Author Topic: Dremel / Dremel like device?  (Read 4189 times)

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Online paulca

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Dremel / Dremel like device?
« on: March 08, 2018, 07:54:25 am »
Are there any recommendations for dremel/rotatory tools and stands to make life easier for making enclosures?

99% likely to be small ABS / plastic enclosures.  I was thinking a dremel was something you bought for the local hardware shop for £80 that came with virtually nothing, but a quick search on ebay suggests I can get a rotary tool with a pilar stand and router bits for under £100!

The choice is a bit wide though and I'm sure some of the compatibles are rubbish, so I thought I would ask.
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Offline HecticZA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 08:06:09 am »
Maybe Proxxon?
Haven't used them. I still have the old Dremmel 300 with a flex shaft and still happy with it.

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Offline Benta

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 08:35:07 am »
In the hobbyist area, there's basically only Dremel and Proxxon. In your local supermarket you'll encounter similar tools as "no-name", far east products sometimes. Very cheap, and that's it.
Advantage of Dremel and Proxxon: they're a whole range of machines and accessories, that you'll also be able to buy years from now, plus spare parts.

Which one you choose is up to you.

If you quadruple your budget, there are professional/industrial machines available.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 09:01:01 am »
I got my Dremel tool at a garage sale for something like $5, a heck of a lot cheaper than buying one new. For the accessories I've found that a lot of the Harbor Freight bits and cutoff wheels work as well as the genuine stuff for a whole lot less money.

When it comes to enclosures though I rarely use a rotary tool. Instead a step drill (those funny cone shaped things), nibbler tool and hand files are my usual tools of choice.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 09:17:23 am »
Dremel is a high speed low torque tool, not the best tool to work plastic. If you want to make round holes get a drill stand. If you want to make rectangular holes using just a drill or Dremel it is going to be difficult to make nice straight and corner cuts. You are talking now about a entry level milling machine or router and that cost more than a 100 buck.
 
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Offline BrianHG

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 09:47:05 am »
If you are building more than 2 or 3, a real semi-pro or professional drill press will get you much more mileage.  Including the ability to mount jigs on the base of the frame, the ability to use low rpm/high torque speeds.  And square-punch drill bits:

Square Hole Drill Bits Mortising Chisel Set, Mortise Chisel & Bit Set : https://www.amazon.ca/Atoplee-Woodworker-Square-Mortising-Mortise/dp/B01CXX1K3C/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_lp_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=S1NFNMFFVWAY1TYJDCQ9

For those square holes.  -The trick here is to drill your plastic above a piece of hard wood to prevent really bad bent corners in the plastic. -  You might want to warm up the plastic with a hair dryer to soften it if it is a brittle plastic.

Example drill press:
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4208-5-Speed-Drill-Press/dp/B00HQONFVE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1520462907&sr=1-1&keywords=drill+press

Attachable vice for drill press:
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W3939-Hammer-Tough/dp/B002RTKFWU/ref=pd_bxgy_469_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B002RTKFWU&pd_rd_r=JYQGJJPEB2A6F72R27D9&pd_rd_w=QVwCC&pd_rd_wg=8dUVp&psc=1&refRID=JYQGJJPEB2A6F72R27D9&dpID=41BCJvSji8L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:50:56 am by BrianHG »
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 09:49:31 am »
An important part of drilling plastic is the drill bit.   Typical 118° twist drills tend to "hog in", meaning they pull themselves in.   With hard plastics (e.g. acrylic and polycarbonate) that can lead to cracking.  With abs, it can lead to control difficulty with the object climbing uncontrollably up the bit.


The solution is to "dub off" the acute cutting angle of the lips to more like 90° so the action is more scraping than digging.  That is easy to do on a bench grinder or you can buy plastic cutting bits.   Of course, speed is a major variable, and you don't want the plastic to melt and bind to the drill bit.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:26 am »
Actually, with the Dremel, I do like their miniature cutting disc.  Carefully, I have cut and sanded openings on cheap Chinese project boxes using it without melting the plastic on the slowest speed.

With a good set, you also get milling/burrs bits which also carve away the plastic without making crap edges or melting.  But, they are harder to control than drill bits.  You need a sturdy stand for the drill to do any good with them.  Which kinda leaves you back to my above drill press, with a good dremel bit kit.

https://www.amazon.com/10pcs-Milling-Rotary-Carving-Dremel/dp/B01H72VWYG/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1520464534&sr=8-21&keywords=dremel+bit+set
https://www.amazon.com/Yosoo-Tungsten-Carbide-Dremel-Rotary/dp/B00CYA6I46/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1520464273&sr=8-8&keywords=dremel+bit+set


https://www.amazon.com/Lukcase-Diamond-Cutting-Cut-off-Blades/dp/B01LWYXPJZ/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1520464273&sr=8-12-spons&keywords=dremel+bit+set&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/WORKPRO-276-piece-Accessories-Universal-Polishing/dp/B0109U88KE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1520464273&sr=8-7&keywords=dremel+bit+set
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 10:23:50 am by BrianHG »
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 12:52:05 pm »
A router table is very useful for making cutouts in an enclosure. A 1/8" carbide endmill will cut any plastic, sheet metal, or FR-4. But some larger tungsten carbide burrs will do the coarser work, faster, and save some time and wear and tear. Proxxon tools are much lower in noise and runout than a Dremel, but they are a bit spendy. I'm not sure if they have any more torque, but they have a lower max rpm. 15 to 20K, depending on the model, vs 35k for typical Dremel. I have a couple of Dremel tools, too, and they work great for what I need in a hand-held tool. The proxxon are more handy/universal when it comes to mounts. They have a steel collar of the same diameter on all their rotary tool models, and you can buy tool holders for them (or easily make your own) if you want to build a router table. (The mini router tables for sale are pretty limited).  The Dremels are more of a hack together a mount by eyeball and strap it in with hose clamps. I don't know they have a universal shape for a standard mount, yet, but I haven't been in that market for a decade.

I use a Proxxon in a router table fairly frequently. I have worn out the motor on one of them. This setup is still good enough I haven't upgraded to a full size router table, yet. I just bought another Proxxon. Just made some HDPE bushings, this afternoon, to fit a 1000 foot reel of wrap wire to my dispenser.  My supplier changed spools on me. :)

I adapted a $30.00 Harbor Freight drill press table into a Proxxon router table. It is a fairly easy project if you have a drill press and a power saw. It took mainly some scraps of plywood and some assorted hardware, plus a 2x4 to make the legs. With this baby router table, I can make a surprising array of complex plastic and wood parts to fairly tight tolerances. Check out Matthias Wandel's web page and look at his router table build. It is very easy. My table is roughly based on this, minus the wood-gear lift system and with the addition of a tilt mechanism which I added mainly for V-scoring FR-4.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 02:02:31 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline Wimberleytech

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 02:32:16 pm »
Are there any recommendations for dremel/rotatory tools and stands to make life easier for making enclosures?

99% likely to be small ABS / plastic enclosures.  I was thinking a dremel was something you bought for the local hardware shop for £80 that came with virtually nothing, but a quick search on ebay suggests I can get a rotary tool with a pilar stand and router bits for under £100!

The choice is a bit wide though and I'm sure some of the compatibles are rubbish, so I thought I would ask.

Dremel is a great tool.  I have several.  Cheap knock-offs are pretty much crap (I have one).

BUT...WHAT HAS REVOLUTIONIZED ENCLOSURES FOR ME?
3D PRINTER!!

Yeah, I still use my Dremel to tweak this and that, but the 3D has allowed me to do projects I never would have attempted.
 
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Offline Teledog

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 05:04:35 pm »
I have a hand Dremel & a couple knock-offs (great for sanding your calloused feet, BTW)
Bought one of these on a US road trip;
https://www.harborfreight.com/flexible-shaft-grinder-and-carver-40432.html
There are "jewelers versions" at 4-6X the price
I really like the fact that it's foot pedal- speed controlled, and it works very well for grinding out soft plastic, and thin aluminum/metals & WHY
Adjustable chuck (you need multiple collets for a dremel/knockoff)
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Online VEGETA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 05:39:46 pm »
I have got this one from China:

https://www.banggood.com/220V-72W-Micro-Electric-Hand-Drill-Adjustable-Variable-Speed-Electric-Drill-p-1110910.html

didn't test it yet but it seems nice, came in a good box with many bits and accessories. I also got these too:

https://www.banggood.com/10pcs-Diamond-Saw-Discs-Wheel-Blade-Rotary-Tool-Set-For-Dremel-p-936102.html

total cost is around 30$ + 4$ = 34$= ~35$. IMO, this is good enough and there are other choices from banggood too.

regards

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 05:45:44 pm »
One more vote for Proxxon. The one I have is reliable tool (German quality!) that seems to be well engineered as it doesn't generate much vibrations even at high speed.
I'd suggest to search for a good offer in some German webshop (or big reseller like amazon.de)
 

Online paulca

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 07:10:32 pm »
Yea, it was the routing bits and a stand that peaked my interest again in a Dremel.

A 3D printer is on my radar too.  It seems a cheap clone of the defacto printer is around £180.  However a few hours on YouTube suggests they can be a bit unreliable and the £180 quickly turns into £280 after replacing some of the parts with genuine ones.  A fully genuine 3D printer (the model name escapes me this morning) is around £500.

Those diamond cutting discs seem like a nice option, if I can get them small enough.

Also makes me realise I should really get myself a desk vice.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 07:43:23 pm »
+1 for Proxxon.
I am using several tools from them and I like their quality and precision. Imho much better than Dremel.

They have also a lot (really, a lot!) accessories for their handheld tools.

Here is a link to their website:
https://www.proxxon.com/en/
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Offline picandmix

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 08:29:00 pm »
You say small plastic enclosures, but what quantity are you talking about, the odd project box or small batch production ?

As said, don't think there is a realistic alternative to a Bench Pillar Drill for the outline and a set of flat files to finish the edges, plus a bit of time and patience.

You can pick up a basic one from the usual places for around £60, Argos, Toolstation , Screwfix  seem to sell the same thing with a different paint job, they might be cheap but they seem to last for years, mine has.

Also very handy for drilling pcb holes etc , if needed you can but these chuck adapters for really small bits.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Jaw-Keyless-Drill-Chuck-6mm-1-4-Hex-Shank-Holds-Micro-Drills-0-3-6-5mm-BI147/162894624122?epid=20016090162&hash=item25ed46b57a:g:t1cAAOSwuIRanjz~
 

Offline cowasaki

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« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:11:05 pm by cowasaki »
 

Online capt bullshot

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 09:55:01 pm »
As some others here also did, I'd vote against a Dremel or similar for working on small plastic enclosures. You'll get better results by using a proper bench drill,  or a cordless screwdriver with drill bits, a jigsaw (fret saw) and a small file.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:56:35 pm by capt bullshot »
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Online ebastler

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2018, 01:40:09 am »
Another vote against the Dremel or similar. In my mind, these are tools for free-hand engraving (if that's your thing) and for general botch jobs. ::)

As Bud mentioned above, the high speed and low torque is not what you want for drilling and miling -- even less so with plastics, which will melt unless you water-cool. And besides, while the better brands (Dremel, Proxxon) should have decent bearings for the drill shaft, those bearings are not designed to withstand the lateral forces during milling!
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2018, 01:52:38 am »
When i was a poor student i used nylon string and my hands to make long/rectangular cuts in plastic, followed by finishing with a file. A tecnique largely forgotten by now.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 03:47:00 am »
My friend has a 3D printer and honestly I have not been all that impressed. He spent a huge amount of time getting it dialed in and still it's mostly only useful for printing trinkets and toys for his kid. The sort of enclosures it could print are not going to match the quality of the cheapest molded boxes from China although it does allow for some interesting custom designs. Hopefully development continues and the printers keep getting better.
 

Offline Wimberleytech

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 04:09:10 am »
My friend has a 3D printer and honestly I have not been all that impressed. He spent a huge amount of time getting it dialed in and still it's mostly only useful for printing trinkets and toys for his kid. The sort of enclosures it could print are not going to match the quality of the cheapest molded boxes from China although it does allow for some interesting custom designs. Hopefully development continues and the printers keep getting better.

I beg to differ.  Here is one of MANY examples of enclosures I have printed.
 

Offline Wimberleytech

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2018, 04:11:52 am »
My friend has a 3D printer and honestly I have not been all that impressed. He spent a huge amount of time getting it dialed in and still it's mostly only useful for printing trinkets and toys for his kid. The sort of enclosures it could print are not going to match the quality of the cheapest molded boxes from China although it does allow for some interesting custom designs. Hopefully development continues and the printers keep getting better.

I beg to differ.  Here is one of MANY examples of enclosures I have printed.

And here is another
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2018, 04:13:52 am »
^^ which I think proves james_s's point exactly: those 3D printed enclosures are good in that they are tailored to the application, they look crusty as hell. It is relatively easy to make something reasonably presentable (in the sense of something you could sell to a client) from an off-the-shelf enclosure; consumer 3D printed enclosures are unpresentable without massive hand rework (filling, sanding, painting, …).
 

Offline Wimberleytech

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 04:27:57 am »
^^ which I think proves james_s's point exactly: those 3D printed enclosures are good in that they are tailored to the application, they look crusty as hell. It is relatively easy to make something reasonably presentable (in the sense of something you could sell to a client) from an off-the-shelf enclosure; consumer 3D printed enclosures are unpresentable without massive hand rework (filling, sanding, painting, …).

Whatever.  Use your dremel.
 


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