crying Newbie

[uc]

Dear all,
I have had a bad experience.
Today It is some kind of “damage control”
2 days ago a water pipe burst in my house and of course spray water ower my new developed electronic lab (note my amateur lab).
I awaited 2 days before power up my gear.
My old FLUKE  79iii was not working correct. It was flicking around in the different UIR modes.
My new purchase HAKKO FX-888D was making some disturbing noise that remind me kind of sparks noise. I think it is busted!
My new RIGOL DS1054X seemed to work.
My new SIGLENT SDM3065X seemed to work also.
My biggest concern is the expensive RIGOL and SIGLENT if there are OK or not.
During their boot sequinse they are not making any error code!
So my big Q should I be nervous?
Please advise

[capt bullshot]

Open up the stuff and dry them carefully. Remove batteries immediately if water gets inside electronic stuff.
As long as there's no power applied, water doesn't cause much damage to the electronics.
Powering on while there is still moisture inside can easily ruin the equipment.

[Gyro]

Two days isn't nearly enough time for water that has been sprayed over (and into) equipment to evaporate of its own accord.

You shouldn't have powered up anything without checking for water ingress first! I suggest you don't power anything else up before you have taken the covers off and checking for signs of water.

Even if something apparently powers up ok, tap water on device pins etc. will cause electrolysis and corrosion. I suggest you check things that you already powered up too.

You should also remove batteries from portable equipment that gets wet immediately!

[TheNewLab]

excellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix  about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.

Key, is drying out, and removing any contaminants, "yucky" stuff from the water. If yucky stuff just use some board cleaner or wash...or 99% alcohol

Try putting next to a heater  or central heating outlet. Around 100ºF to 150ºF (tek uses 200ºF) with plastics that will help dry out..

[ogden]

excellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix  about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

[edit] If Tektronix wash PCB's in tap water - I will never ever buy any piece of equipment from them

[Berni]

You should NOT power up things that have been in water.

Its not the water that kills electronics, it just causes nasty effects to electronics when power is applied. In a mild case the electrolysis between pins on boards could cause corrosion that eats away a trace, pad or pin. In a bad case the water becomes conductive enough to let currents flow where they should not and this can result in 230V mains input finding its way into a 5V supply rail and blowing up every chip connected to it.

The right step is to as quickly as possible remove power and batteries(Includes internal backup batteries), then in the near future open up the equipment and dry it out really really well. If the water brought in some dirt along with it then everything must also be cleaned first. Best is to put the PCBs into a ultrasonic cleaner, but you could just use distilled water and a toothbrush to do it, maybe add a little bit of dish soap but then rinse it off well with more clean distilled water. Dry the boards in an oven for a while to get the water out, then wash with alcohol to get the last remaining parts of water out, dry it with towels and then in the oven for some more to be sure.

Even if it powers on and works right now does not grantee it will still work 1 week later when the corrosion gets to it.

By doing this you could even save equipment that was submerged in water for days (Provided there are is electromechanical stuff in there to gum up with water and dirt).

I understand that you are a bit hesitant to open up some of the expensive equipment, but you already voided your warranty by dunking it in water. The stuff should be easy to take apart and reassemble for any competent electronics engineer, just keep track of all the screws and you can't mess it up. Laptops and tablets these days are MUCH harder to take apart than test equipment and yet even non engineers sometimes have a go at fixing them. As such an invested electronic hobbyist you have to get comfortable with taking apart your equipment since you will keep your gear for many years, far out of warranty and it will likely break at some point. Getting it repaired will cost a pretty penny, due to its age it might be a bit obsolete compared to brand new equipment at the time so it might not even make sense to repair, so you have to have fix it yourself. Also you can sometimes score broken old equipment really cheap and fix it yourself to get a very capable piece of gear without breaking the bank.

EDIT: Fixing gear yourself also teaches you a lot about how it works and shows you some design tricks that you can use elsewhere in your own projects.

[001]

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home

[ogden]

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home

Yes I know who he is or to be exact - was. Are you sure his chemistry was as good as his electronics?

Calgonit contains Sodium citrate and Carbonic acid. It's pH is 10. If he would wrote in the book that jumping off the cliff is good for your PCB's - you would do that? Sometimes you shall use your head or just check what electronics industry is actually doing.

[Mr. Scram]

You may get lucky, but corrosion is cruel and make take a while to finally appear. If you're insured, I'd consider it all junk and write it off. Wet precision instruments are just wet instruments.

[Zero999]

Dear all,
I have had a bad experience.
Today It is some kind of “damage control”
2 days ago a water pipe burst in my house and of course spray water ower my new developed electronic lab (note my amateur lab).
I awaited 2 days before power up my gear.
My old FLUKE  79iii was not working correct. It was flicking around in the different UIR modes.
My new purchase HAKKO FX-888D was making some disturbing noise that remind me kind of sparks noise. I think it is busted!
My new RIGOL DS1054X seemed to work.
My new SIGLENT SDM3065X seemed to work also.
My biggest concern is the expensive RIGOL and SIGLENT if there are OK or not.
During their boot sequinse they are not making any error code!
So my big Q should I be nervous?
Please advise

The first think you should consider, before anything else, is if any of it is covered by any insurance policies you have. Hopefully you can make a claim and get everything replaced, with only the excess to pay.

excellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix  about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

[edit] If Tektronix wash PCB's in tap water - I will never ever buy any piece of equipment from them

You're right, ideally deionised water should be used, but in reality plain tap water will work. Once it's dry the tiny amount of dissolved salts aren't a problem, because they need water to be conductive or corrosive.

[EDIT]
The salts in the water are no longer dissolved, once it's dry and just sit harmlessly on the surface of the PCB and components.
[/EDIT]


It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

[tggzzz]

It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down

ISTR there are videos of that process.

[tautech]

@uc
Sorry to hear of your catastrophe. 

The SDM3065X getting wet is of concern and I would contact your supplier for advice for internal cleaning. It's internal sensitivity is much greater than a scope so any internal contamination with affect accuracy and stability.

Without official guidance of how to clean the internals, a soft bush and IPA or distilled water to dislodge any deposited salts etc and then dry on a sunny window sill for a few days before reassembly.
Maybe any water ingress is very localized so there's only need to treat obviously water spotted areas.

Good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you.

 

[ogden]

You're right, ideally deionised water should be used, but in reality plain tap water will work. Once it's dry the tiny amount of dissolved salts aren't a problem, because they need water to be conductive or corrosive.

Once I was rinsing "sticky keys" PC keyboard in kitchen sink. LED drivers ans similar "dumb boards" w/o sensitive circuits most likely will survive such as well However... would you wash PCB's of your electrometer or >= 6 digit DVM same way?

[ogden]

It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down

ISTR there are videos of that process.

Again "small details" are omitted 

1) It was "Back in the 1960s and 1970"

2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“

Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments

[Berni]

It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down

ISTR there are videos of that process.

Now that's a neat article, had no idea it was standard practice to hose down CRT scopes like that.

My Agilent MSO6000 needs a bit of a clean on the knobs. Those rubberised knobs seam to be real dirt magnets, but that's easy to fix, just pull them off and throw them in a tub of water.

[dmills]

For cleaning knobs, pull them off, throw them in a sock, close with cable tie, chuck in with the laundry, much less messing about then going at them with a toothbrush. 

A flooded lab is almost always an insurance claim in the first instance.

Regards, Dan.

[tggzzz]

It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down

ISTR there are videos of that process.

Again "small details" are omitted 

The "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.

1) It was "Back in the 1960s and 1970"

2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“

Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments

Er no. Did you read the link; it contains "Chuck Phillips is pictured at right washing a 7000." The 7000 series is transistorised.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't recommend this procedure on a modern scope

[PA0PBZ]

For the too-lazy-to-click-the-link people:

[ogden]

The "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.

RTFmypost: I did read the article. Others may not. That's why I made it clear for those who plan to give their electronics "good wash". Don't forget that this is forum, not various RTFLink bookmark collection.

For the too-lazy-to-click-the-link people:

Exactly what I am talking about. People are lazy and most of them will not read linked article.

[tggzzz]

The "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.

RTFmypost: I did read the article.

Since you chose to omit the inconvenient-to-you context, I'll point out you "missed"

• the picture of the transistorised 7000 series scope being washed
• the text stating "A photo of Charles (Chuck) cheerfully washing a Tek 7000 scope back in 1972 has survived"

That doesn't fit with your statement "Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments" (your emphasis).

[schmitt trigger]

I did open the link, and the following paragraph made me chuckle:

"1960s oscilloscope being cleaned in the shower and dried in a kitchen oven with the missus out on a shopping excursion." Italics mine.

It made me chuckle because that is what I have done some electronics mischief in the past. 

But back to the OP's problem:
-Indeed, an insurance claim would be the best solution.
-If no insurance claim is feasible, the following approach has worked for me a couple of times:
1) Drench the soaked instrument in deionized water. Let it settle for a while.
2) Drench the instrument in alcohol. Isopropil is fine, but I like denatured 96% Ethyl better, I know it has great water affinity.
3) Let it dry 24 hours.

[ogden]

Since you chose to omit the inconvenient-to-you context, I'll point out you "missed"

• the picture of the transistorised 7000 series scope being washed
• the text stating "A photo of Charles (Chuck) cheerfully washing a Tek 7000 scope back in 1972 has survived"

That doesn't fit with your statement "Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments" (your emphasis).

What statement? - It is citation from that article! Did you even read it? 

Tek 7000 scope indeed have vacuum tube inside: CRT. RTFWikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube

I am curious - what you want to prove? That you can wash modern electronics using pressure washer just because it worked in year 1972 and tek 7000 scope survived?

BTW it's not even funny anymore

If you really did not get it, correction in red:

2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“

Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments of sentence (citation) above

[Brumby]

I have used ordinary tap water for bulk cleaning of an old TV chassis heavily contaminated with dust and dirt.  The trick is to not let that water evaporate on its own, but to rinse it off with something like isopropyl alcohol.

In my experience, there are 3 main considerations:
1. Removing contaminants
2. Allowing to dry - thoroughly. (I put my TV aside and forgot about it for 3-4 weeks).  As stated above, 2 days for enclosed equipment is way too short.
3. Checking for effects on switch mechanisms, grease and other susceptible mechanical parts.

I remember the Serviceman column in EA once describing the repair of an electronic organ where some rodents had found their way inside via the foot pedal opening and, among other things, urinating over some PCBs.  The first stage of cleaning was to remove the affected boards and hose them down.  His argument: that the water would be far less damaging than the urine.  I forget if there was a rinse of something like isopropyl alcohol - but I do remember there was a long period given for drying ... and that was on PCBs removed from the unit.


Even if you do aim to get everything dried out - how much time will it take you?  Even if successful, you may still be faced with calibration issues and/or latent problems that may lie dormant and come back to bite you in the arse somewhere down the track.

[Cerebus]

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home

Yes I know who he is or to be exact - was. Are you sure his chemistry was as good as his electronics?

Calgonit contains Sodium citrate and Carbonic acid. It's pH is 10. If he would wrote in the book that jumping off the cliff is good for your PCB's - you would do that? Sometimes you shall use your head or just check what electronics industry is actually doing.

Hmm. Who to believe, a dead jolly old man, quick to help, with a worldwide reputation in electronics, called on to consult by all sorts of people or a grumpy old man with a reputation for being acerbic and ungrammatical on electronics fora? Hmmm, so difficult to decide.

Na, not really. I'd side with old Bob. Especially as he used to take stuff from his dishwasher and actually measure it in rigs where he was looking to detect femtoamp level leakage currents. Like here. Kind of suggests it works, doesn't it?

[mzzj]

They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.

Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home

You get your authors mixed up. Pease is has nothing to do with AOE.
Troubleshooting analog circuits is one of his books:
https://www.amazon.com/Troubleshooting-Analog-Circuits-Design-Engineers/dp/0750694998

Also maybe a not best reference what is considered  safe practices today as he died on a car crash driving his 1969 VW beetle, allegedly without safety belts. 

Actually I have washed dozens of "modern" boards with hot tap water and dishwasher soap.
(used pressurized air to dry, give a good rinse with IPA followed by another air blast and the board was ready for operation in 15 minutes, usually no need for oven dry..)