Author Topic: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs  (Read 1976 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fiddle_er

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« on: July 10, 2016, 11:16:17 pm »
As a general fiddler type person i thought i would look into the idea of building an ultra sonic cleaner. firstly i looked at buying new and all i can afford is the tiny jewellery type. i want to clean motor bike parts mainly carburettor stuff. ldeally 18' x12' x 10' bath size. seen on you tube the idea of resting container on hi fi speeker and letting your music rock it clean  8) Well probably not quite ultra sonic but maybe good enough? This brings me to my thought ; is it pheasable to connect a dual output sig generator to a speaker direct or would i need amp. (sorry not sure at moment what make /model generator is, as i cannot find it, but it is old 30yr old ) . how does this idea sound to you chaps
 

Offline DTJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 706
  • Country: au
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 12:04:12 am »
Have you seen this?

Silicon Chip Magazine August ‘10


http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6021-high-power-ultrasonic-cleaner-kit/
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2942
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 12:34:39 am »
Well it's not going to be a HiFi speaker for long.  :palm:

Speakers are pretty inefficient at converting electrical energy into sound energy, particularly the average home speaker. In addition the tweeter's power handling is very restricted. Add to that trying to get the sound energy into a tank of water and...No chance.

Ultrasonic cleaners on the other hand employ efficient transducers, directly coupled into the side of the tank and operating at high power, far higher than you would ever want to pump into a speaker.

As DTJ says, you can get kits, although an off the shelf cleaner may sadly be your cheapest option.

EDIT: Given the size you're wanting, it will need to be a powerful cleaner - you might do best looking for a second-hand industrial one.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 12:39:29 am by Gyro »
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline Fiddle_er

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 12:59:18 am »
like the kit idea, looks the business if it is as powerful as it looks? it is a gamble though buying kit nearly £1 to $1 dollar these days then customs not sure what that would add?  build it and if you were given faulty component in the first place you have not recourse according to their info. so would need to test transducer somehow at least first. Having said all that i cannot dismiss it. as i was considering using it to clean my homebrew buckets, so as i just thought of that now , more uses means justify higher cost? i was looking at this site earlier 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LuiFure-Ultrasonic-Solution-Commercial-Cleaning/dp/B0195XZPO8/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1468162217&sr=8-14&keywords=ultrasonic+cleaner

looks like i forgot how to post links, doh but it is amazon several sizes are available under 100 quid, but then not as flexible as the kit? now i need to weigh this up thanks great response.
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2942
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 01:11:24 am »
Very difficult to judge. The kit mentions using a 12V 2.5A mains adapter which implies an absolute maximum
output of 30W assuming 100% efficiency, which it isn't. The amazon ones say 120W (plus tank heater). You probably need to decide your minimum acceptable dimensions and work from there.

P.S. There are loads on ebay, I just saw a 15l 360W  :o
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15L-15-L-ULTRASONIC-CLEANER-CLEANING-BASKET-PERSONAL-USE-6-SETS-TRANSDUCERS-/262358724618?hash=item3d15cc700a:g:9zkAAOSwwo1XfKeR
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 01:17:39 am by Gyro »
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline Kleinstein

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3937
  • Country: de
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 01:16:12 am »
The ultrasonic cleaners use quite efficient piezo drivers directly coupled to the bath. DIY is difficult here, as the mechanical coupling is rather delicate (e.g. defined thickness of glue / insulation). The efficiency is rather high and thus sound pressure levels really high (e.g. 160 dB range, compared to 100 dB for audio) - that't needed to get cavitation. Below the threshold for cavitation cleaning is way less efficient.

Commercial units are available also for larger size at not so high price - DIY will not make a cheaper: you likely pay more more to get just the piezos attached to a container. The electronics often works directly mains connected with the piezo isolated from the container. Hard to get reliable without quite some experience.

With a electromechanical driver you will have a heated unit to work a high temperature, if at all.
 

Offline Fiddle_er

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 03:28:22 am »
i am trying to keep to fifty quid, thats why i was looking at utilising my own stuff, but if i have to buy a good transducer i belive that will eat into that figure greatly? the flexibility of the kit , having no tank means on the surface greater flexibility. As mentioned assuming the power of 30watts and in relation to cleaning of a 10 gallon home brew bucket i am not sure its good enough. i watched youtube and the wave penitration in shallow liquids so not really having any knowledge in this area , i m guessing a bucket as mentioned is industrial size cleaner territory.
where now? i suppose i will limit my needs to car cylinder heads which i could do 1/2 at a time to reduce liquid that needs to be stimulated. 'i am assuming that this is what it is all about?

further more if i spend money on a hundred quid on a set up , does anyone know how long they last the transducers that is. i did read in the "altronics" reviews that mentioned burning out of the electronics from long time using, and thats why they have timer.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:33:41 am by Fiddle_er »
 

Offline sokoloff

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: us
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 03:36:28 am »
As a general fiddler type person i thought i would look into the idea of building an ultra sonic cleaner. firstly i looked at buying new and all i can afford is the tiny jewellery type. i want to clean motor bike parts mainly carburettor stuff. ldeally 18' x12' x 10' bath size.
I think you should watch Spinal Tap first.

No one needs an ultrasonic cleaner the size of a large room...  ;D

In all seriousness, I think I'd go buy the Harbor Freight 95563 and cannibalize it for parts (make another basin and basket and attach the ultrasonic driver and the bottom of the basin from the HF unit to yours).

I have the HF 95563 and it's quite good for a Harbor Freight tool. The water in the basin heats quickly, even without the heating element engaged, meaning it's probably dumping a lot more than 30W into the water.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:39:34 am by sokoloff »
 

Offline MosherIV

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 897
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 03:54:34 am »
Hi

I worked for a company that make ultrasonic measurement equipment in the past.

Quote
i am trying to keep to fifty quid, thats why i was looking at utilising my own stuff, but if i have to buy a good transducer
The transducers are such a specialty thing, it will probably cost you £50 just for the transducer. FYI the company I worked made their own and charged 100s to 1000s for them.

Kleinsteins adavice is sound in my oppinion
Quote
The electronics often works directly mains connected with the piezo isolated from the container. Hard to get reliable without quite some experience.
By the time you have worked out how to drive the transducer and bought the parts for it, you be up to the £50 mark. The circuitry is very complex to do this, simple in principle but the theory behind the physics is mind boggling. Many of my colleages were Phds, I was only employed to do the firmware so I did not need to know all of the detiails of why and how the electronics did the ultra sound.

FYI, the messurement transducers are also piezo ceramic and were pulse with 200 to 400V in nansecond pulses.
 

Offline Fiddle_er

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 08:04:28 pm »
Yes i have learnt 50 quid goes nowhere these days. So i am back to square one. this

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/LuiFure-Ultrasonic-Solution-Commercial-Cleaning/dp/B0195XZPO8/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1468162217&sr=8-14&keywords=ultrasonic+cleaner

The harbour freight is in another country and i foind 'us ' astronomical has postage prices, so i leave it , but this harbour frieght does sound a good place i watch youtube bloke SV seeker who always gets stuff from there.
 

Offline sasquatch

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2016, 10:53:57 pm »
I've found one of the most effective ways to clean oily/gunked up engine parts is to use a cheap second hand dishwasher. You can easily fit relatively large parts in them and they just work. you should easily be able to pick one up for £50
 

Offline DTJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 706
  • Country: au
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2016, 11:04:48 pm »
Dishwashers or old commercial glass washers are good value.

Just need to be careful about putting aluminium parts in with caustic dish washing tabs. The caustic can dissolve some aluminium and badly mark some cast aluminium.
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2210
  • Country: gb
  • M0UAW
Re: diy ultra sonic cleaner Qs
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 03:07:31 am »
I've found one of the most effective ways to clean oily/gunked up engine parts is to use a cheap second hand dishwasher. You can easily fit relatively large parts in them and they just work. you should easily be able to pick one up for £50

Works well, I've used them in the past for plastics, cases and occasionally I've thrown a board or two through one.

M0UAW
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf