Author Topic: DC dummy load circuit calibration  (Read 16293 times)

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DC dummy load circuit calibration
« on: May 11, 2018, 09:02:44 pm »
Dear friends,

I want to create a dummy load which can handle 30v\5A which is going to be based on IRILZ44N mosfet (or several ones in parallel on the same heatsink) with LM358 op-amp and 10-turn pot. I don't have models for them thus I used similar parts. If I let the input voltage for opamps be 5v, it won't let me get the 5A maybe due to the opamps are not rail to rail. I hoped I could achieve this project with only a USB 5v input supply or something.

Circuit simulation in LTspice and it works perfectly, but the only thing left for me is to make the calibration potentiometer. ((attached below))

To make it easier for you, I have 2 potentiometers (modeled as a resistor divider because I don't know how to model a pot in ltspice) in the schematic: one for increasing op-amp gain and the other for decreasing it... because the 1 ohm power resistor might be 1.05 or 0.95 for example.

My goal of this thread is to make it only one potentiometer to do the job of both situations. I have seen many schematics like this one: http://www.openhardwarehub.com/projects/73-Simple-DC-Dummy-Load

but when I try the same circuit (with increasing op-amp gain pot) in ltspice it will solve the problem when the resistor is less than 1 ohm and it cannot do the opposite since it is in non-inverting amplifier configuration. I don't know if it works for them or not, but I need it to work in LTspice to guarantee it works on final circuit which I am gonna make the PCB for it.

calibration method is easy as you expect:
1- turn the 10-turn pot to 0 then turn on the dummy load.
2- adjust the pot to output exactly 1v then turn off the dummy load.
3- connect a power supply with say 5v and put the multimeter in ammeter configuration in series with it... while connected to the dummy load.
4- turn on dummy load... now current could be off a little bit due to resistor tolerence.
5- adjust the calibration potentiometer to make the multimeter display exactly 1A.


You can try adjusting the resistor around the 1R value and then play with positive and negative pots to get the idea.



Looking forward to your replies!

best regards,

Online Ian.M

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 10:56:48 am »
Just tagging in on this topic so I get notified when you update.
I'll need a bit of thinking time before I give a proper reply to your questions above.

Lets get started by finding datasheets for the parts:
IRILZ44N isn't easily found on Google apart from this topic, but there's a datasheet here: https://www.hifituning24.de/downloads/irliz44n.pdf

LM358 is trivial to find - its so popular Sparkfun has the datasheet - https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/LM358.pdf

It looks like the MOSFET can pass 70A (pulsed) with 5V gate drive.  However with only 3V drive you'll be lucky to get 20A (datasheet Fig. 3), and below that it rapidly drops off to under 2A at 2V, also becoming highly temperature dependant.

Its difficult to find a spec for the LM358's output swing at V+=5V, however the specs for V+=30V indicate it will at best reach 2V under the rail with 3V under being typical, and the internal schematic on page 20 of the datasheet shows a 100uA current source feeding the base of a Darlington pair (Q5, Q6) which is consistent with that, so with a 5V supply you'll be lucky to get over 2.5V out and will never get more than 3V out.   Conclusion: to get more current you need a better OPAMP - maybe a low voltage one with rail-to-rail inputs *AND* output.

The openhardwarehub project you linked above seems a bit dubious - it vastly over-complicates the MOSFET current sink with two OPAMPs in the control loop, then compounds the stupidity by paralleling the MOSFETs (apart from their individual 100R anti-parasitic oscillation gate resistors) which is likely to result in thermal instability and current hogging.

All that is needed is a simple single OPAMP feedback loop - control voltage to +in, and feedback from top of Rs to -in.   The current then becomes Vctrl/Rs.   This can easily be calibrated by using Rs under 1 ohm and feeding in Vctrl via a potential divider so that it can be reduced to get a calibration of 1A per volt.   0.1R for Rs would be a good choice, with a nominal 10:1  potential divider to keep the voltage drop across Rs low.   Its desirable to avoid sudden current increases if the wiper of the calibration preset makes poor contact, so the preset should be wired with its wiper tied to one track end as a variable resistor not as a potentiometer, and it should be in series with the upper limb of the divider.   20K fixed + a 10K preset, with a lower arm of 2K7 gives you about +/-18% adjustment range either side of 10:1 so is a good place to start.

Trying to make the circuit work accurately right down to 0V in, 0A sunk with a single supply requires a *VERY* good rail to rail OPAMP.   If you can offset the ground by even a single diode drop so the OPAMP has a -0.6V negative rail, it will let you use a lower spec OPAMP.   If you use your LM358, a 9V supply split to give -1V and +8V rails will guarantee it will be capable of at least 0V to 5V gate drive swing.

If you are using multiple MOSFETs, each should have its own drive OPAMP and Rs to get stable even current sharing.   The potential divider for Vctrl to in+ can be shared by all the OPAMPs.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 11:07:08 am by Ian.M »
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 11:37:05 am »
This is the resistor that I have ordered: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-RX24-1R-1-Ohm-50W-Aluminum-High-Power-Resistor-Metal-Shell-Case-Heatsink-Resistance-Resistor/32724995615.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.MERq4G

it is 1 ohm not 0.1 so I cannot use 0.1, cannot wait another month. So I've got to think about doing it with 1R. I forgot to mention that the panel meter current shunt will be before the Rs so it will add a little bit to it. Panel meter itself will need calibration too.

I tried voltage divider on the positive input of the opamp, but as I said, I need a method to work for 1R resistor.

I can add a diode to make -0.6v, it is easy.

I can make an op-amp for each mosfet but I cannot give them shunt resistor for each one. I guess this is gonna be fine since the gate voltage of each one is gonna be exactly what it needs regardless of others.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 12:45:27 pm »
The problem with Rs of 1 ohm is the voltage drop across it  when passing 5A will be 5V.   You'll need at least 0.5V Vds drop across the MOSFET, which will limit the minimum working voltage for the load to 5.5V.   Also, you need enough gate drive to be able to reach 5A.  3V Vgs will probably do it unless you are unlucky and the MOSFET has a higher than expected Vgs threshold voltage.   Therefore the OPAMP output must be able to reach +8V with respect to the load circuit 0V, which means for a LM358, you'll need a 12V control circuit supply, and its impossible to design a 5V supply version, even with a perfect rail-to-rail input & output OPAMP.

Unfortunately you do need separate Rs resistors for each MOSFET to avoid current hogging.  Looking at Fig. 3 of the MOSFET datasheet, below about 20A Id, Id will *INCREASE* with temperature due to gate threshold voltage shift.  This means that if one MOSFET draws slightly more current, it will get hotter and draw even more current until it is drawing the majority of the current the load is set for, or 20A, or it fails due to excessive dissipation, whichever comes first.   You might get away with adding extra 0.1R resistors in series with each individual source pin, but it would be better to have completely separate source resistors.  Therefore I suggest you don't try to parallel MOSFETs until you have ordered a few 0.1R resistors.   Due to the lower resistance, you don't need such expensive power resistors - 3W ceramic will be fine for a max current of 5A per MOSFET.

Accepting these disadvantages, the circuit below should work.   MOSFET and OPAMP substitutions are the same as the sim you posted.

The R2:R3 divider 'taps down' the voltage across Rs so that you can use a similar divider feeding the OPAMP +in to calibrate it.   The Vbe multiplier Q1, R1, R7 acts as a crude shunt regulator to allow you to set the negative rail anywhere between -0.7V and -2.1V, and R8 feeds it >40mA so it doesn't collapse when the OPAMP tries to slew the gate rapidly negative.  You could probably increase R8 if you need to save power - worst case with a 1K gate resistor the OPAMP can draw about 10mA so 680R would leave some safety margin.

I wouldn't go below 1K on the gate resistor - it will limit the fault current into the OPAMP otput if the MOSFET fails.   Similarly the 1K R2 protects the OPAMP -in.   

Refinements for a practical circuit:  Add decoupling from both OPAMP rails to Gnd, a Schottky diode from V- to GND, cathode to Gnd so V- can never be dragged more than 0.3V positive, and a 10K resistor from the OPAMP output to Gnd to hold the MOSFET off if the control circuit isn't powered.  A 10A fast fuse in series with the MOSFET drain would be a good idea - it wont save the MOSFET, but should prevent anything too nasty happening to the rest of the circuit.

N.B. the 12V control circuit PSU *MUST* have a fully floating output.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 01:17:39 pm by Ian.M »
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 01:34:16 pm »
My trial is in attachments. TBH, I did it correctly before you post your circuit (which is better overall than mine) but with 12v supply as you mentioned. My original goal was to run this thing from 5v USB (not necessarily from labtop but from wall adapter 5v), now I need to find a way to make 5v to 12v amplification from gelly bean parts. I needed this thing to be as simple as possible, like Dave's one. However, Dave's one is not precise due to no calibration.

I didn't understand what is the floating part of the 12v supply? If I connected 12v wall adapter or say 5v wall adapter + boost converter to it... would it be floating?

I know floating means no ground connection... so what does that leave us with?

Do you know any straight forward way to make this 5v usb to 12v supply?


BTW: I have ordered these boost converters: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lot-MT3608-DC-DC-Adjustable-Boost-Module-2A-Boost-Step-Up-Module-with-MICRO-USB/32834245300.html

I guess they will work if we connect 5v to them then adjusted the pot.


After all this, if we make it 0.1R power resistor... will we get away with just 5v supply from wall adapter?

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 02:12:04 pm »
The 12V supply output must be floating (i.e. no connection from its 0V to mains supply ground) *BEFORE* you connect it to your circuit, (obviously it wont be floating while its connected).  If it isn't floating, the bias circuit for the V- supply to the OPAMP will be shorted out, and you'll have problems getting the gate voltage low enough to control the MOSFET current right down to 0A.

If you redesign with 0.1R Rs resistors and a true rail-to-rail input & output OPAMP, you'll have no problems running the control circuit from a 5V USB PSU.   I'd be *VERY* cautious about actually running it from a PC USB port as the PC will introduce mains ground on the USB 0V rail, and if there are any mistakes in your load circuit wiring, you risk putting tens of Amps through the USB 0V, which will almost certainly burn out your PC motherboard.



That boost converter module advertisement is almost entirely bogus - there is no sign of a microUSB connector, or a LM2577 and it wont do 2A.  However assuming it is actually MT3608 based with a genuine IC, and they haven't skinped on the inductor, it should have no problems doing a 5V to 12V (or even 15V) boost with up to 200mA load current.   If you wire a floating 5V USB PSU between load Gnd and OPAMP V- to supply the OPAMP with a -5V negative rail and use the boost module set for +15V output (with respect to V-) to supply the OPAMP V+ at +10V it should work nicely with your existing OPAMP and load resistor.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 02:14:45 pm by Ian.M »
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 02:44:38 pm »
The 12V supply output must be floating (i.e. no connection from its 0V to mains supply ground) *BEFORE* you connect it to your circuit, (obviously it wont be floating while its connected).  If it isn't floating, the bias circuit for the V- supply to the OPAMP will be shorted out, and you'll have problems getting the gate voltage low enough to control the MOSFET current right down to 0A.

If you redesign with 0.1R Rs resistors and a true rail-to-rail input & output OPAMP, you'll have no problems running the control circuit from a 5V USB PSU.   I'd be *VERY* cautious about actually running it from a PC USB port as the PC will introduce mains ground on the USB 0V rail, and if there are any mistakes in your load circuit wiring, you risk putting tens of Amps through the USB 0V, which will almost certainly burn out your PC motherboard.



That boost converter module advertisement is almost entirely bogus - there is no sign of a microUSB connector, or a LM2577 and it wont do 2A.  However assuming it is actually MT3608 based with a genuine IC, and they haven't skinped on the inductor, it should have no problems doing a 5V to 12V (or even 15V) boost with up to 200mA load current.   If you wire a floating 5V USB PSU between load Gnd and OPAMP V- to supply the OPAMP with a -5V negative rail and use the boost module set for +15V output (with respect to V-) to supply the OPAMP V+ at +10V it should work nicely with your existing OPAMP and load resistor.


I saw this one which seems simple: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/derpy-load-is-this-dummy-load-design-any-good/
What do you think about it?

____

I tested the simpler version of just 5v usb input without any negative bias, and it works fine up to say 1.8A as it does not go to 2A (only 1.95A).

How about I do the simplest version first then try make a better one ((attached))? this one will have only the panel meter as an output so you only need to calibrate it against a multimeter, so no need to make 1v per 1a since no measurement are taking place.

Even our v3 seems to draw 21mA from the 12v supply. So I thought first to get 2x9v batteries in series to give 18v (could reach 12v after long operation dropout) but I remembered that 9v batteries have crappy capacity so what do you think? remember that this should be very simple design as much as possible.

One other method that I tried is doing +9v_gnd_-9v by using the two 9v batteries. Our v3 circuit worked, even simpler without any diode or 2n2222 config and the 1k||1k resistors. battery current shows 0.8mA which is kinda nice! I guess this would be good without the panel meter (draws about 15-20mA approx.)...

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 03:16:18 pm »
9V PP3 batteries are $EXPEN$IVE$ if you need more than a few mA for very long.  For a battery powered solution, I'd use an 8x AA battery holder for a 12V pack for the V+ rail and a separate single cell AA holder for the V- rail, which should be able to maintain 5A Id down to 1.2V per cell, for about 50% usage of the total battery capacity.  Use a low quiescent current 5V regulator to provide a stable voltage to your current set potentiometer.  If you want to be able to drain the batteries dry, use a boost module with its output set to 10V (with the input lower) to keep the V+ rail high enough as the batteries discharge.

However one major advantage of going for a 12V wallwart powered dummy load is it makes it very easy to use PC heatsinks and fans for the MOSFETs, which is a cheap way to get the full rated dissipation out of your MOSFETs.
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 03:24:45 pm »
what about the panel meter? it will eat the batteries quickly.

I think for now I will make a simple version of using the 5v USB wall adapter to make it go to around 1.5A. Then think about a better way to make a better one.

as for heatsink, I have this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-x-Black-Aluminum-Radiator-Heat-Sink-Heat-Sink-40-x-40-mm-x-11-mm/32811370283.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6cHUhp

it is 2 heatsinks not just one... I guess one will be enough for 1.5A 30v.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 07:13:29 pm »
1.5A 30V with your 1R sense resistor is 42.75W dissipation in the MOSFETs.  There isn't a snowflake's chance in hell that one of those heatsinks with passive air cooling could keep the MOSFETs cool enough.   Two of them, each with a fan *may* be good enough but you'd have to do some testing to confirm that.

I cant comment about the panel meter as you haven't described it other than saying it draws 15-20mA.
 
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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2018, 07:31:43 pm »
1.5A 30V with your 1R sense resistor is 42.75W dissipation in the MOSFETs.  There isn't a snowflake's chance in hell that one of those heatsinks with passive air cooling could keep the MOSFETs cool enough.   Two of them, each with a fan *may* be good enough but you'd have to do some testing to confirm that.

I cant comment about the panel meter as you haven't described it other than saying it draws 15-20mA.

This is the panel meter: https://www.banggood.com/0_28-Inch-Dual-Display-Red-Blue-LED-Panel-4_5-30V-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-1-100A-p-1093413.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__1&ID=513878&cur_warehouse=CN

Ok, then what heatsink is gonna be enough? I meant, what size? I want to order the PCBs with components from JLCPCB and they offer this store: https://lcsc.com/products/Heat-Sinks_441.html

I could search locally but I am not confident I will find what I want.

It is worth mentioning that I will put the project in this box: https://www.banggood.com/Plastic-Electrical-Junction-Box-Instrument-Chassis-DIY-Black-Case-125X80X32mm-p-1141712.html

So, I guess determining heatsink size is important because I need to know where to cut for it and mount it.

I searched for heatsinks in aliexpress and banggood, but no one tells you the heatsink temperature raise per watt. How can I know then?

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2018, 09:02:36 pm »
I attached the data for the mosfet, what I understand is this:

It's junction to case temp increases by 3.3 degrees for each watt dissipated -> say 50W in our case = 3.3x50 = 165 degrees.
However, junction to ambient is way too much which I don't understand how to calculate.

So in my understanding, we need to dissipate 165 degrees in the heatsink to make the mosfet work better since it has 0.3 derating factor. Does this mean that it's power capability is decreased by 0.3 Watts per degree? that means 0.3*165 =  45.9 -> what does it mean?

I will get 2 mosfets to make it better but I need to understand what to do in terms of temperature. I need to understand how stuff works... I hope you can help.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2018, 05:23:36 am »
I forgot that I bought this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Black-Extruded-Aluminum-Enclosures-PCB-Instrument-Electronic-Project-Box-Case-100x76x35mm/32813597400.html

What about connecting the two heatsinks to it (each mosfet on one heatsink)? Otherwise, my friend has promised to give me big heatsinks... in this case, will they be good with that plastic enclosure?

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 01:20:44 pm »
Although that Aliexpress aluminum project box would be very nice for a lower powered device, its a poor choice when you need to dissipate over 40 watts.  Because the only flat sides are the ends, it would be difficult to mount a large enough heatsink to it neatly.  You cant just bolt the heatsink to the top of the box and fit the MOSFETs to its interior, you'd actually have to cut an opening under the heatsink so the MOSFETs could bolt direct to it.  The 76x35mm end plate size constrains the heatsink size you could mount to the back, and the restricted interior volume would make it difficult to mount a fan cooled heatsink internally.

However if the same box with a smooth top or if a taller version with ends large enough to take a CPU heatsink were available they would be very suitable.

Lets take a closer look at your IRILZ44N MOSFET thermal data:

The same basic information is presented twice in differing formats.
The first (highlighted in Tan) is the power dissipation at 25° C and the derating factor.   That assumes a heatsink capable of  keeping the MOSFET mounting surface under a particular temperature limit.  For every degree the mounting surface is above 25° C by, subtract 0.3W from its 45W @ 25° C rating.   That's convenient for quick back of the envelope calculations. e.g. if we can keep the mounting surface under 55° C, it can dissipate 45-0.3*30 = 36W, but is a PITA if you actually have or need data for the heatsink.

The second, (hilighted in Yellow) is the design data needed for a more formal solution.  TJ_max is 175°C, and the thermal resistance junction to case is RθJC of 3.3°C/W. (Ignore RθJA of 66°C/W - its only applicable if you are *NOT* using a heatsink.)

Lets assume a maximum ambient temperature of 45°C (as you have Jordan set as your location), and that we want a 10°C safety margin on TJ_max.   That means we can tolerate a temperature rise of 120°C.  With an infinite perfect heatsink, perfectly bonded to the mounting surface, that gives us a dissipation limit of 120/3.3 = 36.4W which closely matches the result for 55°C from the first method (55°C = 45°C + 10°C margin), as expected.  At this point we already know a single MOSFET cant handle your proposed usage - to get 42.75W dissipation without exceeding TJ_max, you'd need to keep the mounting surface under 33.9°C, with no margin, which is impractical without active cooling - its cheaper to add more MOSFETs.   

If you can split the power evenly between N MOSFETs,  the calculation for the thermal resistance (to ambient) for N separate heatsinks becomes:

   RθSA = (TJ-TA)/(Ptot/N) - RθJC - RθCS

Plug in N=2 , take RθCS as 0.5°C/W (typical for a TO220 screwed down on heatsink compound to an anodized heatsink), other figures as before, and you get an max individual heatsink  RθA  of 1.8°C/W - which is enough to start searching for heatsinks on and distributor's site that has a parametric search.   If you want to put them all on the same heatsink, you need to divide the result for individual heatsinks by N, which would give 0.9°C/W.

However, without separate driver OPAMPs and separate source resistors Rs, the power will *NOT* share evenly.   Lets guess that  it may be out of balance so one MOSFET is taking twice as much power as another and see what that does to the calculations.  We only need to calculate for the one that's hogging the power.     120/(42.75*2/3) - 3.3 -0.5 = 0.41°C/W  :-\ :scared:  That's only a 56.7°C maximum heatsink temperature - which may be possible with a big enough heatsink shared between all the MOSFETs, calculating its temperature rise from its RθSA and the *total* dissipation.

Heatsinks with RθSA below 2°C/W tend to be somewhat pricey and, apart from mass-produced CPU heatsinks, anything below 1°C/W tends to be really expensive, and for anything at all below 0.5°C/W you'll cry when you see the price.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 01:26:43 pm by Ian.M »
 
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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 07:12:52 pm »
You mentioned that using multiple mosfets could help, I can use up to 4 mosfets. However, only one shunt resistor (1R). I can though use an opamp per mosfet with 100 ohm gate resistor. How about that?

a friend promised to get me a big heatsink so I will mount the mosfets and the resistor on it. I cannot use a fan since the project will be powered by 5v USB. I wonder why Dave's design seems way more easier despite the same spec (he has 1.3A and I have 1.5A while 1R is the same).

The problem is that I don't have the data for heat sinks (C\W). So one cannot determine if it is enough or not.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 07:32:42 pm »
As I said earlier, below about 20A your MOSFETS have a negative temperature coefficient for Id - it will increase as they get hotter while Vgs is held constant.   That means instability if paralleled, with the possibility of one heating up till it hogs the majority of the current, and if its dissipation is more than its derated rating at the current heatsink temperature, its TJ_max will be exceeded and it will fail.     There's no certain way round this without separate resistors in series with each MOSFET source.   It may appear to work at first, but as the heatsink warms up, it may at any time start thermal runaway, soon followed by MOSFET failure shorting the supply under test.  The odds of avoiding thermal runaway are improved if the MOSFETs are very closely matched for RDS_on and gate threshold voltage and you also derate them significantly e.g.  each to 50% of the single MOSFET rating.

You can use the resistor to test the heatsink.   You'll need a high current 5V supply capable of more than 5A.   Mount the resistor to the heatsink with a smear of heatsink compound, and apply 5V to it, with an ammeter in series and a voltmeter directly across the resistor.  The heatsink should be left in the same orientation as it will be used in in your project.   After a couple of hours, measure the heatsink temperature and the ambient temperature, and from the difference and the power input from the resistor, you can calculate its RθSA.
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2018, 07:58:52 pm »
Here are the heatsinks that I got from my friend, what do you think?

How about if I mount the mosfets close to each other to make heat the same?

I need a solution to make this work, I cannot imagine why Dave's design works perfectly and mine is not despite being the same.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2018, 09:20:24 pm »
Those are fairly small heatsinks out of a SMPSU.  I doubt they'll handle more than about 10W each without excessive temperature rise.   Test one with 25W from your 1R resistor run on a 5V supply and see for yourself.

Whether or not a particular set of MOSFETs will be thermally stable when directly paralleled is heavily dependent on their characteristics, how well matched they are and how hard you push them.  It helps if you start off with MOSFETs designed for linear operation - if there isn't a DC line on the MOSFET's S.O.A graph you'll probably get a nasty surprise if you push it past a small fraction of its rated power even without paralleling.

In EEVblog #102, Dave used a single MPT3055VL, which is rated for DC linear region operation.  Unfortunately your IRILZ44N doesn't have a DC S.O.A rating so you are gambling even with only one, before you even consider thermal runaway issues if you parallel them.

See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/electronic-load-mosfet-balancing/
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 09:22:51 pm by Ian.M »
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2018, 10:04:31 pm »
I only have the IRIL44Z for now, but I ordered IRL640A which should be here in a week or so.

What if I used 4 mosfets with each one at one of those heatsinks? We have around 30*1.5 = 45 watts. Shunt resistor will get 1.5*1.5*1 = 2.25 watts which doesn't need a heatsink (or maybe one of the small radiators mentioned previously).

So we are up to 42.75 -> assume 43 watts which means around 10 watts per heatsink, or if 2 heatsinks are used -> 20 watts per heatsink. I will use thermal paste to stick parts together to the heatsink and get the heatsink to be kinda flush to the case.

You mention pushing the mosfet beyond its rated power, but I don't think I am doing this. If I used 4 mosfets, with 1.5A maximum... then each one will get around 43/4 =~10 watts. Now, 3.3 *10 = 33 degrees above ambient -> 33+30 = ~ 60 degrees which is nothing especially with a heatsink.

How does Dave's mosfet handle 40 watts of power alone?

I need a simple solution to build this circuit, while the better version is for another day.


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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 10:37:00 pm »
At 10W per MOSFET, you may be OK.  However you'd be much safer if you had separate resistors for current sense for each MOSFET, each with its own OPAMP driving its gate.   3x 1R 1/4W resistors in parallel would give you a 0.33R resistor good for 0.75W, or 1.5A   16x 0.33R resistors in groups of four, four MOSFETs and four OPAMPs would let you run at up to 6A at low voltage, dropping to about 1.5A at 30V to keep the individual MOSFET dissipations low enough for reliability.

You may wish to consider using an Arduino for monitoring, control and data logging with sensors to monitor the heatsink temperatures, and also to read the load voltage and current so you can program it to shut off the load if its safe ratings are exceeded.   However, if you are going to connect it to a PC, I strongly recommend optoisolating the serial data lines between the ATmega CPU and the USB<=>serial chip to avoid any risk to your PC.
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2018, 10:39:13 pm »
Take a look at this one too:

This is its schematic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/frank26080115/DummyLoad/master/Hardware/dummyload.png

It uses IRFB7430PBF MOSFET which has the DC curve at SAO, like my IRL640A and unlike my IRLI44Z.

However, I don't understand the concept here. If the C per W is nearly the same for all these mosfets, how come the ones with DC curve at SOA can work perfectly but the ones that don't have it cannot? I mean even with sharing between 4 mosfets while the other one with DC curve can do the job alone.

The problem with IRL640A is that it is not in isolated package like IRIL44Z. So I need to isolate them from each other if I wanna parallel them. I have this: https://www.banggood.com/30pcs-Silicone-Thermal-Conductive-Pads-10x10x1mm-Heatsink-Chip-Compound-Pad-p-1120597.html for the job + the thermal compound (cheap one from Aliexpress).

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2018, 11:07:15 pm »
Also, if I got 4 mosfets with 4x0.33R for each one -> how can I set the global current by 1v per 1a method that I want?

I don't want any arduino or MCU for now... just a panel meter with 10-turn pot.

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2018, 11:56:10 pm »
I'll get back to the non-DC S.O.A rated MOSFET failure issue when I've found a good link that explains it.   Quick summary:  Many power MOSFETs consist of a number of MOSFET 'cells' that are internally paralleled by the metalization on the silicon die.  Just like paralelling discrete MOSFETs, the individual cells can suffer from hot-spotting, current hogging and resulting thermal runaway.

To get 1A/V from four CC MOSFET + OPAMP circuits combined is very simple.  Each has a native response of 3A/V, so the combo gives 12A/V.   Therefore all you need is a 12:1 ratio divider for the control voltage, probably with +/-10% trim range via a preset to enable you to compensate it for component tolerances.   
 

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2018, 12:26:47 am »
The 4*0.33 resistor per each mosfet is about 0.0825 ohms =~ 0.08 Ohms. So 1v/0.08 = 12A!

However, for 3x1R = 0.33 then yes. but this is gonna composed with 1/4 watts resistors which is terrible... will it handle the required power? perhaps 5x1 ohms resistors is better? this is gonna be about 0.20 ohms\1.25 watts per "branch".

^
I will try this via LTSpice and let you know tomorrow. I will update the Kicad project too. This way, I will get rid of the power resistor and by doing this anyone will be able to do this project with jelly bean component. I would need to buy more 1R resistors locally though!

So now we need the 10-turn pot to have 1v per 1a -> divide that by 5 to get it to work with 0.2R per branch resistor. This means getting a 10k pot after the 10-turn pot and adjust it to be /5. No need for extra accuracy since there is no software or measurement... just a panel meter which is the one to be calibrated. Or I can just put (1k+1k+1k+1k) + 1k to be /5 since no need to trimming. this could work right?

How about using one of those heatsinks in the picture for this?

Anyway, what about using IRB640A which has a DC curve? can it work?

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Re: DC dummy load circuit calibration
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2018, 12:42:29 am »
If I was using 0.33R resistors, I'd use three per MOSFET - it comes out nearer 0.1R that way, which is a good value to compromise between dissipation in the sense resistor and enough feedback voltage for good accuracy.

Even with 3x 1R 1/4W resistors they can tolerate 0.5A each for a total of 1.5A.     If you go for 0.33R 1/4W resistors, each can tolerate 0.87A.   In all cases its probably a good idea to derate it a bit as at full current they will run rather hot but they are within their rated dissipation.

Another way to handle the 10K multiturn pot would be to put 40K in series with the top end of it so there is only 1V across it.  However if you intend to use a voltmeter on the pot wiper for a digital readout of the setpoint, you'll want to put the scaling divider after the pot.   You'll probably also want a unity gain OPAMP buffer between the pot wiper and the scaling divider so it doesn't excessively load the pot.
 


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