Choosing a career

[AlexR]

Hi,
I`m a student at the Faculty of Automatic Control in Bucharest. It is rated as the best engeneering faculty in the country. I`am wondering what career path should I chose.

I like electronics and I like to program microcontrollers, I can do some OOP programming, I can write basic Verilog code, I meet concepts as 'stability' every day.

My question is: do I have chances to go further with electronics ? I did a few electronics projects, like a linefollower robot but I wonder how much I need to know to do good in this industry.

In Bucharest there are a lot of jobs for software but I`am not really into all that web, database and high-level programming. Also, there a not as many electronics-related jobs around, and I wonder if not graduating from a Electronic/Telecomunication faculty is a big draw-back for me.

[Kjelt]

every country is different but what I see here is that HW electronic jobs are getting scarce since much is now designed and made in the far east, low level embedded programming and OO programming is also moving in rapid pace towards esp. India where >100000 programmers a year graduate.
But that is for the large(r) corporations/companies. So my advice try to be as broad as possible if you really like HW also learn how to program emb. uC's but also emb. Linux boards and get after graduation in contact with a small/medium companies that keeps on doing things on their own.
Probably you'll end up with a broad job doing more than one discipline and having broad knowledge gives you more chances on the jobmarket.

[zapta]

In Bucharest there are a lot of jobs for software but I`am not really into all that web, database and high-level programming. Also, there a not as many electronics-related jobs around, and I wonder if not graduating from a Electronic/Telecomunication faculty is a big draw-back for me.

In general it's easier to switch from hardware to software than vice versa so an EE degree with some complementary courses in CS will give you the most options.

You are planing for a career of 40 years or so and the industry will change a few times along the way so a wide theoretical background will make it easier to adapt.

One more advice, once you get your degree, don't restrict yourself to jobs in your locality/country.

[rrinker]

 

 My degree is in EE, but I've barely ever worked as what you would consider an EE, and ended up in computer networking and programming these past 27+ years. Part of that is that I was always interested in computers as well as electronic design, but I knew that I did not want to study programming algorithms in depth for a typical CS degree, and part just how things worked out at my first post-university job. My boss at the job was an EE from Romania who moved to the US for more opportunities. Over the years I've dabbled in EE stuff, but it was running across Dave's YouTube channel that has really sucked me back into the EE side. At this point in my life though, changing to an EE career is most likely out, I'm doing well as a computer consultant and have 13+ years in with the same firm, and not too many places would want to hire a 50 year old green EE.
 Best thing I can say - keep your options open. Life rarely turns out how we plan it. I had two job offers I was considering post graduation, and the one took too long in getting back to me after offering me an interview. That would have been a pure EE job, on the opposite side of the US. The one I took was more local and led me more to the computer side of things, and as such I've lived and worked (outside of business trips) within about a 50 mile radius of where I grew up. I just think about how everything would have been different had I gone with the other place on the opposite coast. Maybe better, maybe not. I'm generally pleased with my lot in life and to wish it were otherwise is an exercise in futility.

[Gyro]

There's a lot to be said for going with what you enjoy the most (as long as it will pay the bills).

As zapta said it is a lot easier for a H/W engineer to get into S/W than the other way around. Electronics + embedded code is a happy medium, but seems increasingly hard to achieve these days as many companies seem to try to split H/W and S/W teams.

It's good that you have the basics of Verilog, In terms of job prospects, there always seems to be a demand for H/W engineers who can do FPGA. With increasing levels of integration, I can't see that trend changing anytime soon. Remember that it's important to remain 'well rounded' - hands-on stuff and practical analogue, but I think you have the inclination to do that anyway (even if in your own time).

[Fraser]

I can only speak from my personal experience.

I got my various qualifications and I was told that I should go into electronics research and development as a career. For me that sounded a bit  like being a hermit in a lab...... No thanks.

I trained as a Merchant Marine radio officer in order to tour the world looking after radio kit on a ship, which was a passion of mine. Sadly the British Merchant fleet was in decline and so I was recruited into a Government department that needed my skill set and ability to work independent of oversight and guidance. I have seen more of the world in my career than my brother, and he is in the Royal Navy !

I wanted a career that I would enjoy, even if it meant I would never be rich from it. I have had a good life working in very interesting specialist areas that you would never find in general industry. Job satisfaction was ever present in the role and it provided plenty of challenges for the mind.

What I am saying is that you need to decide whether you want to chase the money, moving from employer to employer to increase salary, or whether you want a long term job that you really enjoy and that has rewards other than money. I have just retired at age 47 and have no regrets regarding my chosen career. It was a wild ride, I have learnt much and seen many areas of the world and it's different populations. If I had been stuck in a lab for 27 years I think I would have missed much valuable life experience, and maybe regretted it. I am not rich, but I have been able to retire at 47 with a nice new 4 bedroom  home and wonderful wife....... Not a bad result and I hopefully have plenty of years left in me to 'play'.

Never forget the importance of the Work - Life balance. Your life is too short to do a long term job you do not truly enjoy.

Fraser

[jpb]

It is very difficult to plan a career - real life tends to shift around you.

My approach has always been to stay technical and do what I enjoy doing. If you want to make money then you are probably better off moving onto a management path but then it is difficult to keep doing the technical stuff you enjoy.

My first degree was in Engineering specialising in Electronics, I then went into research in Microwave Integrated Circuits and went on to join with a couple of other engineers to found a company. We had a lot of fun but the GaAs industry disappeared from the UK and so I shifted to Computer Science.

Whilst you are young, get a job doing that you enjoy (Electronics/Software) - just be careful not to get in a rut. If you find you're not doing anything new and are not being challenged then it is time to move on or work for yourself or whatever life offers.

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

Choosing something "trendy" usually a safe bet - you will get good kick start in career early, you just need to check if trend is the long term one.

Mechatronics is a very good promising choice now. I am not sure if your local schools have this course. Control Systems is good old discipline that will give you broad choices of where to go in future. Avoid things like Computer Science - it may attractive in terms of employment, but it limits choices that you can make in future. You can always go into Software Development if you choose with an EE degree but reverse is very hard.

[cobbler]

Make sure when you are searching for jobs you have a targeted resume.

Do a survey of the job market and take notes... Note every technical job you are remotely interested in... your notes should end up with some rough numbers like this:


1% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in microwave experience
2% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in board layout
8% of jobs are for sw developer strong in C++
10% of jobs are for sw developers strong in mySQL and PHP/Python
15% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in testing
25% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in Verilog, Mechatronics, C++
40% of jobs are for sw developers strong in .NET and SQL Server


After you have those rough stats compiled it is time to write 7 separate HIGHLY TARGETED resumes.

For all the electronic resumes, write verbosely about every programming language you've ever touched, make it at least two pages full of every damn keyword and buzzword you can possibly think of. Use a thesaurus to make sure you every possible variation of these keywords and buzzwords. But most of the language should not be buzzwords, it should describe in excruciating detail every electronic project you touched since you were ten years old. Mention EVERYTHING technical- programming, electronics, design, testing, etc.  From the stats above, you should have 4 targeted electronic resumes. Each should be targeted to the specialty: microwave, boards, testing, mechatronics.

For all the programming resumes, write verbosely about every programming language you've ever touched, make it at least two pages full of every damn keyword and buzzword you can possibly think of. Use a thesaurus to make sure you every possible variation of these keywords and buzzwords. But most of the language should not be buzzwords, it should describe in excruciating detail every software project you touched since you were ten years old. Mention 97% only  programming/db/sysadmin. Max 1% mention electronics.  From the stats above, you should have 3 targeted programming resumes. Each should be targeted to the specialty: C++, PHP/Python/Mysql, .NET/SQL

So now you have your 7 highly targeted resumes.  Create two more named:

Software.docx - 4 pages and is rollup of ALL keywords for every language/db
Electronics.docx - 4 pages and is rollup of ALL keywords for every electronic specialty


Post those two resumes to every single major EU related web job board you can find.  Since these two resumes are loaded with keywords the frontline hiring folks will find your resume first. You have cast a very wide net with this approach.


TIP: If you login to every job board and edit your DOCX resume (just add a hidden period char)... this updates the "lastModified" date in the job board SQL table.... Most job boards SELECT * FROM resumes WHERE keywords LIKE '%{kewords}%' ORDER  BY lastModified DESC.


If you are diligent and update these two resumes every day on the job boards then recruiters should start contacting you. They will say- "We are looking for an electronic engineer strong with testing." Note their contact info and visit the company website. Read the job description really carefully. Open ElectronicsTesting.docx  and do a one-time edit that speaks directly to the  Job Description. Now send this turbocharged highly targeted resume and make sure they pass that on to the real hiring people. That will increase your chances of having your resume escaping the trashbin.


So now your two mega resumes are on all the big EU job boards. Time to start applying for jobs. For every job you are interested in read the job description carefully and edit the targeted resume to speak directly to the Job Description. This will increase your chances of having your resume escaping the trashbin.


When you are not job searching... lock yourself in your study and do every single project you can think of, touching on the things that interest you but also get experienced and familiar with the things that don't interest you so much. For example you may not be excited about electronics testing, but since 15% of the jobs are for electronics testing it would be wise to get really truly experienced with that first. Good way to get your foot in the door.

Totally ignore these two resume "rules"
1) Keep your resume to one page
2) Don't put your picture on your resume

Make sure your resume is at least two or three pages, and has your professional photo in the header.

I have 43 targeted resumes and they are all 3-6 pages long. Never been so employed in all my life.

Writing resumes really well is probably the most profitable thing you will ever do in your lifetime. And the most realistic way to get the job you are looking for. There is a real art in balancing the bullshit and writing really, really well.


HTH and good luck mang 

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

People like to give lots of opinions and suggestions on subject like this. It is hard to avoid common pitfalls in your career in the beginning but they can be corrected. I found few things that I think I should have done better myself

1. What matters in engineer's career most is PROJECTS that you worked on. People in industry often judge others at first by association to projects and companies. Example - for a physicist to be part of Manhattan project was a super great deal. For a computer engineer to work on system like IBM 360 or Tandem (later HP Non-stop). etc. etc. Reality is that even if your role was only printing documents and stapling them together - it does not seem to matter - involvement with notorious project will open doors for you like nothing else and then it depends on your personal abilities how you use it! So find one like this - you will never regret, but to do that you have to be ready to quit your job no matter the pay if project is boolshit. If you keep looking and ready to start - something awesome will pop up, you cannot predict what it will be now so don't even try  If you start too feel comfortable about your job/pay and don't want to move - this is it. It is the begging of the END of your career.

2. To start career you need a MENTOR(s) and/or future business PARTNER(s) - if your new job does not provide you with any of these then move on, fast - there will be no career without those. If you got a job and your boss likes you, promotes you, ... but he/she cannot be your mentor and there is nobody around to learn from - you are too young to get stuck there. No, courses, boot camps and books do not replace professional mentors!

3. Right out of school - you are fresh on everything, your math, physics, your control theory etc. Try to use this opportunity to get some "credentials". For example in U.S. that would be Professional Engineer certifications etc. It is sooooo much harder to do 5 years after graduation.

4. You will never, ever be happy with your career if other people make decisions for you ALL YOUR LONG LIFE. Think about starting your own company early!

[tszaboo]

In my experience, good engineers doing technical work tend to drive a used ford focus, with some loan on it. Complete morons clicking around in Excel and ERP tend to drive stupidly expensive cars, which they can afford.
I think I will go back to school to do a MiM or MBA, and play with electronics in the corner office.

[MrSlack]

I can only say that I would learn from my mistake and avoid accidentally ending up writing business software for a living. Most of my team is ex electrical and mechanical engineers. The cash is really good but it's a depressing tar pit of pain and we all lament the days when we had firesticks and lathes instead of ThinkPads, facepalm imprints and dodgy necks from all the slow head shaking we have to do.

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

O, I forgot to mention the most important thing  YOU MUST MOVE TO US PACIFIC COAST to have any good engineering career with decent pay. Unfortunately Europe is ...  Don't even make me to start comparing average salaries for engineers in LA or Seattle to Europe.

Money is not the most important thing even - Pacific Coast is the place where all things engineering happen now. That is the place where you can meet 5 different multi-billion VC in cafeteria at lunch.

[vodka]

YOU MUST MOVE TO US PACIFIC COAST

Why do you stay in Canada when  you can earn more money and  you stay an important corporation?
That is a stuff that impress me , when  i hear news that  important corporations moves out  the California to Texas

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

YOU MUST MOVE TO US PACIFIC COAST

Why do you stay in Canada when  you can earn more money and  you stay an important corporation?
That is a stuff that impress me , when  i hear news that  important corporations moves out  the California to Texas

Well ... this is where am on weekends   Also you can be missing my point - if you are new engineering graduate - Pacific Coast, LA, is place to be. If you do well then you can later choose place where you would like to live.

Texas - they move headquarters there, legal address, registration for tax purposes. Today it is Texas tomorrow it will be Rhode Island. Companies often change registered business location to get better deals on taxes - it is often purely symbolic, it does not mean R&D departments with engineers move too. In Canada some companies moved their headquarters to Alberta for same reason - but everyone would still go to office in Vancouver every day. 

[ECEdesign]

Very interesting thread 

[Kjelt]

I can only say that I would learn from my mistake and avoid accidentally ending up writing business software for a living.

Ok business software is another end of the spectrum. But reality is that every modern product is 10% hardware and 90% software fte. That is the opposite of thirty years ago.
So writing embedded software or ontop of an embedded OS is probably more realistic then HW.
Sometimes I regret it but now it starts to change when I see my HW colleagues have no freedom att all anymore and again for the third time in three years need to redesign the same product with each time a target of half the BOM of the previous product.
They don,t like it at all, it means they have to let go of their engineering pride and start to make less good products because the BOM target is way too low.

[con-f-use]

I think I will go back to school to do a MiM or MBA, and play with electronics in the corner office.

The tragedy with this is, that while you'd be virtually guaranteed to get the degree, you'd be miserable while attaining and putting it to use. It's the fate of people who don't follow (or don't know) their interests. I'm not one of the lucky who enjoy juggling money and public relations.

[ade]

For a computer engineer to work on system like IBM 360 or Tandem (later HP Non-stop). etc. etc.

Those systems are largely obsolete!! Unless you're planning on doing niche work, you almost don't want to have them in your resume...

Right out of school - you are fresh on everything, your math, physics, your control theory etc. Try to use this opportunity to get some "credentials". For example in U.S. that would be Professional Engineer certifications etc. It is sooooo much harder to do 5 years after graduation.

One cannot get a Professional Engineer (PE) certification "right out of school".  By law, most jurisdictions require a minimum of 4 years of post-University professional working experience (in a job position requiring an engineering degree) as a prerequisite to a PE designation.

[ECEdesign]

One cannot get a Professional Engineer (PE) certification "right out of school".  By law, most jurisdictions require a minimum of 4 years of post-University professional working experience (in a job position requiring an engineering degree) as a prerequisite to a PE designation.

It is a good idea to take the FE while in college/graduating while your skills are fresh. 

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

Those systems are largely obsolete!! Unless you're planning on doing niche work, you almost don't want to have them in your resume...

Of course they are obsolete  I could not give an example of project if it has not been started yet. If you just starting your career you need to look for a team that GOING TO create next "nuclear bomb", "next tandem" etc. What is going to be as big as those in future? Perhaps some company like D-Wave?

Or in other words you cannot shoot a duck or a plane if you aim right at it - you should aim in front of it. I think same principle applies to building a successful career.

Look at hype curve BACK from 2009 - you see Tablet PC and other stuff, so If I was looking where to go in 2009 I would look at things on the right side of curve, not at the top of it. It is trivial thing but I noticed that many graduates I have met at work miss that completely.

One cannot get a Professional Engineer (PE) certification "right out of school".  By law, most jurisdictions require a minimum of 4 years of post-University professional working experience (in a job position requiring an engineering degree) as a prerequisite to a PE designation.

Yup, as someone already noticed - I referred to FE exams.

[tszaboo]

I think I will go back to school to do a MiM or MBA, and play with electronics in the corner office.

The tragedy with this is, that while you'd be virtually guaranteed to get the degree, you'd be miserable while attaining and putting it to use. It's the fate of people who don't follow (or don't know) their interests. I'm not one of the lucky who enjoy juggling money and public relations.

Right now, I'm doing like 10% of my time engineering tasks. The rest is data entry, library maintanance, some oddball soldering here and there (technicians), verification (engineer assistant), and a bunch of tasks, which should be done by managers.
I am told that I'm a good engineer. Corporate recognizes that. As an engineer, to work effectively, to put the knowledge into use, to be able to make decisions which matter, you need to become one of the manager positions. Otherwise you are stuck with mundane tasks, because everycompany in capitalism cheaps out on support staff.
I remember, I was talking to a guy, he was working in the bad communist era, as an engineer. He told me, he had a secretary and a apprentice working for him, in his office. They were there, because everyone had to have jobs, and this way he could focus more on the actual engineering tasks. You don't get that in capitalism, you need to be a manager to do that. I had to learn this the hard way. It is sad.

[Kjelt]

I will take a totally different standpoint from my earlier advice: do not listen to anybody on this forum, they and I are the old garde, the people that do and did the old jobs.
Go take a look for what is needed for in and after the next "Fourth Industrial Revolution" and be sure you are flexible to jump in at the right time.

In many industries and countries, the most in-demand occupations or specialties did not exist 10 or even five years ago, and the pace of change is set to accelerate. By one popular estimate, 65% of children entering primary school today will ultimately end up working in completely new job types that don’t yet exist.1 In such a rapidly evolving employment landscape, the ability to anticipate and prepare for future skills requirements, job content and the aggregate effect on employment is increasingly critical for businesses, governments and individuals in order to fully seize the opportunities presented by these trends—and to mitigate undesirable outcomes

http://reports.weforum.org/future-of-jobs-2016/
http://reports.weforum.org/future-of-jobs-2016/chapter-1-the-future-of-jobs-and-skills/

[ade]

I have yet a different take.  Don't try to predict the future.  Don't worry about any job revolution, and definitely don't look at Gartner et al to give you direction on what's coming (they don't know).

Instead, use your time at university to build solid fundamentals.  Cast a very wide net... not just of math, physics, chemistry, comp sci, circuits, etc., but also literature, music, sociology, business, or whatever else interests you.

Then you don't have to care about the changes which are coming because you have the foundation to go anywhere.

This is the big difference between the university system and the vocational school system (such as a technical college).  In a vocational program you learn skills and technologies which may be directly applicable to particular job descriptions, but those skills and job descriptions may become obsolete.

In a university program, you build fundamentals through liberal education.  You learn not to fit yourself to any particular career or job description, but so you can adapt to whatever opportunities may come in the future.

[Kjelt]

Unfortunately a "homo universalis" is extinct since the rennaissance. You need indept knowledge and experience in a certain area, you can't be a rockstar in all fields of life.