Cross Roads

[PsychoMaster]

Hi
I have a big choice to make do I buy a beat up old oscilloscope off Ebay or The Art Of Electronics .Both mean going without much food and electricity for two weeks.Not easy is it?

[JackP]

Well that scope will need a lot of electricity, so take the book. Seriously, take the running water and power, though.

[Simon]

Get the scope, you can get the information online

[Vgkid]

Does the scope work correctly and have a manual(either print/online), if NOT DO NOT BUY.

[EEVblog]

Get the scope, you can get the information online

+1

[Electro Fan]

Budget Priority Recommendation

1. Food
2. Electricity
3. Scope (assuming it's in decent enough condition)
4. Free information on Internet (vs. $ for book)

[smjcuk]

Been there. Food + online study. Brain doesnt work without food. When you have the money, get the scope, not before.

[PsychoMaster]

Hi
Not easy for me this one.Stuff on the internet gets disjointed and all over the place and I don't have a laser printer yet for proper study.I would like more info on the book like what level of guy it,s aimed at and the stuff it covers. I am fairly sharpe but not much on notation and advanced mathmatics.Beautiful Code is one of my treasured books and I would also like to build beautiful circuits.A scope I expect to be a bit tatty but repairing stuff  is my thing and it gets you things cheaper. How can folk treat these beautiful devices like trash? Some of the scopes on Ebay look like they have been in a river and they discribe them as excellent.Are they demented would they accept a new one that looked like that?

[Simon]

Hi
Not easy for me this one.Stuff on the internet gets disjointed and all over the place

Just like the art of electronics

[smjcuk]

Hi
Not easy for me this one.Stuff on the internet gets disjointed and all over the place and I don't have a laser printer yet for proper study.I would like more info on the book like what level of guy it,s aimed at and the stuff it covers. I am fairly sharpe but not much on notation and advanced mathmatics.Beautiful Code is one of my treasured books and I would also like to build beautiful circuits.A scope I expect to be a bit tatty but repairing stuff  is my thing and it gets you things cheaper. How can folk treat these beautiful devices like trash? Some of the scopes on Ebay look like they have been in a river and they discribe them as excellent.Are they demented would they accept a new one that looked like that?

My old Telequipment D83 looks like it has been in a river. In fact the ebay auction had "found in a barn" in the title. It's completely normal. If it's a dual trace and there's two traces and the triggering works it's probably ok enough to go and grab it. If you're daring, most older ones are pretty easy to fix if they're not completely trashed. Don't get them shipped - just about every postal service and courier can destroy the things. All of my equipment is scabby and old. My new scope I'm picking up this afternoon is circa 1966.

Maths isn't too heavy. If you can do basic algebra and arithmetic you'll be fine. if you can't, hit http://www.khanacademy.org/ and go through the free lessons on there - they're all good.

As for reading material, you need something comprehensive and well written. That is NOT TAoE which serves better as a flick through reference. Couple of resources that are free:

http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/

There are also illegitimate sources of official books but I will not discuss that further! But you get the idea.

if you want a good book, I tend to recommend the "Complete Electronics Self Teaching Guide With Projects" by Boysen, Kybett. However make sure you include the errata when you're reading it as there are a few confusing errors in it.

Noticed you're in the UK too. Have a look on gumtree.com for scopes and things - they come up pretty regularly for a good price. Got a Fluke 77 on there for £20 as well. Had to drive to some place in the sticks near Reading it get it though.

[German_EE]

I would go for the book, hours of entertainment and should last a lifetime.

[Simon]

I would go for the book, hours of entertainment and should last a lifetime.

A book that starts to talk about inductors and then thinks it can can clarify things by talking about their application in a switch-mode supply instead furthering the subject properly is not for a beginner, it will just be confusing and infuriating.

[PsychoMaster]

Hi
I got the winning bid on a Tek 465 and the guy was late replying and when he did he is 70 miles away from where advertised.I cannot pick it up and the post cost is unreal and I expect bad for it so I am going to see if I can get my money back.How can someone like this have 100% good feedback?

[skyjumper]

Hi
I got the winning bid on a Tek 465 and the guy was late replying and when he did he is 70 miles away from where advertised.I cannot pick it up and the post cost is unreal and I expect bad for it so I am going to see if I can get my money back.How can someone like this have 100% good feedback?

Because whenever there is a problem the seller makes the resolution contingent upon  the buyer not leaving bad feedback. The seller will do anything to maintain 100% positive feedback so if you email his and explain the situation he will probably be happy to undo the sale.

This is why even a small number of negative feedback reports is cause for concern.

[Simon]

Hi
I got the winning bid on a Tek 465 and the guy was late replying and when he did he is 70 miles away from where advertised.I cannot pick it up and the post cost is unreal and I expect bad for it so I am going to see if I can get my money back.How can someone like this have 100% good feedback?

Because whenever there is a problem the seller makes the resolution contingent upon  the buyer not leaving bad feedback. The seller will do anything to maintain 100% positive feedback so if you email his and explain the situation he will probably be happy to undo the sale.

This is why even a small number of negative feedback reports is cause for concern.

Yes and no. There is no legal obligation or obligation within the eBay rules to leave positive feedback in exchange for a resolution. I hope I'm not the only person who has agreed not to leave negative feedback in order to get the problem sorted out and then left it anyway. If somebody is not playing fair you have every right to leave negative feedback. Of course people make genuine mistakes and it is right to give them the opportunity to fix things. I usually do my best to solve things for customers very quickly and usually my customers appreciate that sometimes mistakes can be made. But then I don't mislead people. If this seller misled you by making out he was not in the location he was advertising when the sale hinged on you being able to pick up the item then he should get negative feedback. Often people try hard work hard and get good feedback and then decide they can start relaxing and not making so much of an effort, that's when it's time for negative feed back. You can also leave neutral feedback on eBay.

[skyjumper]

Hi
I got the winning bid on a Tek 465 and the guy was late replying and when he did he is 70 miles away from where advertised.I cannot pick it up and the post cost is unreal and I expect bad for it so I am going to see if I can get my money back.How can someone like this have 100% good feedback?

Because whenever there is a problem the seller makes the resolution contingent upon  the buyer not leaving bad feedback. The seller will do anything to maintain 100% positive feedback so if you email his and explain the situation he will probably be happy to undo the sale.

This is why even a small number of negative feedback reports is cause for concern.

Yes and no. There is no legal obligation or obligation within the eBay rules to leave positive feedback in exchange for a resolution. I hope I'm not the only person who has agreed not to leave negative feedback in order to get the problem sorted out and then left it anyway. If somebody is not playing fair you have every right to leave negative feedback. Of course people make genuine mistakes and it is right to give them the opportunity to fix things. I usually do my best to solve things for customers very quickly and usually my customers appreciate that sometimes mistakes can be made. But then I don't mislead people. If this seller misled you by making out he was not in the location he was advertising when the sale hinged on you being able to pick up the item then he should get negative feedback. Often people try hard work hard and get good feedback and then decide they can start relaxing and not making so much of an effort, that's when it's time for negative feed back. You can also leave neutral feedback on eBay.

Well fair enough, but most people don't know this and when the seller offers to make things right, and asks if the buyer would be willing to not leave negative feedback, buyers take the easy path and agree. Its true there is no requirement to do so.

I leave negative feedback when it is deserved, which is not all that often.

[PsychoMaster]

Hi
I am not interested in getting nasty as it solves nothing.Yes at the time I was pissed.I will give it a while because maybe there is a genuine reason for the problems the guys having .Stuff happens beyond our control so on reflection I,ll keep in mind that most folk are descent.A bout a weeks worth of faith should be enough.
I reckon a little comunication should sort it out.
  Still looking forward to my first scope.