Circuitmaker vs Eagle vs KiCad vs ??

[jsi]

Hi everyone.  I’ve spent the last couple of days evaluating PCB design software.  So far Eagle, Circuitmaker, Circuit Studio, and KiCad have been installed and I’ve found things to like and dislike about all of them. Circuit Studio has been eliminated because at $995 it’s way, way too expensive for this hobbyist.  IMHO all of the interfaces have a steep learning curve, every software has their fan/hate boys, so it's a wash on those points. 

Now to my question.  Circuitmaker has one feature that stands out and that is their parts library.  I really like how by rolling the mouse over the part it shows the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet.  I really don't like Circuitmaker's forced lock into the platform and forced sharing of designs, but the parts library is a really compelling feature. Does anyone know if there are other PCB design tools that have a similar feature?

(it maybe that I've missed the obvious or another package I should look at, but I did say that the learning curves are steep  )

[JPortici]

diptrace

[jsi]

diptrace

Are you saying diptrace because it has the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet feature?  Because if it does it sure doesn't mention it anywhere obvious.

[apelly]

I use KiCAD. It's fine. Really.

This is a hot topic around here, and you'll arouse the free/opensource/getwhatyoupayfor/fixityourself/proffesionalsbuytools arguments. I won't bother with all that, but KiCAD is fine. No limits. Very capable. Actively maintained and developed.

My advice would be to grab the current stable version and get stuck into your project. The documentation is comprehensive, there is an active users mailing list, and you'll be able to google for Chris Gammel's (sp?) video introduction to get you started.

Addressing your parts library concerns: KiCAD will do all that for you, and has extensive libraries available, but you will develop your own anyway. It doesn't take long to make a part. You have to go over the footprints with a fine-toothed comb to check them the first time you use them anyway.

[MarkF]

diptrace

Are you saying diptrace because it has the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet feature?  Because if it does it sure doesn't mention it anywhere obvious.

I like Diptrace because the GUI is esay and quick to learn.  Also,  it's easy to  create your own parts.  Lastly,  SilverCircuits accepts the Diptrace files directly for PCB manufacturing.

[Dago]

diptrace

Are you saying diptrace because it has the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet feature?  Because if it does it sure doesn't mention it anywhere obvious.

I like Diptrace because the GUI is esay and quick to learn.  Also,  it's easy to  create your own parts.  Lastly,  SilverCircuits accepts the Diptrace files directly for PCB manufacturing.

Seconded, IMO DipTrace is the best bang for the buck.

[tooki]

Bearing in mind that I'm constrained by which EDA apps are available for Mac, I found them all to be frustrating to use. Or buggy. Or both. (I didn't try diptrace yet, so I'll give it a shot since so many of you are recommending it.)

For a recent little project I ended up using EasyEDA, a Chinese Web based tool. But there's no way it could handle bigger projects.

[JPortici]

diptrace

Are you saying diptrace because it has the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet feature?  Because if it does it sure doesn't mention it anywhere obvious.

precisely.
the pricing is very reasonable too, IMHO
libraries are still some kind of a mess, i always have to add some new parts.. but who doesn't? worst case scenario pick up a generic symbol and attach a different pattern (eagle apparently has had this feature since only a couple of revision ago. it was a god damn nightmare even to change resistor packages -replace part didn't work all the time- i ditched that crap as soon as i could)
now diptrace also exports as an ascii file for those who wants to do versioning
The UI is so many times better to me too.. if i don't have the button on the toolbar -like unpour all- i just add a hotkey.
i can't get around with kicad unfortunately (though i didn't try that hard, i wasn't actively looking for reasons to switch to another program after diptrace) but they say that if you manage to it will be a very powerful EDA
Circuitmaker, i don't see the point in something i can't use offline/can't add my parts/can't keep project private or whatever idiocy is left in it.

In the two attachements you see a part with all the fields describing it... and the attachement pattern function. i can use a totally different one, rearrange pins as my liking, change names, look at the dimensions etc. It will work only for selected parts/patterns in the project. to changeit globally one has to change things from the part editor and then update the part in the project

Bearing in mind that I'm constrained by which EDA apps are available for Mac, I found them all to be frustrating to use. Or buggy. Or both. (I didn't try diptrace yet, so I'll give it a shot since so many of you are recommending it.)

do it! i sticked with it also because my main computer is a macbook. they finally fixed 3d rendering (at lieast on yosemite), it is a WINE bottled program so it runs as smootly as on windows

[JacquesBBB]

Bearing in mind that I'm constrained by which EDA apps are available for Mac, I found them all to be frustrating to use. Or buggy. Or both. (I didn't try diptrace yet, so I'll give it a shot since so many of you are recommending it.)

For a recent little project I ended up using EasyEDA, a Chinese Web based tool. But there's no way it could handle bigger projects.

Eagle works well on a mac.
It is free for boards up tp 80 * 100 mm.

[Simon]

I don't know why anyone would recommend diptrace, it's a night mare. Progress on it is so slow and it has a way to go. Same for KiCAD (but that is free so you can't complain), for £180 you can get proteus if your desperate to be cheap.

[zapta]

I don't know why anyone would recommend diptrace, it's a night mare.

Tried it last night again on my Mac OSX, after reading this thread. Didn't like it at all, not the look of it, not the library search, and not the navigation. Expected a more intuitive GUI.  I am also sampling Kicad every 6-12 months, but don't like the disconnect between the schematic and PCB.  Still looking for a good replacement for my faithful eagle.  Tools that don't support windows/linux/mac are out of question for me since they provide less value for open source projects.

[tooki]

Bearing in mind that I'm constrained by which EDA apps are available for Mac, I found them all to be frustrating to use. Or buggy. Or both. (I didn't try diptrace yet, so I'll give it a shot since so many of you are recommending it.)

For a recent little project I ended up using EasyEDA, a Chinese Web based tool. But there's no way it could handle bigger projects.

Eagle works well on a mac.
It is free for boards up tp 80 * 100 mm.

Yes, it "works". But the usability is simply atrociously bad. After a half hour I was borderline suicidal!

[zapta]

Yes, it "works". But the usability is simply atrociously bad. After a half hour I was borderline suicidal!

Usability is subjective. This is why it's useful to actually try a few packages and see which one clicks with you. 

[Augustus]

I use KiCad. For me as a Hobbyist it has all it needs and it is free and unlimited. The "free" Version of Eagle strictly prohibits all commercial use and it is not exactly clear to me if I'm even allowed to give away some boards created with it (asking just my own costs) to friends. So why should I bother with Eagle... 

[jsi]

diptrace

Are you saying diptrace because it has the parts specs, prices, availability and links to the data sheet feature?  Because if it does it sure doesn't mention it anywhere obvious.

precisely.
the pricing is very reasonable too, IMHO
libraries are still some kind of a mess, i always have to add some new parts.. but who doesn't? worst case scenario pick up a generic symbol and attach a different pattern (eagle apparently has had this feature since only a couple of revision ago. it was a god damn nightmare even to change resistor packages -replace part didn't work all the time- i ditched that crap as soon as i could)
now diptrace also exports as an ascii file for those who wants to do versioning
The UI is so many times better to me too.. if i don't have the button on the toolbar -like unpour all- i just add a hotkey.
i can't get around with kicad unfortunately (though i didn't try that hard, i wasn't actively looking for reasons to switch to another program after diptrace) but they say that if you manage to it will be a very powerful EDA
Circuitmaker, i don't see the point in something i can't use offline/can't add my parts/can't keep project private or whatever idiocy is left in it.

In the two attachements you see a part with all the fields describing it... and the attachement pattern function. i can use a totally different one, rearrange pins as my liking, change names, look at the dimensions etc. It will work only for selected parts/patterns in the project. to changeit globally one has to change things from the part editor and then update the part in the project

Bearing in mind that I'm constrained by which EDA apps are available for Mac, I found them all to be frustrating to use. Or buggy. Or both. (I didn't try diptrace yet, so I'll give it a shot since so many of you are recommending it.)

do it! i sticked with it also because my main computer is a macbook. they finally fixed 3d rendering (at lieast on yosemite), it is a WINE bottled program so it runs as smootly as on windows

OK I'll give diptrace a try.  I'm willing to pay, to a point, for a good software.  I want to choose wisely at the beginning with a software that starts out  free but can grow with me as my needs increase. 

The folks at Circuit Studio need to break their pricing into tiers.  A 30 day trial and then the next step is $995 is too big of a jump for the home player.

[tooki]

Yes, it "works". But the usability is simply atrociously bad. After a half hour I was borderline suicidal!

Usability is subjective. This is why it's useful to actually try a few packages and see which one clicks with you.

Weeellll… user satisfaction is subjective. Usability is actually measurable. (Not that I performed a quantitative usability test, though my experience as a usability professional does give me some qualification to call my testing of it a mini "expert review".) In the half hour I tried it out, I found it to operate contrary to platform conventions (for Mac and Windows at least), had destructive commands without confirmation, etc. etc. etc. I totally recognize that professional tools are entitled to steeper learning curves than software for novices, but then there's just bad design, and Eagle (and KiCad) is very bad design.

[Simon]

The problem with diptrace is that the support is Putin style. They are always right and there is nothing wrong with their software. If you push them you find out there is only one developer that decided to have kids. They dish out peaice meal updates with no increase in quality of software. with Proteus I can ring them up and they will happily spend 15 minutes on the phone helping me.

[jsi]

I use KiCad. For me as a Hobbyist it has all it needs and it is free and unlimited. The "free" Version of Eagle strictly prohibits all commercial use and it is not exactly clear to me if I'm even allowed to give away some boards created with it (asking just my own costs) to friends. So why should I bother with Eagle... 

From this beginner's point of view all of these packages have a huge learning curve.  Of the 3 packages in the title KiCad is in second place, because of their libraries.  When I tried to add a common part to my test project it was lacking a footprint.  My thought was "do I have to build every part from scratch?! I'd gladly pay to have them already created."  I'm going to try diptrace tonight and see how that goes.  As it stands right now Eagle and Circuitmaker are tied.  It's kind of like Trump and Clinton, there is a lot to dislike about both of them 

[tooki]

The problem with diptrace is that the support is Putin style. They are always right and there is nothing wrong with their software. If you push them you find out there is only one developer that decided to have kids. They dish out peaice meal updates with no increase in quality of software.

The mental image of Putin doing phone support!!! 

Proteus I can ring them up and they will happily spend 15 minutes on the phone helping me.

At those prices, they'd better!

[Simon]

No program comes with complete and dependable libraries. I found one fuck up in the proteus library with pad sizes for a SOT363 chip being 1/4 the size of what they should have been. I am creating each and ever part myself including doing my own 3D models with my name on them as I tend to export the boards as 3D models for mechanical fitment and design.

[Simon]

The problem with diptrace is that the support is Putin style. They are always right and there is nothing wrong with their software. If you push them you find out there is only one developer that decided to have kids. They dish out peaice meal updates with no increase in quality of software.

The mental image of Putin doing phone support!!! 

Proteus I can ring them up and they will happily spend 15 minutes on the phone helping me.

At those prices, they'd better!

Well the basic version is £180, I can't remember what I paid for Diptrace just over half but they soon came for more money offering virtually no improvement. I have told labcentre that not allowing cusatom copper pours in the basic version is extremely stupid but all I can say is they are from yorkshire and therefore very dense.

[Augustus]

When I tried to add a common part to my test project it was lacking a footprint.  My thought was "do I have to build every part from scratch?! I'd gladly pay to have them already created." 

OTOH, creating footprints in KiCad is really easy, it never bothered me much if I had to do one 

[JPortici]

I don't know why anyone would recommend diptrace, it's a night mare. Progress on it is so slow and it has a way to go. Same for KiCAD (but that is free so you can't complain), for £180 you can get proteus if your desperate to be cheap.

To me eagle is a POS software with very bad design choices and gives me the slowest most painful workflow of all the EDA i've used but what they say, to each one is own

interesting thing about the developer... still, doesn't miss anything that eagle have i think

[rdl]

I haven't done any board layouts for a while, but I found Diptrace very easy to get used to. I don't use any of the pre-made libraries, I always made mine from scratch so I'd know they were right. It's trivially easy.

The last version of Eagle I looked at was 4.3 (I think). The interface was bizarre, as if designed by aliens from some other world. I managed to make one board with it then deleted the whole mess. The only thing it had going for it was the price (free). Maybe it has gotten better in more recent versions.

[dferyance]

I've been playing around with Circuit Maker lately and really like it. It requires accepting the whole community sharing idea but I am fine with that with my projects. 3D view is really nice of course.

I really like the idea of how you share components / footprints. It is a bit risky as who knows how careful someone created one but for doing stuff as a hobby it gets things going faster than having to do my own footprints all the time.

The keyboard shortcuts have quite a bit of a learning curve as I have to read the documentation and the UI doesn't help point out what the different shortcuts are. But once you know them they work fine.