, for people working with cable runs and VSD motors. Nice, but a bit of a waste for most electronics applications.

I may be sounding like a broken record here, but if you want a datalogging meter, check out Yokogawa DMMs too- Teqipment carry them, and they're priced pretty sharply. I'm definitely leaning toward one when I buy my next DMM.

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Fluke-289-True-rms-Digital-Logging-Multimeter-/200489449925?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eae1a39c5

[EEVblog]

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

[orbiter]

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

Yea I thought that too Dave but it's £100 cheaper than everywhere else and it's making me very sceptical.

orb

[saturation]

That's a lot of money for an eBay purchase, I would be skeptical and very careful, even if the item is legitimate.  The seller does have a good rep, and a posted address, so you can verify who they are.

How can a new DMM have batteries installed?  They often aren't, they remain wrapped in a case for the user to install.

Yes I've got the 287 under consideration too thanks, I think It'll be a toss up really though between the 289 and Agilent U1252B. I've actually seen the 289 on ebay (below) but the price looks too good to be true and it would frighten me if I got a copy or something instead of the real thing. It does look legitimate though. What do you guys think?...

Never heard of nor seen fake Fluke meters.
There are ones that are styled very similar, but no identical copies as far as I know.

Dave.

Yea I thought that too Dave but it's £100 cheaper than everywhere else and it's making me very sceptical.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minimum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

Well this is an sensitive matter , and  has an value only if it is printed in paper and signed .
Every year the CEO board of those company s , they adjust their policy , by their will .

If you like to stay informed , you should read the very latest statements of them !!  

By the latest disclaimer of them ( posted at the Fluke web site) ,   they  drop the support to Max 7 years , so to lower the expenses of maintaining - storing parts in their warehouse ,  and use the money in the development of new products .

Personally , an such a policy finds me totally against as consumer,
Thats why I will never buy an Fluke meter at full price, from the official channel.

When I buy something today , I pay the price premium , so to also buy the support for it !!
If any Fluke, wishes to use my money for other tasks ,  they will not go to get any money from me ,
simple as that .  
 
The sponsors of any R&D by Fluke ,  are their stock market investors , not me.
  

  

 

[alm]

Almost all test equipment vendors (including Agilent and Tektronix) are like that nowadays, can you name a test equipment manufacturer that offers longer warranty than the at least ten years that Fluke offers? You are obviously free to spend your money however you like, but it's not like there are a lot of better alternatives. I'd rather give money to Fluke or Agilent than to a company that only makes cheap clones and does hardly any R&D of their own.

Usually the warranty conditions that were in effect at the time of the sale apply, it's very rare for companies not to honor these, especially for someone like Fluke who have a reputation to uphold. Do you have any documented cases where Fluke failed to honor the original warranty because they later changed the terms?

[orbiter]

Thanks guys. I'm definately going to skip that cheap Fluke 289 from ebay. I'd rather spend the extra cash and get a meter from a reputable company than get ripped off. Don't get me wrong the guy may be a perfectly reasonable seller but it just looks too good to be true, and that normally means it is.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

but it's not like there are a lot of better alternatives

They do , they do .... If you live in France , you will get an Metex , they do have plenty of support.
If you live in Germany , you can have plenty of support at Metrawatt's
 
But unfortunately we are limited by our borders ...  Internet its the only vehicle that eliminates borders 
Thats why it called as an virtual world . 
 

[alm]

I just checked Gossen-Metrawatt, they offer three year warranty on their DMM's. Metex offers one year, and sells some pretty crappy products, so I wouldn't buy anything they make unseen. I couldn't find anything about spare parts support. I'd expect Gossen-Metrawatt to have a pretty good spare parts support, but not sure how long after it's discontinued. Given the price, I doubt that Metex sells any spare parts.

But this is off-topic, since the orb just asked about Agilent or Fluke, and I doubt we'll agree on this, since you seem to have something against US companies, and prefer cheaper (in every way) Asian brands, so this will be my last post on this topic in this thread.

[saturation]

In the US, most of us get discounts off list price and get a new product with all the trimmings.  Most educational or volume discounts are 10-50% of list price.  With these prices, a new Fluke is not as much as a used but not so old one off eBay, for products still in production.  Your best eBay deals are products off production or oldies but goodies.  Often those list price is just to give the purchaser something to use when making a rough budget.

The persons left out in the cold are the small shops or self proprietor, they may not find a good price if not for places like tequipment.net.

As for your comment on warranty, I think Alm has said it best.

In the US, a warranty needn't be signed and the document must be distributed with the product, not to honor it is consider fraud.  Further, whatever warranty is in your possession regardless of policy change is in effect from the time of purchase, but these are laws in the USA not in Greece.  The Greek Fluke, if there is such a dealer, needn't honor the warranty if they have a separate price and support structure for local distributor and you bought it in the US.

Its also clear the lifetime Fluke warranty is 7 years after the product has ceased production, but not less than 10 years from purchase. That is probably the best warranty I know for DMMs.  The 87V is a unique DMM, as its been around for so long, longer than all other DMMs currently sold, I think, and I still say its the best general purpose DMM made.

The 289 is a US made Fluke, while the Agilent in question here is made by the Malaysian Agilent factory.  Not a big problem, but as Dave showed, there is just a touch of quality issues with the Agilent compared to a Fluke.  So for these DMMs, its clear who is better made, the question is more features and price.

Finally, things are different outside the USA.  The choices and prices are different, so it maybe cheaper to buy a Gossen, which I think is the only DMM, the Xtra being equal or better than the 87V.  It may be more cost effective to buy this DMM in EU, because I read Fluke prices seem unusually high, many times higher than list prices in the USA, which suggests some protectionism since the US dollar is weaker than the pound or Euro.

Warranty for Fluke 87 V (and probably other higher models) is 7 years after Fluke discontinues to manufacture this model but minimum 10 years from the date of purchase. So you always get minimum 10 years of warranty and in some cases even more.

Well this is an sensitive matter , and  has an value only if it is printed in paper and signed .
Every year the CEO board of those company s , they adjust their policy , by their will .

If you like to stay informed , you should read the very latest statements of them !! 

By the latest disclaimer of them ( posted at the Fluke web site) ,   they  drop the support to Max 7 years , so to lower the expenses of maintaining - storing parts in their warehouse ,  and use the money in the development of new products .

Personally , an such a policy finds me totally against as consumer,
Thats why I will never buy an Fluke meter at full price, from the official channel.

When I buy something today , I pay the price premium , so to also buy the support for it !!
If any Fluke, wishes to use my money for other tasks ,  they will not go to get any money from me ,
simple as that . 
 
The sponsors of any R&D by Fluke ,  are their stock market investors , not me.
 

 

 

[alm]

One difference is that prices in the EU are usually stated including VAT/sales tax, unlike the US (at least when targeted at individuals). Apart from this, there's not a lot of protectionism, DMM's with logging ability are even 0% import duty. It's mostly greediness on the part of the distributors, and the fact that they can get away with it (I'm sure Fluke wouldn't mind charging an extra $100 in the US if the market would bear it).

International warranty depends on the company, some companies will warranty their product regardless where it was bought (as it should be in my opinion), some refuse even paid repairs (Nikon USA is one of those). They're usually more flexible if the distributor is owned by the same company, as opposed to separate entities. If they're independent, they only make money from products they import, and they care less about goodwill of the brand.

[saturation]

Thanks Alm.  Glad, or hope this is so, nevertheless VAT excluded, just comparing Farnell's prices to tequipment:

For the 87V, its GBP 325 + tax = £379.53.

That's about $480 US, $570 with tax, at the current exchange rate, and no S&H yet.

S&H Free:
Tequipment = $380.
Amazon = $314.

One difference is that prices in the EU are usually stated including VAT/sales tax, unlike the US (at least when targeted at individuals). Apart from this, there's not a lot of protectionism, DMM's with logging ability are even 0% import duty. It's mostly greediness on the part of the distributors, and the fact that they can get away with it (I'm sure Fluke wouldn't mind charging an extra $100 in the US if the market would bear it).

International warranty depends on the company, some companies will warranty their product regardless where it was bought (as it should be in my opinion), some refuse even paid repairs (Nikon USA is one of those). They're usually more flexible if the distributor is owned by the same company, as opposed to separate entities. If they're independent, they only make money from products they import, and they care less about goodwill of the brand.

[alm]

I didn't mean to imply that the prices aren't a rip-off, just that it's mainly the companies screwing the customers, not the government.

[EEVblog]

Thanks Alm.  Glad, or hope this is so, nevertheless VAT excluded, just comparing Farnell's prices to tequipment:

For the 87V, its GBP 325 + tax = £379.53.

That's about $480 US, $570 with tax, at the current exchange rate, and no S&H yet.

S&H Free:
Tequipment = $380.
Amazon = $314.

If you order anything through Amazon, remember to use the link on my page! ;-)

Dave.

[orbiter]

Wish I was in the US sometimes. The Fluke 289 at Amazon.com works out at £50 cheaper over there than here in the UK Mind due they don't call it 'Rip Off Britain' for nothing.

orb

[Kiriakos-GR]

Metex offers one year, and sells some pretty crappy products, so I wouldn't buy anything they make unseen.

Well ,  You are the only one so far who called Metex as crap brand.
Thats an serious  accusation ..  

If you have any proofs , just share them with all .

If not swallow your pride , and stay silent .  

And I am saying all this , because METEX are the major top seller in Greece .
And the choice of the true Professionals .
http://www.imetex.com/

Simple as that .    

[Kiriakos-GR]

Further, whatever warranty is in your possession regardless of policy change is in effect from the time of purchase, but these are laws in the USA not in Greece.  The Greek Fluke, if there is such a dealer, needn't honor the warranty if they have a separate price and support structure for local distributor and you bought it in the US.

First , I do not think that any seller has the right to add the discontinued tag on the Fluke web site.
The company does that , when ever it likes ..  

Second , any Fluke division ,  will just say to the customer that this is one discontinued product,
Because they .. had choose so , and they will say , that there in no further support.

Third,  there is warranty coverage .
If the product are still fresh , and on the selfs ,
no one has anything to worry about .
But even the day of the purchase , its on the calendar of the days , that the product are active.

If I buy one new sealed Fluke 87-5 at 2020 , and expect 7 years warranty , I must be a lunatic !!  

And last about the Fluke EU  distribution network ,
Headquarters in Holland ,  distributors everywhere  at list three major ones in Greece.
Service centers ....  None  ..  The one listed are inactive .

You have to send the meter to Holland ...  you have to ask parts from Holland ..

And I am asking !! What would be the reputation of Fluke , If they had one service center in New York ,
and 360 millions of Americans , was hopping to have support ..

Big breath ...

I like to be totally honest , and I think that even so , with the Internet and all the power that our communication offers , plus the assist of ebay ,  and other marketing channels ,
we do not feel like to be in a jail or something.

If some one has a problem , " with or with out"  the help of the manufacturer, it will find one solution.

All that I nag about , are that I wish  the " human face " of all those companies ,
to was  more  " human " .  
Every one had started to hide this days, behind papers and disclaimers ,
and this bothers me allot.

There are many decent players worldwide , and if they all grow and create better distribution networks,
and service centers ,  it will be a benefit for all .  

 

 

 
  

[orbiter]

Just to keep you guys updated, In the end I went for the Agilent U1252B. Woo-hoo what a meter

One very disappointing thing though, when the meter arrived I couldn't wait to try the datalogging features, so I immediatetly downloaded the software from Agilent (no the meter doesn't come with the software either .) Anyway.. I installed the software on Windows 7 x64bit only to be presented with an error on first run. After a little searching I found that the software doesn't work with Windows 7 And not just the x64 bit version either, It doesn work with Windows 7 at all

The problem for me is.. I've updated all my computers to run on Windows 7 x64, and even in compatibility mode the logging software doesn't work

Poor show Agilent.. Very poor show indeed!



orb

[alm]

I would bug Agilent support about this, they should fix that soon, or at least offer a workaround. This is not what you should expect from an Agilent product. Shame on them!

[orbiter]

The wheels are in motion alm. I emailed them as soon as I found out about this and will continue to do so. It's my own fault for not checking I guess but I assumed a company like Agilent would have have software that supported the latest operating systems, especially as windows 7 and 7 x64 have been around for amost a year now.

This poorly written bit of information is available from Agilents website on the FAQ regarding the datalogging software....

Question.. Does the Agilent GUI Data Logger Software work on Window Vista and Windows 7 operating system?

Answer.. Yes. The Agilent GUI Data Logger Software will able to run under Windows Vista 32-bit. Windows 7 is not supported …

orb

[squeezee]

Yeah it's a bit dodgy that 4 years after windows vista they don't have a 64-bit compatible application. Also since it's a .NET 2.0+ app there really is no (good) excuse either.

Of course most likely it's just a new interface built on top of some nasty old code/libraries which were used for their previous meters. (falls into the not-a-good-excuse category)

Can't blame the driver as even the included one is 64-bit already.

One way to use their software might be to virtualize the application. (if you have Win 7 pro or higher)

[orbiter]

One way to use their software might be to virtualize the application. (if you have Win 7 pro or higher)

I have Windows 7 Ultimate x64 bit squeeze. Could I virtualize the Agilent software using my currect x64bit operating system, and if so how would I go about it please as I've never done that before? Would I need something like VMware ThinApp?

Regards

orb

[ThunderSqueak]

Often, you can get software to work by installing it by right clicking the installation program and selecting "run as administrator", this allows it to install the drivers into the proper locations. Then do the same for the actual application. Also try running it in compatibility mode (right click -> properties -> compatability mode and then select a supported OS)

  Since you are running windows 7 ultimate (this is a free option for pro or higher) you can also try their virtual xp mode option. go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx     Not the best option, but sometimes it works when compatibility mode will not.

Another option would be to dual boot.  

[squeezee]

You use Virtual PC, it's called XP mode and lets you run applications hosted inside the VM while appearing as a normal app on the desktop.

edit: beat by ThunderSqueak

[ThunderSqueak]

You use Virtual PC, it's called XP mode and lets you run applications hosted inside the VM while appearing as a normal app on the desktop.

edit: beat by ThunderSqueak

HA HA I WIN!!!!  

[orbiter]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, however I installed xp mode successfuly but to no avail. The Agilent software still won't run. I actually thought it maybe a bad download so I downloaded it again but still no go. Might be a x64 bit issue. Can't wait to hear what Agilent have to say hopefully tomorrow.

[ThunderSqueak]

I decided to give the software a go, I am running windows 7 ultimate x64, I downloaded the agilent software package and installed the vista driver with no issues then I installed the data logging software.  No issues doing a standard install.   I then ran the program with no issues by right clicking the "Agilent GUI Data Logger" software icon, and selecting "run as administrator"  after about 20 seconds the software started up and runs happily.  It seems the software sets up some variables that if you do not run it as administrator the first time it cannot set. 

After the first run as administrator, the software appeared to startup normally after that. 

Machine this is running on:

2.0Ghz AMD x64 bit dual core
4gigs ram
windows 7 ultimate x64
8200M Nvidia Graphics card

[orbiter]

I decided to give the software a go, I am running windows 7 ultimate x64, I downloaded the agilent software package and installed the vista driver with no issues then I installed the data logging software.  No issues doing a standard install.   I then ran the program with no issues by right clicking the "Agilent GUI Data Logger" software icon, and selecting "run as administrator"  after about 20 seconds the software started up and runs happily.  It seems the software sets up some variables that if you do not run it as administrator the first time it cannot set.  

After the first run as administrator, the software appeared to startup normally after that.  

Machine this is running on:

2.0Ghz AMD x64 bit dual core
4gigs ram
windows 7 ultimate x64
8200M Nvidia Graphics card

Thanks ThunderSqueak, It's seems the Agilent software may have been updated. Their website went down late last night then re-appeared around an hour later. Following the downtime the logging software dates seem to have changed from */*/2009 to 22/3/2010. In fact the initial download page shows a date of 14/7/2010. I have just downloaded the software again and tried it on my laptop which also runs Windiws 7 ultimate x64 and yes, like you say it works just fine, so I'll try it again later on my main system.

I'm made up that it's working on one system at least so I can view the logs

Thanks again mate

orb

[saturation]

Congratulations on your new DMM.  Can you give us your review of its capabilities, and check the accuracy of its readings?

[orbiter]

Thanks saturation.

I've not got any real accurate equipment I can use to test it against really as I only do electronics for my hobby, and I'm far from very experienced at present. The Agilent is going to be my main test meter though and by that I mean I'll be using it when I'm not 100% sure or need to double check any readings against my other meters, even though themselves are not bad ones. My main day to day meter is an Extech EX330 which fine and I also have a Voltcraft VC920 which seems almost as accurate as the Agilent. The Agilent has however shown up my other meters already though as regards capacitance readings, the others meters are quite slow in comparison. The Agilent virtualy bangs the readings straight up on to the display.

The build quality is awesome, I've even tried Dave's twist test and the thing doesn't budge at all. A quick look inside the meter shows a slightly different board than the one Dave had in that there is now an isolation slot and the front panel has a plastic blast shield that fits through that slot....



Also the soldering problem which Dave highlighted gladly hasn't affected all meters as mine shows no sign of bad joints, although one of the screws holding the board in does look as though it's been overtightened with an air tool or something as the head of one of the screws looks a bit rounded.

Regarding the battery rattling in it's compartment, mine was suffering the same issue. All it would have taken was for Agilent to insert a second small piece of rubber or sponge inside the compartment to eliminate this, however it's easy enough to sort out. I just put a few little sticky pads at the base of the compartment which does the job just fine.

If anybody tries this though.. Just don't make the pads too thick, as they'll put excessive pressure on the battery door.



orb

[alm]

I wouldn't be worried about accuracy, especially since they give you a calibration certificate. I find it very unlikely that Agilent would have troubles calibrating a 4.5 digit meter. Plus you would need calibrated equipment with a higher accuracy to verify. Things like battery life, usability issues, durability and long-term stability are much more interesting in my opinion, although long-term stability would be hard to verify without proper equipment.

[orbiter]

I wouldn't be worried about accuracy, especially since they give you a calibration certificate. I find it very unlikely that Agilent would have troubles calibrating a 4.5 digit meter. Plus you would need calibrated equipment with a higher accuracy to verify. Things like battery life, usability issues, durability and long-term stability are much more interesting in my opinion, although long-term stability would be hard to verify without proper equipment.

I'm not concerned with the meters accuracy alm my friend, I'm sure the meter is just fine, I was just replying to saturations request for a review, so I've posted my findings as to what I have discovered as of now. If anybody would like anymore info or anything regarding this model of the Agilent just let me know and I'll test it out.

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

Regards

orb

[slburris]

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

In the first photo, what's up with the Agilent logo in the silkscreen?  I see their
starburst design. but the "A", "g", and "e" appear to be missing.


Scott

[orbiter]

I can't even give a battery life review yet as I've only charged it once, used it for around 7 hours and the battery indicator is still showing over 90% which is fine for my needs. Looking back now I'm sure I would have been disappointed with the OLED version as the battery would have been dead already.

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

In the first photo, what's up with the Agilent logo in the silkscreen?  I see their
starburst design. but the "A", "g", and "e" appear to be missing.


Scott

Probably just the sticker didn't take or something I guess. I was wondering if I was going to find the A,G and E inside the case somewhere when I opened it up

orb

[ThunderSqueak]

Thanks ThunderSqueak, It's seems the Agilent software may have been updated. Their website went down late last night then re-appeared around an hour later. Following the downtime the logging software dates seem to have changed from */*/2009 to 22/3/2010. In fact the initial download page shows a date of 14/7/2010. I have just downloaded the software again and tried it on my laptop which also runs Windiws 7 ultimate x64 and yes, like you say it works just fine, so I'll try it again later on my main system.

I'm made up that it's working on one system at least so I can view the logs

Thanks again mate

orb

Glad it worked out for you    

[EEVblog]

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

The OLED display is brilliant, no pun intended.

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

Agilent need to redesign it. The 9V battery solution sucks. Luckily they offer the LCD versions as well.

Dave.

[saturation]

This is one thing I dislike about Agilent's DMM line made apparent by dissection and Dave's usability testing, they don't seem to be thinking thoroughly and miss such engineering things that make a difference, they put a nifty OLED display that is underpowered and well, practically useless in sunlight,  fashion skins and their PCB work is a bit haphazard .. but not sure it matters in overall functionality or safety over the pristine Fluke engineering.  However, given costs Agilent is very cost effective, but Fluke is what you buy expecting it to last for life.

Instead of a 9V NiMH with 250mAH, a DC-DC converter powered by AA NiMH will provide almost 8x the power since AA are typically 2000mAH, that would push the battery life past 300H easily and yet they didn't.  

I'm still irresistibly drawn to the readability of the OLED display :-)

The OLED display is brilliant, no pun intended.

But I have enough meters, so I'm hoping someone else will try again with
the OLED but with a better power design.

Agilent need to redesign it. The 9V battery solution sucks. Luckily they offer the LCD versions as well.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

This is one thing I dislike about Agilent's DMM line made apparent by dissection and Dave's usability testing, they don't seem to be thinking thoroughly and miss such engineering things that make a difference, they put a nifty OLED display that is underpowered and well, practically useless in sunlight,  fashion skins and their PCB work is a bit haphazard .. but not sure it matters in overall functionality or safety over the pristine Fluke engineering.  However, given costs Agilent is very cost effective, but Fluke is what you buy expecting it to last for life.

But the thing everyone keeps forgetting is that the OLED meter is available in an LCD meter (exact same specs etc). If you don't like the battery life/OLED trade-off then get the LCD version, simple as that. Agilent give you a choice which I think it really good.

Their U1240 range has 300 hours battery life.

Instead of a 9V NiMH with 250mAH, a DC-DC converter powered by AA NiMH will provide almost 8x the power since AA are typically 2000mAH, that would push the battery life past 300H easily and yet they didn't.  

Don't know about 300h, but yeah, really stupid design decision. They should have done much better with the OLED version (and the U1252 LCD version too)

Dave.

[orbiter]

One thing I'll throw in here if I may, and in Agilents favour.. Is that I was very happy & surprised the other day when I contacted Agilent (RE: My U1252B.) Expecting to have to go through the rigmarol off speaking to somebody who perhaps couldn't speak English very well, or who couldn't understand me, I was surprise when an English person picked up the phone, he answered my questions immidiately and thoroughly and was very helpful. As regards getting hold of some new fuses (earlier in thread) I had to be put through to Barcelona (Accounts,) Even then I spoke to a very helpful bloke who sorted my spares out for me straight away, and also took my money of course

Anyway the point was that I was really pleased to know that if anything should go wrong with my Agilent stuff, you can at least talk to somebody about it who is happy to help. All to often these days you seem to ring up for service after spending your money and get nothing but the runaround.

orb

[saturation]

I just happened to have the 1250 series brochure 5989-5509EN.pdf nearby and found these.  Yes, was aware of the LCD variant, and other less power hungry variants of this Agilent DMM, but the 1250 series as a whole is a bit of a hog, clearly a 9V alkaline or NiMH just doesn't provide enough mAh:

POWER CONSUMPTION
105 mVA / 420 mVA (with backlight) maximum (U1251A/U1251B)
165 mVA / 480 mVA (with backlight) maximum (U1252A/U1252B)
420 mVA maximum (U1253A/U1253B)
BATTERY TYPE
9 V Alkaline battery (ANSI/NEDA 1604A or IEC 6LR61)
9 V Carbon-zinc battery (ANSI/NEDA 1604D or IEC6F22)
7.2 V or 8.4 V Ni-MH Rechargeable battery
BATTERY LIFE
U1251A/U1251B: 72 hours typical
U1252A/U1252B: 36 hours typical
U1253A/U1253B: 8 hours typical

The lower line series 1240 reports in 5989-7040EN_FA.pdf:

POWER CONSUMPTION
0.22 VA maximum
BATTERY TYPE AND LIFE
4 single standard 1.5V AAA .... 300 hours typical

Clearly Agilent engineers could have engineered a 1240 like AAA power section into the 1250, and since AAA typically have 1000mAH, it could have improved battery life substantially.

This is one thing I dislike about Agilent's DMM line made apparent by dissection and Dave's usability testing, they don't seem to be thinking thoroughly and miss such engineering things that make a difference, they put a nifty OLED display that is underpowered and well, practically useless in sunlight,  fashion skins and their PCB work is a bit haphazard .. but not sure it matters in overall functionality or safety over the pristine Fluke engineering.  However, given costs Agilent is very cost effective, but Fluke is what you buy expecting it to last for life.

But the thing everyone keeps forgetting is that the OLED meter is available in an LCD meter (exact same specs etc). If you don't like the battery life/OLED trade-off then get the LCD version, simple as that. Agilent give you a choice which I think it really good.

Their U1240 range has 300 hours battery life.

Instead of a 9V NiMH with 250mAH, a DC-DC converter powered by AA NiMH will provide almost 8x the power since AA are typically 2000mAH, that would push the battery life past 300H easily and yet they didn't.  

Don't know about 300h, but yeah, really stupid design decision. They should have done much better with the OLED version (and the U1252 LCD version too)

Dave.

[saturation]

Unquestionably, one of the benefits of buying from a big name, service and long term support.  In the international forum here, its also interesting to review how currency exchange rates, local taxes, shipping and handling, and local pricing affect the overall decision of which device buy, all apart from the native specs and usability.

One thing I'll throw in here if I may, and in Agilents favour.. Is that I was very happy & surprised the other day when I contacted Agilent (RE: My U1252B.) Expecting to have to go through the rigmarol off speaking to somebody who perhaps couldn't speak English very well, or who couldn't understand me, I was surprise when an English person picked up the phone, he answered my questions immidiately and thoroughly and was very helpful. As regards getting hold of some new fuses (earlier in thread) I had to be put through to Barcelona (Accounts,) Even then I spoke to a very helpful bloke who sorted my spares out for me straight away, and also took my money of course

Anyway the point was that I was really pleased to know that if anything should go wrong with my Agilent stuff, you can at least talk to somebody about it who is happy to help. All to often these days you seem to ring up for service after spending your money and get nothing but the runaround.

orb

[EEVblog]

I just happened to have the 1250 series brochure 5989-5509EN.pdf nearby and found these.  Yes, was aware of the LCD variant, and other less power hungry variants of this Agilent DMM, but the 1250 series as a whole is a bit of a hog, clearly a 9V alkaline or NiMH just doesn't provide enough mAh:

POWER CONSUMPTION
105 mVA / 420 mVA (with backlight) maximum (U1251A/U1251B)
165 mVA / 480 mVA (with backlight) maximum (U1252A/U1252B)
420 mVA maximum (U1253A/U1253B)
BATTERY TYPE
9 V Alkaline battery (ANSI/NEDA 1604A or IEC 6LR61)
9 V Carbon-zinc battery (ANSI/NEDA 1604D or IEC6F22)
7.2 V or 8.4 V Ni-MH Rechargeable battery
BATTERY LIFE
U1251A/U1251B: 72 hours typical
U1252A/U1252B: 36 hours typical
U1253A/U1253B: 8 hours typical

The lower line series 1240 reports in 5989-7040EN_FA.pdf:

POWER CONSUMPTION
0.22 VA maximum
BATTERY TYPE AND LIFE
4 single standard 1.5V AAA .... 300 hours typical

Clearly Agilent engineers could have engineered a 1240 like AAA power section into the 1250, and since AAA typically have 1000mAH, it could have improved battery life substantially.

Yes, the 1250 series is on par in functionality with the Fluke 289 series which is also a battery hog. But Fluke sensibly chose to use 6 x AA's, but still gets pretty shit battery life.
So I think the Agilent actually has better power consumption figures. I wish they'd redesign the battery!

Dave.

[MerlinMac]

Fluke is the best choice , it's just try it and realize that it is super fast , connects to mobile or tablet, ofrenciendo the best display quality and very very fast . Fluke 289 always .

[Muxr]

I wouldn't pick either. Unless of course you have some specific need that makes it a must. If you need more resolution I would seriously look into bench DMMs. They have proper heated voltage refs you wouldn't want in a handheld meter anyways. So if high resolution measurement is something I need then I would use a proper tool for that. Not a hand held.

For your day to day meter, you want a meter that's dependable, with a simple UI that's quick to navigate, good protection and quality and a long battery life so that virtually every time you pick it up to use it it's always bang on. All these feature packed metters fail in that.

OLED seems really cool, but when you consider the drawbacks, it make no sense to pick it over an LCD. Battery consumption, life expectancy, OLED burn ins, it quickly becomes a horrible design decision.

Personally Fluke 87V is where it's at. My 2c.

[cs.dk]

The thread is dated 2010!