Correct Schematic Symbol for Batteries

[cidcorp]

Ok, I suspect someone will love this question.  I've been under the understanding since I got started in electronics (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) the Battery symbol like below represents a
2 'cell' battery - like 2 AA batteries or 2 AAA batteries:



Now the interesting thing is how you define the word 'cell' - I've always thought that cell is the battery as a cell, not the internal cells.  For example a 9V battery being a single cell, even though they typically contain 6 cells within them:



My question is actually really simple.  Is it correct to refer to a 9V (internally multi cell) battery using a single cell battery symbol. I realize this is not a critical question and the world will not stop spinning if I've been doing it wrong all these years, but a friend and I have been arguing about this for over a week lol.

Can someone tell me if I've been incorrect all these years, and out $5. 

Chris

[alanb]

Not sure about the symbol but I was allways told that an AA or AAA should never be called a battery, it is a cell. 9V batteries are a collection of cells and can therfore correctly be called batteries.

[metrologist]

Like most things, it depends on your application. The symbol you show can be used to represent a battery of any number of cells, although it is proper to represent a single cell as such. So, two choices, a single cell or battery. I would say it is incorrect to use a single cell symbol to represent a 9V battery.

[alsetalokin4017]

I think common usage trumps absolute correctness here. Try going to the drugstore and asking for some AAA cells.... you'll probably get blank stares until you say "oh, I mean AAA batteries".

But then, we call those little disc-like things "Button Cells" ... but sometimes "hearing aid (or watch) batteries"..... 

As far as the symbol goes, how many lines do you feel like drawing? As long as you have the same number of long and short lines and specify the voltage, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

[rstofer]

You'd be drawing a lot of lines for a B battery.  We don't use them much anymore (ever?) but they supplied plate voltage for vacuum tube radios and such.

Here's an interesting discussion of A, B & C Batteries as opposed to cells:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(vacuum_tube)

You need to go back a good long while to have actually gone to the store and bought a B battery for a portable radio.

[retrolefty]

I kind of agree with the Wikipedia explanation of cell Vs battery usage.

Historically the term "battery" specifically referred to a device composed of multiple cells, however the usage has evolved to additionally include devices composed of a single cell.[3]

[Cerebus]

You'd be drawing a lot of lines for a B battery.  We don't use them much anymore (ever?) but they supplied plate voltage for vacuum tube radios and such.

Here's an interesting discussion of A, B & C Batteries as opposed to cells:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(vacuum_tube)

You need to go back a good long while to have actually gone to the store and bought a B battery for a portable radio.

The convention for these was to draw the top cell and the bottom cell and connect them with a dashed line to imply the other cells.

[TimFox]

The word "battery" is used for other multiple systems, such as artillery and hens.
It never hurts to use careful terminology, i.e. a "battery of cells" or a "cell", since you might want to check one cell out of a battery.
In language, once we start to be sloppy with terms that had different meanings, it becomes impossible to be specific.
Otherwise, inventing a totally new word (such as "transistor") is perfectly reasonable--just don't pervert the meanings of existing words.
("Inflammable" does not mean "non-flammable":  Note the Spanish and French translations on fire safety cabinets under the neologistic "flammable" in the English main title.)

[Zbig]

Not sure about the symbol but I was allways told that an AA or AAA should never be called a battery, it is a cell. 9V batteries are a collection of cells and can therfore correctly be called batteries.

I kind of agree with the Wikipedia explanation of cell Vs battery usage.

Historically the term "battery" specifically referred to a device composed of multiple cells, however the usage has evolved to additionally include devices composed of a single cell.[3]

Easy: this is a cell:


and this is a battery:




I (foolishly) used to try to force everyone to use the super-correct way of only calling "a battery" the pack of two or more cells. Luckily I finally gave up and as my example proves, the natural evolution of the language was right Regular users (99,9%) don't need to know the difference and those who need to know the difference already do, no matter how you call the thing. I just imagined my past self trying to convince someone that their camera runs on a single battery comprising of four AA cells and face-palmed in my mind

[Red Squirrel]

I guess as long as you're consistent throughout.  You could use single lines for 1 cell and 2 sets for any number of cells (instead of one per cell which would get a little out of hand for something like a 48v system).  Then you specify voltage. 

Interestingly in telco world we tend to refer to "the batteries" but really each "battery" is 1 cell and there are 24 of them per string (multiple strings for redundancy/extra capacity).  These cells are huge, like 5000 amp hour.   Technically each string is a battery.

[cidcorp]

I think these answers give me a way to argue both sides of our argument.  So I'm going with a tie, I'm cheap and want to keep my $5.  I'll be more careful when using terms like
'battery' & 'cell' around engineers, and use 'battery' pretty much exclusively around the 'regular' folk... 

@rstofer : a 'B' battery... nope no need for 63 Volts in the stuff I do, and I really never played much with Tubes.

I see what you mean about drawing the lines tho... http://www.techlib.com/electronics/b-battery.htm   ...ouch 

[tautech]

It doesn't matter which symbol you use, single or multiple cells, what matters is you label it with a voltage and have it the correct way around as you have. 

Altium for example in Miscellaneous devices list only a battery that's a 2 cell unit with a 2 pin header footprint and bugger building another component for something that simple, I just use it and get on with life.
Change the footprint sure but the battery symbol....nah.

[ez24]

I think these answers give me a way to argue both sides of our argument.  So I'm going with a tie, I'm cheap and want to keep my $5.  I'll be more careful when using terms like
'battery' & 'cell' around engineers, and use 'battery' pretty much exclusively around the 'regular' folk... 

@rstofer : a 'B' battery... nope no need for 63 Volts in the stuff I do, and I really never played much with Tubes.

I see what you mean about drawing the lines tho... http://www.techlib.com/electronics/b-battery.htm   ...ouch 

You could do this with a "vote" and base the bet on the results,  like the one with the most votes at midnight on the 30th.

I believe this is the best way to get an answer on this forum 

[CatalinaWOW]

There was some sense in directly showing the number of cells in the symbol when there were only a few common battery chemistries and they all gave between 1.4 and 2.2 volts.  And when most circuits didn't care +/- 30-40% what voltage was available. 

Today when many more battery chemistries are floating around with a much broader range of cell voltages, and when it is common to care much more about the applied voltage it makes much less sense.  I totally agree with the comment to use a convenient symbol and then carefully label the actual voltage.  (And anything else important).

[EPTech]

Hi there,

I  have seen cases where they use the standard 2-cell symbol with a dotted line in the middle.
State the voltage, the chemistry and eventually the number of cells, that is more than enough information.

[cidcorp]

Hi there,

I  have seen cases where they use the standard 2-cell symbol with a dotted line in the middle.
State the voltage, the chemistry and eventually the number of cells, that is more than enough information.

yep seen that symbol alot  as well - especially when related to 9V batteries.



Oh and thanks to all who commented / gave their $0.02 !  Although a VOTE could solve the dispute.

[rrinker]

 That last symbol there is what I always remember learning as representing a battery. You don't indicate every single cell, indeed as mentioned for something high voltage like a B battery that would be a LOT of space on the schematic. Instead you do like that symbol, indicate the ends, and have the ellipsis in the middle to indicate there are many more cells making up this particular battery. But I too am an old fart and first encountered schematics in the times before computers were common in the home. From sources such as the Radio Shack x-in1 kits and the old appliance repair books my Dad had, and the How and Why Wonder Book series.