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Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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DIY power supply
« on: August 02, 2018, 09:12:23 am »
so i finally got around to building a proper psu, and am wondering what kind of features i should put in it.

what i have to work with:

-desktop PC ATX PSU @ 300 watt
-various (regular) wall warts and PSU, incl one with selectable output (1.5v, 3v, 4.5v, 6v, 7v, 9v, 12v)
-various linear PSU from various devices
 ZVS driver + flyback converter
-various small buck and boost converter
-lm317 regulators
-78xx regulators
-panel mount volt/amp meter (x2)
-panel mount thermometer
-pots, relays, knobs, jacks etc.



....i'd post link but for some reason my links keep getting molested.
just assume every item is the cheapest version of it on ebay.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:17:28 am by Pirateguy »
 


Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 12:43:15 pm »
so i finally got around to building a proper psu, and am wondering what kind of features i should put in it.

what i have to work with:

-desktop PC ATX PSU @ 300 watt
-various (regular) wall warts and PSU, incl one with selectable output (1.5v, 3v, 4.5v, 6v, 7v, 9v, 12v)
-various linear PSU from various devices
 ZVS driver + flyback converter
-various small buck and boost converter
-lm317 regulators
-78xx regulators
-panel mount volt/amp meter (x2)
-panel mount thermometer
-pots, relays, knobs, jacks etc.



....i'd post link but for some reason my links keep getting molested.
just assume every item is the cheapest version of it on ebay.
OK, "so i finally got around to building a proper psu" sounds like it's done.. So show this Franken-Supply  :-//
 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 02:30:40 pm »
i got around to starting lol
still waiting for some stuff to come in and looking for an enclosure, and prolly will need to order some
final bits after deciding what all this thing will have to do.

but ready to start drawing up a plan.
for the moment the concept is:

-AC out 0-40v(ish)
-DC out 0-40v(ish)
-DC negative V out (?)
-AC constant current out
-DC constant current out
-DC out at typical battery voltages; 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12
-USB 5v out
-polarity inverting (with idiot proofing :P )
-volt/amp display
-thermometer display
-jack for connecting temp probe to thermometer
-function generator
-active cooling (have various sizes desktop pc fans for this)
-ZVS driver (?)

anything that should be on or not on this list?
also what would be the best ways to go about implementing?
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 02:56:01 pm »
IMHO you need to refine your requirements.  You are setting yourself up for failure by trying to build the "be all" to "end all" psu.  Get back to the basics and think about just a +/- dual DC supply (fixed or variable).  You can go a LONG way with just a +/-12VDC supply for analog projects and a +5VDC for digital projects.

Afterward, build an independent function generator based on something like the AD9834 DDS and a small MCU.

i got around to starting lol
still waiting for some stuff to come in and looking for an enclosure, and prolly will need to order some
final bits after deciding what all this thing will have to do.

but ready to start drawing up a plan.
for the moment the concept is:

-AC out 0-40v(ish)
-DC out 0-40v(ish)  A 0-30VDC range would seem to be easier to obtain
-DC negative V out (?)  A negative supply would be necessary for analog (op-amps)
-AC constant current out
-DC constant current out
-DC out at typical battery voltages; 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12
-USB 5v out
-polarity inverting (with idiot proofing :P )
-volt/amp display
-thermometer display
-jack for connecting temp probe to thermometer
-function generator

-active cooling (have various sizes desktop pc fans for this)
-ZVS driver (?)

anything that should be on or not on this list?
also what would be the best ways to go about implementing?
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 03:38:04 pm »
Some ideas for your project:
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 05:54:34 am by MarkF »
 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2018, 04:17:23 pm »
IMHO you need to refine your requirements.  You are setting yourself up for failure by trying to build the "be all" to "end all" psu.  Get back to the basics and think about just a +/- dual DC supply (fixed or variable).  You can go a LONG way with just a +/-12VDC supply for analog projects and a +5VDC for digital projects.

Afterward, build an independent function generator based on something like the AD9834 DDS and a small MCU.

i got around to starting lol
still waiting for some stuff to come in and looking for an enclosure, and prolly will need to order some
final bits after deciding what all this thing will have to do.

but ready to start drawing up a plan.
for the moment the concept is:

-AC out 0-40v(ish)
-DC out 0-40v(ish)  A 0-30VDC range would seem to be easier to obtain
-DC negative V out (?)  A negative supply would be necessary for analog (op-amps)
-AC constant current out
-DC constant current out
-DC out at typical battery voltages; 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12
-USB 5v out
-polarity inverting (with idiot proofing :P )
-volt/amp display
-thermometer display
-jack for connecting temp probe to thermometer
-function generator

-active cooling (have various sizes desktop pc fans for this)
-ZVS driver (?)

anything that should be on or not on this list?
also what would be the best ways to go about implementing?

How would that be an improvement over the switching wallwart i am already using?
also some of the things u crossed out could be done super simple.
like the set voltages i mentioned are already on current crappy diy psu, which is the innards of a switching wall wart
with the switch broken out to an external switch and the output tied to a couple of bananna sockets.
oh and a pocket multimeter taped to the top of it...
an improvement over the wallwart to be sure, but i am ready to build something better.

and what is a usb out other then 5v with a usb connector?
the biggest challenge there seems to be mounting the usb socket.
and if it is better to keep that separate or current limited or something,
i could just use one of the usb wall plugs i am using now and wire a panel mounted
usb socket to a usb plug...

also i intend to do a lot of experimenting with wireless powering of leds n small motors and plasma arcs.
so i feel like some kind of AC out of some sort would come in handy...

i should prolly explain that my main focus atm is in using electronics to make special effects for miniature dioramas.
medieval high fantasy stuff, for example: tiny jacob's ladder = magical soul stealing device, magnetically levitating magnets + epoxy clay = magically floating artifact,
tiny marx generator = magical demon summoning machine...

also the whole thing doesn't have to be one build, i intend to deal with each thing in there individually
and add them one at a time.
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2018, 10:15:52 pm »
I don't even know how to respond.
The phrase "Jack of all trades:  Master of none" comes to mind.

You said it best yourself -  Do you really want a bunch of switchable voltages from a crappy wall wart??
In most cases you are only going to use a couple fixed voltages and maybe one variable voltage.

For digital logic you will probably need a 3.3VDC and/or 5VDC.  If you don't mix your logic here, a variable DC supply for doing your projects may be the ticket.  The power requirements of each will in most cases be low for the majority of your projects (unless they are very large). 

I believe for most small motors you would be looking at +12VDC.  And if you go that far add a -12VDC output for other analog projects.  I have no idea what your requirements would be for your medieval fantasy stuff might require.  Your biggest problem here is keeping motor emf and other high voltage noise out of your lower microprocessor logic.

Somewhere along the line, I think you really should purchase an adjustable lab power supply with current limiting capabilities.  Something like the Rigol or the Siglent of the single output variety as a minimum.

As far as USB goes, most modern USB chargers have circuitry to indicate current capabilities of charger.  In particular, Apple devices.  Depends on what you want.

Bottom line here - I'm suggesting you determine what your REAL requirements are.


On the function generator side:  I DO NOT recommend the function generator you linked to in your first post.  The sine output is a filtered triangle that in most cases needs adjustment to be symmetrical.  I saw a few reviews and complaints about it somewhere. I can't remember where I saw them.
 
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Offline rdl

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2018, 03:17:09 am »
That function generator is not bad for the price, okay for a starter, but if you buy one, watch these:


"Design errors in an XR2206-based function-generator from Ebay "



"Fixing the issues with the XR2206 Function-Generator from EBay "


 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2018, 08:53:31 am »
Quote
The phrase "Jack of all trades:  Master of none" comes to mind.
i'm a hobbyist of the type that i learn what i need to get what i want. not someone who wants to
become an electronics expert. (hence i have many blind spots when it comes to planning this kinda thing)

clarification: it's not the wall wart i used that is crappy, the psu i made of it is crappy.
it's basically a 'tabletop-wart' now with some banana plugs and a pocked mm taped to it.

i actually ordered 2 function generators.
any thoughts on this one?
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Signal-Generator-PWM-Pulse-Frequency-Duty-Cycle-Adjustable-Module-Kit-3-3V-30V/332615961616?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

in any case a couple of points:
-i am too much of a noob still to really have a good idea of what my needs might be.
so far everything i have done is aimed at battery power or usb, but then this month i find myself messing around with kilovolts...
-my low skill level does restrict me, but you guys would know more about what that means in terms of what my needs are.
-i do know it means i will not be needing super accuracy or performance as i will not be doing anything particularly sensitive.
-my need for the func gen is really a matter of not having to build a 555 circuit every time a need a waveform. the waveforms i need are of the most basic kind:
pwm for driving motors and leds n stuff, and now i guess ill be needing it for tesla coils.
-like i posted above i have a bunch of power supplies i could use, including several non wallplug type linear ones from older heavier pc peripherals like older printers n stuff. i want the convenience of one big box that holds it all, but technically i could use a different supply for everything i put in the box.

so anyway right now i am thinking what i want is this:
3.3v, 5v, 12v fixed outputs + one variable.
as for amps, i was thinking 5 should have me covered? what would a pair of li-ion cells typically deliver?
i see no reason not to include the volt/amp and temperature displays. is there one?
i am not expecting accuracy, just a course indication and something to warn me of majorly wrong values
like when i have a short in a circuit or something like that and to reasure me that the psu is not about to catch fire.
i ordered that ZVS kit for experimenting with high voltage, any particular reason i should not build it into the same box?
i am not sure about the interface; does it make more sense to have an output for each voltage? or to have one and switch between them?
should i have multiple outputs for each voltage? i do have plenty of bananna jacks...
any particular traits i should look for when i look for an enclosure?
 

Offline plazma

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2018, 11:15:03 am »
Do you want the challenge of designing a working PSU or do you need a cheap one?

If the latter check out DPS5005 and similar modules. EEVblog also reviewed some models.

I have built few units with DPS5005 and DPS5015 modules. One unit got internal batteries for portability.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2018, 11:49:17 am »
Do you want the challenge of designing a working PSU or do you need a cheap one?

If the latter check out DPS5005 and similar modules. EEVblog also reviewed some models.

I have built few units with DPS5005 and DPS5015 modules. One unit got internal batteries for portability.

What's the ripple like on the DSP5005? I added a voltage boost winding to my Pace ADS200 to get 40vdc out the back and I'm looking for an add-on module (since the Pace station will always be on the bench, it's like having an invisible 80w PSU for $20).
 

Offline plazma

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2018, 11:51:51 am »
 19.2V input (Dell laptop PSU). 5V 5A output.
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2018, 11:54:59 am »
i actually ordered 2 function generators.
any thoughts on this one?
Yes, it would be nice if someone could comment, to know it's "flakey" :-+ I see alice1101983 has it listed at $3.26 USD
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-PWM-Pulse-Frequency-Duty-Cycle-Square-Wave-Signal-Generator-Module/202085368556
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2018, 12:06:52 pm »
19.2V input (Dell laptop PSU). 5V 5A output.

Nice, doesn't look bad at all.. (even better add a choke and cap, "she'll be alright")
You could put two SMPS 19v in series with a big diode between (to go higher), since AFAIK the DPS5005 cannot boost..

Here's my Pace transfo: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/my-first-pace-ads200-victim/msg1711994/#msg1711994
 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2018, 03:38:51 pm »
maybe i haven't been clear enough about my motivation.

i do not do anything that warrants spending $300 on a psu, or anything else for that matter.
my oscilloscope is a first generation dso nano, and i don't own a single component that wasn't the cheapest
one i could find on ebay and so far those parts have served me perfectly adequately.
such is the simplicity of my projects.

i am JUST a beginning hobbyist who wants to upgrade from the complete ghetto psu i have now
to a more convenient one.
performance is not much of an issue, neither is accuracy. in terms of functionality the collection of wallwarts i have would have served me fine,
but i want more convenience.

so essentially my question to you is: what is convenient?
what can i put in this box, and what manner can i put it in there that will come in handy for a beginning hobbyist like me?

what features do i need?
what features do i want?
what features can i put in there cuz 'i might as well since i have these things lying around and i have the box open anyway'?
what would be the more practical way of setting up connectors and switches etc for the above?
what 'traps for young players' should i look out for?

keeping in mind i will NOT be designing missile guidance systems or medical equipment.
i just want a big box that gives me a more convenient way of powering stuff, and it would be nice if it
gave me some basic info on what it is doing.
THESE are my questions.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2018, 04:06:06 pm »
i actually ordered 2 function generators.
any thoughts on this one?
Yes, it would be nice if someone could comment, to know it's "flakey" :-+

I've got one, the frequencies are only approx. mine runs about 2% fast.
The output TR and 1k pull-up rises ~50ns, falls ~10ns which means narrow pulses % at higher frequencies are off.
The + and - buttons and their acceleration work OK, but I'd describe it as set-able rather than adjustable.
I've only used it between 5V and 10V, which is enough for it to start getting warm.
So it's just about OK for the price. :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 04:08:15 pm by StillTrying »
.  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline rdl

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 04:52:35 pm »
Too bad you're not in the US. My recommendation for a beginner power supply is one of these:



They cover just about all beginner needs and are commonly found on ebay for $100-150 used. I would look for something similar as far as features and specs.
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2018, 07:06:01 pm »
It's really true: you want to do the 4th step before taking 1,2 and 3. You say it yourself: you are a beginning hobbyist. So why do you want to start all up with an advanced all-in-one device?

All you need in a labsupply is adjustable voltage with current limit and a voltage/current meter showing you the actual parameters.
So - why not to go - for example - with a LM723? The meters you get on aliexpress or you maybe already have them. You can even do 2 independent channels for opamp circuitry.

And: if you want a function generator to buy, watch at least out for a DDS-module with an AD9834. Nobody uses anymore those XR2206, ICL8038 or MAX038; they had their time, but these times are all over. A DDS is also a good diy project to get into uC-programming and the DDS-architecture.
 

Offline Jwillis

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2018, 05:33:49 am »
Oh let him have his fun.
40 volts and 5 amps can be a tough nut to crack if using BJTs .Power BJTs safe operating area drops off a lot over 30 volts so even the trusty 2N3055 is only capable of a couple amps flat out at 40 volts .That can shorten the life of the transistor. So if you want them to last you'll have to parallel 4 or 5 to keep the things cool. MOSFETs don't respond well to linear applications but can handle much more amperage when pulsed. Are you going to use MOSFETs or BJTs.Of course this is assuming you would like to build from scratch.Most PSU circuits on the web will only go to 30 volts since most regulators are really only capable of around 35 volts .Even the lm317 has a max rating of 37 volts.There are regulators that go higher like the TL783 if your looking for direct regulation.
If I may suggest a floating regulator like the LM723 or similar .They tend to be much more stable and are easier to use.There are others that use op amps as well .
There are hundreds of ways to build a PSU .It just depends on how complex and how modern to want it to be.
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2018, 12:32:07 pm »
Turn it around. What sort of things do you do with electronics?
Then make a power supply for those things.
You like electroplating? You may need 3V @ 100A.
You like microcontrollers? 3V3 and/or 5V is all you need.
You like opamps? A dual supply of + and - 15V will be handy.
You like motors? You want lot's of amps from a simple unregulated power supply.

An important feature for any lab power supply in my opimion is an adjustable current limit.
30V 3A was a sort of standard for 40 years, but electronics has changed a lot and those power levels are hardly ever needed anymore.

If you want to design something yourself and want to keep it cheap then I suggest to keep your goals within reason. 20V @1A will be a very usefull power supply and designing such a power supply with adjustable voltage and current limit wil give you plenty to do for a few months of spare time.
There are at least 2 different very common kits with adjustable voltage and current limit you have to solder yourself from China in the price range of < USD 10. If you complement those with voltage and current meters you have a quite decent power supply.

DPS5005 is step down only. However the DPH series from the same manufacturer can also do step up, some go up to 80V.
They also have simpler designs with 7-segment display's and push buttons instead of a TFT and rotary encoders for a price of around USD12.
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2018, 04:08:04 pm »
Too bad you're not in the US. My recommendation for a beginner power supply is one of these:



They cover just about all beginner needs and are commonly found on ebay for $100-150 used. I would look for something similar as far as features and specs.

Ditto on this, but I will add that this same PS was also sold by BK Precision as their model 1651. The ITT tech schools that went bankrupt a few years ago unloaded pallets of these on the liquidation market. This is a very solid PS and very easy to work on, and no fan so it is quiet. Tektronix just rebadged it, but in the process put together a very good service manual with full circuit description, troubleshooting, schematics and parts list. The manual is available on CD via ebay for about $12 and the scan is very good quality. In the last few months I picked up 3 of the BK flavor for under $35 each. One had a fault in the B supply, I got TEK's SM and tracked it down to a bad 10 cent diode. The seller replaced the PS for free and told me to keep the bad one :) I learned a lot tracking down that diode. Bottom line, the BK's are ugly compared to the TEK's, but are available far cheaper and it is the same hardware in a different color case.
 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 01:04:39 am »
Oh let him have his fun.
40 volts and 5 amps can be a tough nut to crack if using BJTs .Power BJTs safe operating area drops off a lot over 30 volts so even the trusty 2N3055 is only capable of a couple amps flat out at 40 volts .That can shorten the life of the transistor. So if you want them to last you'll have to parallel 4 or 5 to keep the things cool. MOSFETs don't respond well to linear applications but can handle much more amperage when pulsed. Are you going to use MOSFETs or BJTs.Of course this is assuming you would like to build from scratch.Most PSU circuits on the web will only go to 30 volts since most regulators are really only capable of around 35 volts .Even the lm317 has a max rating of 37 volts.There are regulators that go higher like the TL783 if your looking for direct regulation.
If I may suggest a floating regulator like the LM723 or similar .They tend to be much more stable and are easier to use.There are others that use op amps as well .
There are hundreds of ways to build a PSU .It just depends on how complex and how modern to want it to be.


indeed let me have my fun! that's a big part of the motivation behind the elaborations.
but also my projects are really all over the place.
i do work with arduinos from time to time, battery operated devices using all kinds of cells, but i also screw around with jacob's ladders and recently i have
gotten a bit obsessed with tesla coils, particularly small ones. and then i'm also gonna be messing with low voltage AC when i get around to playing with this EL wire i have, and now recently i have been looking at diy spot welders.
my main focus though is on special effects for miniature dioramas, and for this i am looking at pretty much anything i can get done at a low cost, incl;
various high voltage spark thingies like the marx generator, and i want to see how small i can make a plasma ball, ultrasonic foggers to animate liquid,
electromagnets to mage items float in midair, tiny animatronics, floating water drops using a strobe, etc etc.

so yeah, variation is desirable.

and no i will not be building from scratch.
though i might do something similar from scratch for a specific project some time.

atm i am thinking of taking this approach:

step 1: build basic PSU out of old ATX psu with a single output that switches between the different voltages available from the ATX.
(-12 and -5 are on there, so why not inculde them) along with a volt/amp display and a temperature display.
possibly later i will expand this above 12v with some boost converters or something.
(so far everything should fit into the original ATX housing.)

step 1b: add a dedicated usb port or 2 on front and/or a series of them on the rear of the unit.

step 2: build second half of this unit in the form of a 317 based variable supply along with another volt/amp display.
i may use a different source for this, like the 32v 1.5A PSU i have (a particularly nice one from HP with lots of safety features)
in which case i would need a larger housing.

step 3a-z: over time add more features to the larger housing such as an AC output, func generator/pwm generator, dummy load, second temperature display (for ext), etc.

step 4: maybe integrate a ZVS driver in the thing.

i imagine this taking place over the course of a year or 2.
 

Offline PirateguyTopic starter

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2018, 01:11:58 am »
on the topic of function generators, i do have some ICL 8038 ICs that i could build one with.
i also have various arduinos and one of those cheap arduino starter kit LCD displays, as well as a small tft screen.

how would u rate the challenge level of such a project?

incidentally i have put together that XR2206 thing and BOY does it suck! lol
i might try to implement those improvements in those videos posted, but i'm not sure it's worth it.
prolly end up using it in some project for some specific task or something...
 

Offline Jwillis

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Re: DIY power supply
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2018, 02:13:20 am »
Sounds like you have a version 1 ATX.Version 2 has no -5V.
A simple rotary switch would work or individual output terminals up to you .A variable supply can be wired from the -12v and  +12v and common ground using split rail regulation.Check around for split rail PSU or you can get assembled + and - adjustable power modules on Ebay.  But you will only get the maximum current available of the Negative rail  (-12V).  Or just use an adjustable module from the +12V and common .The USB can be wired directly from the +5V and Com.
A simple digital volt meter ,amp meter and temp meter with sensor can be powdered from appropriate voltage source .Either +12V and common or +5V and common check the meters specifications.
If you intend on a high voltage output I would keep that as a separate isolated output from the low voltage outputs.I would even go as far as a separate transformer .There are modules available based on the TL494 IC that run off of 12VDC .These are low amperage from around a few micro amps to a few milli amps.   

The sense wire on the ATX just needs to be switched to ground to turn the unit on usually a green wire but check the pin outs for your specific PSU.All the same polarity and voltage wires can be tired together. Yellow for +12V .Blue for -12v.Red for +5V, white for -5V and orange for 3.3V .Black wires are ground . Grey wire can be tied to a LED and resistor to indicate the unit is on.Again check the pin outs for your specific PSU.Wire colors may be different.

The total current available is dependent on the ATX. I've not seen version 1 ATX power supplies over 500W.
 


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