Chinese Parts

[wraper]

My understanding of that quote (in red) was that not components but finished electronic equipment, many for well known international brands are made or assembled in China and sold worldwide under the known brand name, just look on the back of equipment like TV, radios, tablets, mobile phones, calculators etc etc. I think the percentage is wide of the mark however but certainly there is a huge amount of stuff on sale in the shops that originated from China in one form or another. This clearly demonstrates that they have the technical know how on how to produce some first class gear/equipment. Anyone who ignores this is in denial, China is one of the worlds great industrial country's and has a huge economy and standing in the world rankings.

You can buy shitty items made locally in your own country even, its up each one of us to do our own homework and decide what to buy and from where and if you choose not to buy Chinese thats up to you, but I for one will continue buying their products if I deem them to be suitable for my requirements and take advantage of the savings to be had while they last.

No, this tread is about components and that quote says particularly about components, nothing about equipment. Also note that many semiconductor components which are made in China or in other country, often have dies diffused in some completely different country. For example I have analog devices ICs which are diffused in Ireland but assembled in Malaysia. It's very obvious if you look at AMD CPU's




As of where equipment is assembled. If you look at, say, printers, you'll have a hard time finding one which is made in China. Vast majority of them are made in Vietnam, be it Canon, HP or something else.

[SkyMaster]

I can make a LED that looks exactly like a Lite On one, and I can put my brand on it, and that's nothing counterfeit (whether it infringes Lite On IP is a different story) as long as I don't sell it as Lite On.

Yes you could. But why would an unknown manufacturer makes a component that look exactly like the one made by a well known manufacturer?

Unless it is advertised as a direct drop in replacement, your LED would be considered as an imitation. An imitation is not the real thing. A fake component is an imitation.

 

[wraper]

I can bet you with my bottom dollar that you can't distinguish the difference between a Murata 0402 0.1uF 15V X5R and same spec capacitor from AVX.

Actually they look quiet different under microscope. If you mix both together, for me it would be quiet easy task to separate both types. Actually I find that Samsung, AVX, Murata, Kemet which I use, generally have their own look.

[wraper]

Color is more dependent on capacitor ratings. What I find is different is shape, surface, shape of terminal metallization. I find that Kemet 0603 capacitors are around 0.1mm shorter than the rest. Samsung often has rough surface. Murata has corners rounded in certain way and similar things.

[soubitos]

Quote from: wraper on Today at 03:12:35 AM

No, this tread is about components and that quote says particularly about components, nothing about equipment. Also note that many semiconductor components which are made in China or in other country, often have dies diffused in some completely different country. For example I have analog devices ICs which are diffused in Ireland but assembled in Malaysia. It's very obvious if you look at AMD CPU's

As of where equipment is assembled. If you look at, say, printers, you'll have a hard time finding one which is made in China. Vast majority of them are made in Vietnam, be it Canon, HP or something else.

How do i put this so as to avoid conflict?

Ok... shoot..... This is most probably a tax evasion thing... by doing PART of a job on a component to a country which is actually importing it, it brings down taxes etc... at least it used to do when ie european companies went to China, leased a chinese factory for the duration of the production run for their order, this made their order an EU product avoiding import taxes etc.....

[Specmaster]

Quote from: wraper on Today at 03:12:35 AM

No, this tread is about components and that quote says particularly about components, nothing about equipment. Also note that many semiconductor components which are made in China or in other country, often have dies diffused in some completely different country. For example I have analog devices ICs which are diffused in Ireland but assembled in Malaysia. It's very obvious if you look at AMD CPU's

As of where equipment is assembled. If you look at, say, printers, you'll have a hard time finding one which is made in China. Vast majority of them are made in Vietnam, be it Canon, HP or something else.

How do i put this so as to avoid conflict?

Ok... shoot..... This is most probably a tax evasion thing... by doing PART of a job on a component to a country which is actually importing it, it brings down taxes etc... at least it used to do when ie european companies went to China, leased a chinese factory for the duration of the production run for their order, this made their order an EU product avoiding import taxes etc.....

Er no, if as you say they were an European company then going to China and leasing a factory does not mean their order is an European order therefore avoiding import taxes etc, they already are a European company. They go to China because the labour rates there are so low and the Chinese Government make it attractive to companies to go there and in turn boost the Chinese economy, that it is a financial gain to them and that often means the closing down of their European factories.

[wraper]

This is most probably a tax evasion thing... by doing PART of a job on a component to a country which is actually importing it, it brings down taxes etc... at least it used to do when ie european companies went to China, leased a chinese factory for the duration of the production run for their order, this made their order an EU product avoiding import taxes etc.....

This won't make taxes lower. They do the most important part of the job in much more advanced factory with tight control and do packaging somewhere else to save money. Do not forget that you cannot open a business in China yourself, more then half must be owned by Chinese. If you open semiconductor factory there, it means you give away/leak the most advanced technologies you have.

[bd139]

People do part of the manufacturing in China etc because it's insane running supply chain management half way across the planet. Lead times are bad enough without adding distance to the problem.

[paulca]

Anything to back your shit up?

Well at least if you look ar led modules on ebay, most of them are assembled from defective LEDs. Also look a Warhawk post obove about expierience with such leds. It's just much easier to notice defects when they are put in module if running those modules on low current.

So there have never been duff products sold be reputable manufacturers inside or outside of China?

It seems that Intel have been shipping duff insecure chips for the past ten years and if malware-ists figure out how to exploit it, it could be a game changer for IT security.

Granted the probability of a duff product being sold by dubious ebay sellers is higher.  However are we talking about duff chinese products or duff chinese sellers?  You can find duff sellers in every local market in every country.  The 'good' sellers remove a duff product from sale and accept returns, the 'duff' sellers continue to sell them and try and fob off returns/refunds.

[bd139]

You can find duff sellers in every local market in every country.  The 'good' sellers remove a duff product from sale and accept returns, the 'duff' sellers continue to sell them and try and fob off returns/refunds.

[wraper]

It seems that Intel have been shipping duff insecure chips for the past ten years and if malware-ists figure out how to exploit it, it could be a game changer for IT security.

Sorry, but mentioning security flaw in a super complex product is completely irrelevant to this topic.

The 'good' sellers remove a duff product from sale and accept returns, the 'duff' sellers continue to sell them and try and fob off returns/refunds.

I've yet to see a Chinese seller who stopped selling counterfeit product when been told so. Likely because seller knew this to begin with or just does not care.

[bd139]

I like my counterfeit products! 

[paulca]

Sorry, but mentioning security flaw in a super complex product is completely irrelevant to this topic.

I'm sorry, but it is.  As you seem to be implying that if you buy brand name from reputably suppliers they will meet their datasheet spec.  You are getting the milk of the goddesses direct from the teet.  There are dodgy products sold by reputable manufacturers and USA/UK companies that do NOT meet their most fundamental datasheet specs.

Have Intel/AMD/ARM processors been withdrawn from sale?  No.

Will Intel/AMD/ARM accept returns?  No.

Will Intel/AMD/ARM accept damage claims for when this gets exploited?  No.

Also, Intel knew about this long ago but didn't go public.

So whats the difference?

[paulca]

I like my counterfeit products! 

LOL.  If they work, why not?

I've had my failures with cheap goods, not just electronics, but I knew what I was getting into.

However I will stop short of saying "You get what you pay for", because in modern capitalism and marketing this is the biggest lie they want you to believe.  The price of goods has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how much they are worth to the manufacturer.  The price of goods is far more aligned with what they think you will pay.   The only connection costs of goods has to price is if the consumer will not pay "cost of goods" + "profit" then it's usually not worth making the product.  Although some manufacturers will sell sub cost for marketing purposes.

[Specmaster]

I've just looked at some of my gear to see where it was made.

Samsung Galaxy S3 phone Korea.
Samsung J5(2016) phone Vietnam but the battery which is original China.
Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro tablet gives the impression that its made in Yately, UK I doubt that because I think that is the UK office.
iPad Air, made in China
iPod Touch, made in China,
Acer Iconia tablets, Made in China
Power supply for a Korean monitor, made in China
Matsui DAB radio, made in China

[paulca]

Let's see how this unfolds.

Indeed.  I spotted a few news stories this morning suggesting it might not be fixable with a microcode patch/update.  If it's locked into hardware this is incredibly serious for the whole IT industry.

Intel/AMD are large companies, but replacing every active processor in operation that suffers the bug is not feasible.  Nor is running an insecure processor in production (or even in domestic).

With this bug, you can, I believe capture sensitive data from online banking applications, private cryptography keys, and even toggle access and authorisation bits in other processes memory.  It's like going back to the 8bit days and 16bit days of hacking games by hacking their memory.

[wraper]

I've yet to see a Chinese seller who stopped selling counterfeit product when been told so. Likely because seller knew this to begin with or just does not care.

They 100% know it, but I don't think they are knowingly scamming you. Living in China, you will gain a natural sense towards fake products just from the wording, whenever your guts tell you it's fake, then it's fake.

So it's likely they know it's fake, and they presume you know that, and you are willingly buying it for cheap. You can't just put "fake" in product description because eBay will unlist it, so if you want to sell a fake, use the fake wording instead.

Dunno, it says 100% Genuine when there is no chance this happening.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-Audio-OP-AMP-IC-ANALOG-DEVICES-SOP-8-AD797BR-AD797BRZ-100-Genuine-and-New/401446550787?epid=1946042631&hash=item5d78143d03:g:fdwAAOSwzXxaABPo

[Specmaster]

A product is only fake if it is sold and advertised as the real original thing that it is cloning and this can be done either the manufacturer if they brand as the original and make look exactly the same, or by the retailer/seller, in other words if you ask for a particular item from a reputable maker and they sell something that isn't then they are guilty of selling a fake item.

If an item looks the same or very similar but has a different brand name and proudly carries the name on it, the point of sale and or advertising makes no direct reference or hints to the original and carries a lower selling price then I don't believe that Ebay wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it or the seller because they are not misleading anyone.

[paulca]

Dunno, it says 100% Genuine when there is no chance this happening.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-Audio-OP-AMP-IC-ANALOG-DEVICES-SOP-8-AD797BR-AD797BRZ-100-Genuine-and-New/401446550787?epid=1946042631&hash=item5d78143d03:g:fdwAAOSwzXxaABPo

Can you prove it's fake?  Just because it's cheaper than mainstream western outlets doesn't make it so.

There was a recent case raised by Lacoste regarding retailers selling counterfeit t-shirts for 1/10th the price of the original.  Their counterfeiting suit failed as the shirts were found to be genuine articles just without the brand name mark up. 

[wraper]

Dunno, it says 100% Genuine when there is no chance this happening.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-Audio-OP-AMP-IC-ANALOG-DEVICES-SOP-8-AD797BR-AD797BRZ-100-Genuine-and-New/401446550787?epid=1946042631&hash=item5d78143d03:g:fdwAAOSwzXxaABPo

Can you prove it's fake?  Just because it's cheaper than mainstream western outlets doesn't make it so.

There was a recent case raised by Lacoste regarding retailers selling counterfeit t-shirts for 1/10th the price of the original.  Their counterfeiting suit failed as the shirts were found to be genuine articles just without the brand name mark up.

Genuine AD797 do not exist at this price, that's a well known fact among those who have a little clue about audio opamps. It's one of the most counterfeited opamps. Not to say that's a counterfeit part on the photo. Also I received fake UV EPROMs from them. AMD part from 80's with higer Vpp and completely different die sold as ST made in 2008.

[wraper]

There was a recent case raised by Lacoste regarding retailers selling counterfeit t-shirts for 1/10th the price of the original.  Their counterfeiting suit failed as the shirts were found to be genuine articles just without the brand name mark up.

Proof or this did not happen.

[paulca]

There was a recent case raised by Lacoste regarding retailers selling counterfeit t-shirts for 1/10th the price of the original.  Their counterfeiting suit failed as the shirts were found to be genuine articles just without the brand name mark up.

Proof or this did not happen.

I'm not searching for counterfeit goods in work! LOL

They were genuine shirts being sold out the back door of the factory.  So still illegal, but not counterfeiting.

[bd139]

This is normal for a lot of factories that produce the stuff. They do "night runs" which the bosses turn a blind eye to as they're getting a cash backhander. Where do you think those nice iPhone 6s cases come from that are exactly the same as the ones from Apple Store but only cost £4? Right out of the same factory!

[Specmaster]

Yep, there has always been a back door into most factories and I think that there will always be one as long as people are involved in the manufacturing process.

[wraper]

This is normal for a lot of factories that produce the stuff. They do "night runs" which the bosses turn a blind eye to as they're getting a cash backhander. Where do you think those nice iPhone 6s cases come from that are exactly the same as the ones from Apple Store but only cost £4? Right out of the same factory!

Bull fucking shit, that's a bedtime story for kids told by counterfeit and replica sellers. Sure this can happen sometimes but not nearly in such quantities.

exactly the same

No they are not, they can be very very close in their looks but not 100% the same.