Desoldering and Soldering Station Advice

[Adam60]

Which unit do you prefer for a desoldering station and what device do you prefer for a soldering station. I am looking to replace my current setup and want to get something which is higher end. I am looking at a ZD985 Desoldering station and a Hakko FX-888D soldering station.  Or I could get an all-in-one if something suits. Perhaps all in at $300-400 Cdn dollars. That's about $100 US right now 
 

[Audioguru]

I have had my own Weller temperature controlled soldering station for 50 years and used a few more at work. They still make and sell the same one today. The temperature is fixed by the tip part number and there is almost no electronics unlike some "Mickey Mouse" stations that use a light dimmer adjustable power circuit to mess up the heating. Because my soldering station is never too hot the tip lasts for years. If I solder to something that is huge then it automatically turns up the power to stay at its fixed temperature. I can leave it turned on all day and it simply reduces its power to prevent overheating.
 
Idling cheap soldering irons get too hot so the tip corrodes away soon. When soldering, the rosin in the solder immediately turns into charcoal and pcb copper lifts off. When soldering longer than a few seconds with a cheap iron then it gets too cold.

[GreyWoolfe]

I have the ZD-985 and it is a useful tool.  However, I wouldn't try to use it for anything but hobbyist use.  You can't really go wrong with the FX-888D.  I have its bigger brother, the FX-951 and am very happy I made the splurge.  I also owned the predecessor, the 936.  Make sure you buy the Hakko and tips for it from an authorized dealer, just too make fakes out there.  I personally would stick with separates.  There is always some sort of compromise with all in ones, think TV/VHS/DVD combos, if the player failed, you couldn't still watch TV if you sent the player out for repair as the TV went with it.

[Shock]

Start with the Hakko FX-888D and get a few genuine tips they start at about $5. 

While I don't recommend going to this extent this gives you an idea where to start:

Knife T18-K (good for wiping, drag soldering and removing bridges)
Hook T18-BR02 (bridge, or hard to reach spots)
Small Conical T18-S4 (hole poker)
Chisel long T18-DL32 (for tinning wires)
Chisel large T18-S3 (for high thermal mass)

Chisel T18-D08, T18-D16, T18-D24, T18-D32
My preference over the hoof, they work well for through hole and several smd techniques.

Hoof T18-C2, T18-C3, T18-C4
Brought these to try out and see if I liked them, I really prefer chisels but I've used these a lot over the years. Can be used for drag soldering. though the T18-CF tips are designed more for the task.

(I have several handles it's easier for me to run a few tips at the same time)

Seriously don't buy a desoldering gun till you know how to use desoldering wick and a desoldering pump/solder sucker. But if you must, save up for a decent one if you intend to use it a lot.

In a lot of situations the desoldering gun is useless. A hot air station on the other hand is extremely useful, you can rework and desolder almost anything with it but it's main advantage is smd work.

[Adam60]

Lots of good advice on here. I am probably going with the Hakko FX-888D for a soldering station as it seems to be the one most people prefer. I will take Shocks "tips", pardon the pun and get extra tips when I order it. I see a lot on Amazon. Are the majority of these fakes and does anybody know where to get a real 888? I am located in Ontario, Canada and of course, I don't want to pay more for it than I should so eliminating the markups would be beneficial.
As for desoldering, I am proficient with a pump and desoldering wick but I would like to get something a little quicker. The hot air station may be a solution. Does anybody have a favourite here? I see AOYUE come up a lot. Any particular model if this is the chosen one?

[xyrtek]

I posted about that brand you mentioned here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/two-questions-about-aoyue-int2703a/msg904526/#msg904526

Like audioguru mentioned a good weller station will outlive most of us. I will add that most importantly it just works.

You can even get some of the NOS tips if you look around or can get to a hamfest.

EDIT:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WELLER-TIPS-for-TC201-/272190786684?hash=item3f5fd5cc7c:g:8M4AAOSwxcRW-YUC

[Shock]

Amazon does sell counterfeit Hakko I know that. Visit Hakkos website or buy from a reputable dealer.

Not a bad price here but their tips seem a little expensive. I dunno it's hard to work out whats cheap in nuks. tequipment.net hakkousa.com and frys.com are really the comparison USA sites you should check against.

http://www.be-electronics.com/HAKKO_Soldering_iron_HAKKO_FX_888D_p/fx888d.htm

Should still be able to find cheap hot air stations on Ebay. $50 USD is a good price to pay compared to hundreds for a Hakko and the like. They do the job but remember it's price vs quality. One of the best things about these stations is the hot air nozzles are extremely cheap.

There is an open source controller firmware project on the forums here which may sway your choice as well.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/youyue-858d-some-reverse-engineering-custom-firmware/

[ade]

That's actually a very good price for the FX-888D from B&E electronics.

Active Tech (active123.com) is another Canadian Hakko authorized dealer.  They have a couple of stores in Ontario (Toronto & Ottawa).   Their 888D price is higher than B&E but the few tips that they have are a bit cheaper than B&E.

[Adam60]

Active 123 is no longer in Toronto. Go figure. They closed up last August. I will have to search around or maybe I will just get the Weller unit.

[AlxDroidDev]

I use a clone the ZD-915 (an older version of the ZD-985), and a Hakko FX-888D with an assortment if original T18 tips.

For hot air, I use a Dremel Versatip 2000, which is far from being a hot-air reworking station, but gets the job done and does a lot more. It is one of the tools I use the most. It also works as a soldering iron when I need to work on mains or with the mains off.

[nanofrog]

Another vote for (in the order listed):

• Soldering Station = Hakko FX-888D with genuine tips
• Desoldering = wick* + pump (Edsyn DS017)
• Save up for a hot air station

* Use quality brand name consumables, such as Chemtronics, Techspray, and Multicore/Henkel (for wick). For solder, Kester, AIM (American Iron & Metals), Multicore/Henkel, Techspray, Alpha Metals (Cookson), Indium, and MG Chemicals. For liquid flux, MG Chemicals sells hobbyist friendly sized bottles of their Rosin 835 as it's cheaper than disposable pens (type = RA, sizes are 125ml & 1L).

[Adam60]

I'm good with buying a hot air station. What brands do you suggest? If it makes desoldering faster and easier, I'm in!

[AlxDroidDev]

If it makes desoldering faster and easier, I'm in!

Do you plan on working with SMD? If so, the hot air station is definitely a must. Otherwise just postpone it until you really need it.

If all you do is through-hole components, then a ZD-985 is enough.

[ade]

Active 123 is no longer in Toronto. Go figure. They closed up last August.

I think it was Active Surplus (not Active Tech / 123) that closed up last August?  Active Tech still lists a Toronto location:

http://www.active123.com/Locations-ExtraPages.html

SMD Hot Air station -- a lot of people buy Atten 858D and other very similar inexpensive offerings from eBay.  But beware:

• Some have their mains wires connected and/or fused incorrectly, etc. (see below)
• Many are 220V units so be sure to get the right version

READ THIS THREAD before buying any cheapo Chinese product, hot air station or otherwise: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/

Many here are comfortable buying these products off eBay, and have the knowledge to inspect + fix any safety issue before first use.

Others prefer paying a bit more to not have to deal with these issues. SparkFun sells basically the same unit, under their own brand name, so should be better from a quality assurance standpoint:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706

[Adam60]

I would like to do some SMD work eventually. I have done a little but hard to do without proper equipment. Good catch on Active123. I must have misread that. I have a few friends up that way so maybe I will have them pick one up for me on the weekend.

Okay I have the Atten for hot air station, any other brands I might want to look at? I may go through Amazon for this, any issues?

[nanofrog]

I'm good with buying a hot air station. What brands do you suggest? If it makes desoldering faster and easier, I'm in!

• What will you be using it on besides desoldering and heat shrink?
• What kind of budget would you be willing to spend?

I ask, as I went looking for a balance suitable to a hobbyist bench that wouldn't break the bank or end up with junk and ended up with a Quick 861DW (not that impressed with Aoyue after seeing photos of the inside). This post has some links to photos of the innards of various stations that might be of interest (can show you the differences between a Hakko's insides vs. Quick and some others). Post just above has photos of the innards of an Aoyue 857A++.

It's a not so well known brand here in the US, but it has features and technology comparable to that used in the Hakko FR-810 (MSRP is $749; other well know brands are more $$$), yet this one only costs a fraction of the price as it currently sells for $235 (here). Tech wise, it uses a turbine pump rather than a diaphragm; features would include setback or auto-off when the hand piece is placed in stand, ..., has an intuitive UI, easy to change heating element (entire stainless assy.), and quick change nozzles (friction fit, so no screw clamp to mess with). Yet unlike most Chinese station brands, it's actually well built inside*.

* There's been some complaints from a couple of people lately of cuts in the hoses & shoddy metal case work (2x units of the 861 to the same user & 1x of a different model), but it appears to be a bad batch rather than the norm (last letter determines the plug & transformer; US = DW, UK = DA, EU = DS).

[Adam60]

My budget for the soldering/hot air/desoldering is roughly around $300-400. I figure that should get me some decent equipment. I will have a look at your messages and look through the inner workings of these units.

[KL27x]

The first question is :
What do you need to desolder?

I highly doubt an average hobbyist actually has any practical use for a vacuum desoldering station. Unless you happen upon a specific requirement. Simply salvaging/repairing a random part here or there will be done faster with a quality Edsyn desoldering pump with no warm up time and zero bench space.

Unless you have a high volume of boards to rework in a batch process, you can just leave the desoldering station alone, IMO. Even despite buying one specifically for such work, I still find a desoldering pump to quite effective and fairly comparable in efficiency when bench space/hose clutter, warm up time, consumables, and maintenance/cleaning is added to the equation. To put it bluntly, I don't think a desoldering station can possibly even pull its own weight outside of a high volume production environment.

Regarding desoldering pumps, I would have said Edsyn Soldapult is the cream of the crop. It's probably the most popular and copied pump, and there is a good chance there are a couple of these hanging around any serious production environment. But after a couple plus years of side by side use, I am now crowning the Soldapult III. It works just as well. But it's smaller, the plunger is easier/smoother to depress, the noise is less jarring when it trips, the tip can be rotated as needed. And after emptying it, the thing only goes back together one way. 

I'd invest in a decent soldering station. I love Hakko, myself. And if you're interested in SMD, a simple hot air station. And save up for a stereomicroscope. Under really good lighting and magnification, you might be surprised at what you can do with a regular soldering iron with flux and the right tips.

[Adam60]

I have looked into the Hakko FX888-D and it is now on order from Active123 out of Ottawa. The Toronto store is officially closed and nowhere to be found.

As for desoldering/hot air etc, I am semi-retired and just lazy when it comes to electronics. I like toys and this looks like one I want to have. So I am looking for the best bang for my buck and not afraid to spend a few bucks if it does a decent job. I am not doing production runs and I hate working with bulb suckers, vacuum pumps, desoldering wicks etc and just want the simplicity of turning something on that goes swoop, and I am done. So hot air station/desoldering station, whatever, as long as it does a nice clean job and is fairly priced.

As for the stereomicroscope, I am happy with my Andonstar USB microscope/laptop/monitor setup that I have. I may be losing sight but I can blow it up big and see what I need to see.

I think the next thing I wasnt to look at is a good digital scope. Rigol 1054? I have three analog scopes now but I need a good digital one. Then I need to learn how to use it  . That's for another thread

[edavid]

As for desoldering/hot air etc, I am semi-retired and just lazy when it comes to electronics. I like toys and this looks like one I want to have. So I am looking for the best bang for my buck and not afraid to spend a few bucks if it does a decent job. I am not doing production runs and I hate working with bulb suckers, vacuum pumps, desoldering wicks etc and just want the simplicity of turning something on that goes swoop, and I am done. So hot air station/desoldering station, whatever, as long as it does a nice clean job and is fairly priced.

I think you will be surprised by how much maintenance a vacuum desoldering station needs.  When they are working, I think they work a lot better than a Soldapullt, but there's definitely a hassle factor.

[KL27x]

just lazy

This is why I don't use a desoldering station. If I had too much extra bench space that was never being used, it might be different. I don't. I wouldn't use one even if it were free. Same with a reflow oven. I have both, and they're collecting dust in a closet. The kind of usage you're describing is exactly where I think a desoldering station will never pull its weight. As in not even worth the space it takes up.

Even if you don't do any CAD before hacking together a circuit on protoboard, you will still find it is easier to not screw up in the first place. A desoldering station isn't a magic eraser for mistakes. It takes work to maintain. And it takes a lot longer to heat up than a soldering iron. And it has a relatively bulky, stiff hose, compared to a soldering iron.

[Adam60]

So in your version of a perfect workbench, what would you use for desoldering. Say you wanted to remove Cpu's or IC's feom a board?

[KL27x]

It totally depends on the part and the board.

Sometimes it is easier to use a Soldapult. Sometimes it is easier to use hot air rework station. Sometimes it's easier to use a 1200W heat gun. Sometimes it's easier to use a big blog of solder with a regular soldering iron.

The desoldering station is really effective for a very limited and repetitive batch task of pulling lots of multi-lead thru hole parts, IMO.

[Adam60]

Okay, that is what I am looking for. I like to work on televisions, vintage stereo eqt., power supplies etc. Desoldering station sounds good. Maybe hot air station later.

[digsys]

I think you will be surprised by how much maintenance a vacuum desoldering station needs.  When they are working, I think they work a lot better than a Soldapullt,
but there's definitely a hassle factor. 

I find that the HAKO 474, with the short heating throat, is great to clean and use. The "pencil" versions are a total PAIN, and have a higher failure rate.
The HAKO FM204 is a POS, very long throat, always clogs and you have to replace the entire heater each time. But none of that compares to the -
JBC abortion ! Worst desoldering station I've ever bought.
If you use a lot of through hole components, my opinion is that a good one is a MUST. Hot air stations can also be problematic. First, yu start of with a huge array of
tip shapes, so you direct air only on the pins, which is GREAT in theory, but it turns out that it's noty that simple. Often, the solder is NOT where the tip directs it,
and if you move it one way, the other end heats the IC (square packages are the worst), and that is what you were trying to avoid (unless you don't care if the
chip is saved). So then you switch to single row tips, and quickly move around all 2 or 4 sides. That sort of works ok, except when they use high temp solder or glue.
So then you hold the IC with tweezers and apply slight upward pressure. You can spend years screwing around with different methods :-)
Other flood the IC with very low melt solder, use a broad air flow to melt it and tweezers to pull up the IC. That actually works well.
So the bottom line is, how many, how often, what variation of ICs do you expect? Many labs have all 3 tools, plus the low temp solder etc etc