Choosing the right PCB software - Problems with Eagle

[danb35]

"The fact that $SOFTWARE_PACKAGE doesn't run natively on $MY_OS makes it less useful to me."

is not the same thing as

"$SOFTWARE_PACKAGE sucks because it doesn't run natively on $MY_OS."

mathsquid's comment wrt Diptrace was in the form of the first statement, but some have responded as though it were in the form of the second.  A bit more care in reading would have saved everybody on this thread quite a bit of time.

[Monkeh]

"The fact that $SOFTWARE_PACKAGE doesn't run natively on $MY_OS makes it less useful to me."

is not the same thing as

"$SOFTWARE_PACKAGE sucks because it doesn't run natively on $MY_OS."

mathsquid's comment wrt Diptrace was in the form of the first statement, but some have responded as though it were in the form of the second.  A bit more care in reading would have saved everybody on this thread quite a bit of time.

The biased and arrogant are incapable of parsing such statements correctly, I'm afraid.

[Rigby]

Virtual machines are pretty great, and require no extra hardware, and only free software to run.  Give VirtualBox a try.

If you don't have enough spare RAM or disk or whatever to run a WinXP machine and [insert software] then you probably need new hardware anyway.

[rdl]

You can install and run Windows 7 for free. You'll have to reinstall (or maybe restore) every 4 months, but that's no big deal (and there's probably ways around that). If you have a lot of software that has to be "installed", then maybe it won't work for you, but most software can run without actually installing it, just put it on a separate drive and run it from a shortcut or just look for "portable" versions.

[John Coloccia]

I don't worry about nonsense like the OS.  If it's a package I want, and it's only available on Mac, I buy a Mac.  If I want it, and it's only on a PC, I get a PC.  Some of us have actual real work to get done, and maybe even a lot of hobbyists aren't into screwing around because of some dumb, philosophical objection to the OS.  I bought my first PC in 5 years because I needed it to run my CAD program.  Big deal.  Cost isn't even an issue anymore.  I can get a refurbished, 3 year old computer for $150, a used flat panel for $15, and keyboard/mice for practically nothing.  The computer running the host software for my CNC machine cost me less than $200 with a Windows license.  My little Linux box acting as a Terabyte backup RAID cost about $100, not including the disks.  Even my 3D CAD system cost me well under $1000, that was new, and that has a workstation class video card in it.

So whatever.  I think most of us have better things to do.

[LukeW]

For all the people out there who make "Eagle sucks, it's so shit", or "KiCAD sucks, hard to use" posts, these sorts of statements are completely meaningless unless you have experience doing schematic capture and PCB layout using multiple different software packages, and you're actually making meaningful comparisons between different alternatives that you've got experience with.

If you're just starting out doing this without any experience with other software that archives the same result, it's silly to cry and protest that software X is so shit and hard to use.

If you're just starting out with EDA/CAD/CAM software and any schematic capture and board layout on a PC then obviously it will be a bit tricky to get started out, lots of learning curve - and this is completely independent of what software you use. There's a learning curve for a beginner with KiCAD, or for Altium, or Diptrace, or Eagle, or whatever. All software of this type intrinsically has a fairly complex interface and lots of things to control.

Also, learning things like the fact that autorouting sucks, or how to make a good layout, how to draw a neat schematic, how to design a PCB for manufacturability - these are just general things to learn, they are completely independent of what software you choose.

And the actual user experience of using the software to draw a schematic or PCB layout is not the be all and end all factor - there are other factors too. Such as cost, ease of installation, commercial support from the developer (versus "support" from some "don't use Linux? Then get lost YOU'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM" bearded 30 year old in Mum's basement), ease of installation and use on the operating system that you choose to use are also factors you might consider, and these may involve a trade off with some software usability. Prior time invested in a particular software package is also a factor. If you already know Altium well, but you decide that KiCAD is cheaper so you get KiCAD but then you need to spend a month of your professional time learning KiCAD to the same level that you already know Altium instead of actually just using Altium to do the job and get paid, then it might be economically more attractive to just go and pay for your $8000 license.

[LukeW]

Tell that to the scientists and engineers at CERN.  Apparently they've adopted kicad as their software of choice.  Asshat.

Citation needed.

[Rigby]

I don't worry about nonsense like the OS.  If it's a package I want, and it's only available on Mac, I buy a Mac.  If I want it, and it's only on a PC, I get a PC.  Some of us have actual real work to get done, and maybe even a lot of hobbyists aren't into screwing around because of some dumb, philosophical objection to the OS.

Perfectly said.  This is my point, precisely.  If you're doing work, the OS should not matter.  It is the work that matters, and you obtain the tools required to achieve the goal of completing the work.  Religiousness and zealotry have no place in the decision.

[M0BSW]

I've just started  trying to use software like this ,I don't know which is or is not the best, I'm using diptrace, not sure how this stacks up , but slowly I'm kind of getting used to it, I know without doubt I'm not the right person to offer any advice on Software, for me diptrace seems to work.

[John Coloccia]

I've just started  trying to use software like this ,I don't know which is or is not the best, I'm using diptrace, not sure how this stacks up , but slowly I'm kind of getting used to it, I know without doubt I'm not the right person to offer any advice on Software, for me diptrace seems to work.

Diptrace is absurdly inexpensive and easy to use.  Their component libraries aren't very good, but their Component and Pattern editor are SOOO good that I just don't care.  I just make all of my own components that I use.  I made one yesterday....a SPST, ON-Off-ON switch.  From start to finish, including layout of the mounting holes for the snap-in bracket, I don't think I spent more than 5 minutes on it.

It's not Altium, but it's not $7500 either.  For smaller projects, it's very hard to beat, IMHO.  I probably wouldn't use it to lay out a motherboard, or some sort of high speed or controlled impedance application.  It's really good for basic digital and analog electronics.

I wish SPICE programs would copy their schematic capture interface.