Flux in Europe

[screwbreaker]

... Bonkote refillable brush pen ...

JBC also have something like this: http://www.jbctools.com/fl-a-flux-brush-55-ml-product-152-category-17-menu-1.html

It may contain 5.5 ml instead of 7, but it's cheaper and can be purchased individually.

https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/FL-A/

https://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/accessories/flux.html

[RoGeorge]

From the picture, the JBC flux pen looks exactly like any water brush pen, it doesn't seem to have a double chamber like Bonkote.

[Rolo]

I use this pen, works well. Must say it's my first flux experience. Going to do more SMD stuff. I have read that flux is your friend in soldering and it's true.

[screwbreaker]

From the picture, the JBC flux pen looks exactly like any water brush pen, it doesn't seem to have a double chamber like Bonkote.

You have right. It's made to be used with the JBC FL-50, which is a water based flux.

[kalel]

If I understand properly, the question even if you used DIY flux (rosin with alcohol) is would it dissolve the plastic or brush fibers? Is this something that can be tested in practice, or are microscopic/invisible changes problematic?

[janoc]

If I understand properly, the question even if you used DIY flux (rosin with alcohol) is would it dissolve the plastic or brush fibers? Is this something that can be tested in practice, or are microscopic/invisible changes problematic?

Rosin flux (rosin dissolved in alcohol) doesn't attack plastic, at least not the common stuff you will find in electronics. It leaves an ugly sticky residue, though - you may want to clean that up (IPA works well for that), both for the aesthetics reasons and if you are working on some higher speed stuff.

[tooki]

Can you get MG Chemicals ones?

Haven't seen it in stores around EU.

Amazon.com will ship the MG Chemicals flux to Europe — I use their paste flux (comes in a syringe, with a plunger) and it’s great.

[ChrisLX200]

Quote from: tooki on Today at 06:20:22 AM

Amazon.com will ship the MG Chemicals flux to Europe — I use their paste flux (comes in a syringe, with a plunger) and it’s great.



A sore point. Today I should have received some MG Chemical Rosin Flux from Amazon but as far as I can tell it was 'delivered' half a mile away. I just phoned them to say, as far as I'm concerned, the item was NOT delivered to me. They said they would investigate and get back to me in a few days. I told them that as it happens my Prime membership is also up for renewal in a few days and I just cancelled it... This is on top of the previous delivery (a fairly large box with an electric heater in it) being dumped on my doorstep, in the rain. In both cases no-one rang the doorbell ( I was in all day) or dropped a note through the door. Had enough of this 'Prime' service.

[nanofrog]

Probably the brush material is the same, but most of the water brush pens does not have a double chamber, like Bonkote.

Anyway, I just checked the prices, and there are nowhere so expensive as in $15-$20 for 1 pcs.
On Aliexpress they are less than $1.5/piece in 1 pcs, totally OK:
BONPEN BONKOTE BON-102 - 1 pcs $1.33, shipping included
BONPEN BONKOTE BON-102 - 1 pcs $1.37, shipping included

I have one from Aliexpress and is just fine. It works perfectly, just that I'm not a fan of liquid flux. I prefer the gel/paste flux.

FWIW, those you linked are counterfeit. If you get one that works, it's a bargain. But beware there are serious QC issues; namely the guts that make the valve don't work.

Regarding the JBC pen, Hakko also offers one. Didn't order one though as it's more expensive than a genuine Bonkote.

For those in the UK/EU that are interested in MG Chemicals 835 RA, Circuit Specialists Europe carries it for 5.95GBP ex. VAT (here). Least expensive source in the UK/EU market I'm aware of.

[dorcky]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to electronics and new at this forum. I wanted to share with you the information that you will read below, so in case anyone in the future decide to visit topic by trying to 'hunt down' an amtech distributor in europe, he can find this topic and 'this post' and read it.

So, lets start...

I was looking what flux should I buy. I did some research and I ended up at youtube watching Rossmann suggesting Amtech tacky flux NC-559-V2-TF.



I know that Amtech flux is being sold (fake one) from china, and since I don't want to use fake Amtech, I was looking where to buy original one. So I've checked his (Rossmann's) website and IMO his price of $21.99 for 30cc volume tube doesn't look 'too expensive' (maybe I'm wrong, I don't know) BUT, since I don't live in USA, shipping cost would 'kill the whole purpose' of getting it. I guess shipping from USA to europe is at least 20 bucks. (plus customs fee)... NO WAY!


Anyway, I checked Amtech website but I coudn't find tacky flux that Rossmann suggest (NC-559-V2-TF) listed on Amtech website (as Rossmann) already said, 'its not listed'.

[url]http://www.inventecusa.com/tacky-flux.html[/url]

^ the only one from '559' serie which is listed is NC-559-ASM

They do have listed solder paste NC-559-V2 but not tacky flux (NC-559-V2-TF). At the other hand, there is a listed solder paste NC-559-ASM, along with already mantioned NC-559-ASM-TF (tacky flux)

[url]http://www.inventecusa.com/amtech-data-sheets.html[/url]


So, I decided to contact Amtech directly and ask them do they really have a tacky flux which they sell under name NC-559-V2-TF, and where to buy them in europe (what are european authorized distributors).

I got a respond that they do produce that tacky flux (NC-559-V2-TF). She also said: "We do sell the NC-559-V2 TF to the Rossmann Repair Group". Then I was told that all their fluxes are already listed on their website. I thought, maybe I was blind.. 'lets check again'. And, again, there was NO tacky flux which I was looking for (NC-559-V2-TF) listed on their website. I also received a list of two website to check it for Amtech flux products, since they are 'closer to me'.


=========================================
Poland

Transfer Multisort Elektronik Sp.zo.o.
ul. Ustronna 41
93-350 Lodz
Poland
Ph: 48.42.645.7021
Fx: 48.42.640.0107
Web: [url=http://www.tme.pl]www.tme.pl[/url]

=========================================
Russia

DCM-GROUP, LLC
Zubovsky Boulevard, 21-23,
room I, room 3,
119021 Moscow
Russia
Ph: +7 (495) 116-00-58
FX: +7 (495) 116-00-58
Web: esd-line.ru
=========================================

So... I decided to check russian site (esd-line.ru) and...I also sent them a message asking for the price and how much would it cost shippin to send it to my country. I got a reply from them, telling me that they only distribute in Russia and not EU.

I then checked tme.pl (tme.eu) and I got pizzed because on tme.eu, I coudn't find tacky flux that I'm looking for (NC-559-V2-TF) listed. tme.eu website list the flux like this:

NC-559-TF

^ so you're left to figureout for yoruself what is what.

maybe it's NC-559-V2-TF
or
maybe it's NC-559-ASM-TF

Here is the link of what search has found:


TME search results





So, when you click on 30cc (ANC559TF/30) and when the page opens, you see that price is $23.81 (or 20.32 €). BUT when you click on the image itself, you see it sais: NC-559-AS


I also checked other two products that search gave (for 10cc volume)

One is:
ANC559V2/10 (currently 0 quantity in stock)
and
ANC559TF

When you open a page for 'ANC559V2/10' (which has 0 in stock) you see there is no picture of the product.
When you open a page for 'ANC559TF' and when the page loads, it sais "AMTECH NC-559-AS". Also the address bar link has 'nc-559-as' in the link, like:

Code: [Select]

[url]https://www.tme.eu/en/details/anc559tf/fluxes/amtech/nc-559-as/[/url]
Well, F*CK this!

======================

So, since I was confused, I sent another email as my reply to that nice lady from Amtech. I explained that russian site only distribute in russia, and that tme.eu doesn't have a tacky flux under name "NC-559-V2-TF". I told her that they only listed 'NC-559-TF' so I don't know if it is NC-559-ASM-TF or NC-559-V2-TF (which I'm looking for), and to make things even worse, once I click on the image I see the name of that image is 'NC-559-AS'.

So, she replied (since I already asked her about that) that Amtech do deal with private persons (not only with firms), and its not issue for them to send the product. The only requiremant is that the minimum order quantity for 10cc volume is 20 pcs, and for 30cc is 10 pcs.

Anyway, regarding my confusion at tme.pl (tme.eu) website, she said this: (now pay attention)

Thank you for your response.  First let me tell you that it is not a problem that you are a private person using our product and not associated with a company.  Please note that if you choose to order our tacky flux products, you will need to purchase the minimum order shipment quantity.  The minimum order shipment quantity for the NC-559-V2 10cc tacky flux syringes is 20.  The minimum order shipment quantity for the NC-559-V2 30cc tacky flux syringes is 10. Formulations cannot be combined to meet the minimum order shipment quantity.  You (the buyer) are responsible for all duties and taxes.

Second part of her reply was, what put some light on all this tacky flux naming mess:

The NC-559-V2 and NC-559-AS have the same formulation.  The NC-559-ASM has a slightly different formulation.
TME purchases the NC-559-AS TF from us which is the same formulation as the NC-559-V2.  Insat International purchases the NC-559-V2 TF from us.

So: NC-559-V2-TF = NC-559-AS-TF

^ both not listed on Amtech website ([url]http://www.inventecusa.com/amtech-data-sheets.html[/url]) even though Amtech do have such product and do sell them. Why they don't list them on their site, I have no clue.

Here is the link to 30cc volume at tme.eu website: [url]https://www.tme.eu/en/details/anc559tf_30/fluxes/amtech/[/url]


^image from tme page for 30cc tacky flux


And...

NC-559-ASM-TF 'has a slightly different formulation than NC-559-V2-TF (NC-559-AS-TF)


She also sent me few of their other european authorized distributors, so I'm sharing that here as well, so maybe we (the europeans) will finally have an easier way to buy it on our own continent


=========================================
Netherland

HDSA
Peeleik 15
5704AP Helmond
The Netherlands
Ph: 31.492430030
Fx: 31.492430032
eml: info [at] hdsa.nl

=========================================
Germany

JL Goslar
Im Schleeke 108
Goslar, D-38640
Germany
Ph: 49.53.21754221
Fx: 49.53.21754222
Web: [url=http://www.elsold.de]www.elsold.de[/url]

=========================================
Great Britain

Insat International
1A Gateway Mews, Ringway
Bounds Green
London, N112UT
[url=http://www.insatinternational.com]www.insatinternational.com[/url]

=========================================

^ for insatinternational.com, once you visit their site and click on the 'BGA Reworking tab' you get redirected to: [url]https://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/[/url] (thats the site others also noted as place where to buy original Amtech flux)


I hope this will also help other people from Europe while searching for Amtech authorized distributors. Thanks to polite lady from Amtech, now we have more information.

Well... to all who are living in EU, we have now the opportunity to buy NC-559-V2 TF from TME. I just got my 2 of 10ml from there. Very good stuf! Really recommend! Not to compare to NC-559-AS...

Regards!


https://www.tme.eu/en/details/anc559v2_10/fluxes/amtech/nc-559-v2/

[smile]

Bought NC-559-V2-TF from tme.eu (official distributor) I put it on copper sheet for 10 days.

However  it seems to be fake, on copper sheet in 10 days test.
Activated and not activated it turned green color.

It ate away copper without any problems. Images attached.

tme refunded my purchase. You can't trust anyone these days.

[smile]

I found NC-559-AS-TF from local store, did same test today. Lets see what happens in 10 days.

[Monkeh]

So you're complaining that leaving a massive pile of it on copper attacks the copper? Welcome to flux. That's not what no-clean means.

[exe]

However  it seems to be fake, on copper sheet in 10 days test.
Activated and not activated it turned green color.

How did you activate? I did the same test, without heating it is corrosive. After heating it is not corrosive. Test duration about 9 month (so far).

But! I don't understand the hype around this flux. It is very conductive and corrosive if not fully activated ==> imho not suitable for hand soldering. Most people don't even know about "activation" stuff. The flux is hard to obtain, part numbers are very confusing, datasheets are confusing and incomplete, their site is not updated, it needs to be cleaned, it can be absorbed by PCB, etc. There must be other fluxes with similar performance. It may be good it's "tacky", but the importance of flux for an average hobbyist is overrated. It's like a cargo cult, imho.

I just use cheap rosing fluxes (aforementioned TK83, rf800 and DIY rusin solution) and all is fine (I don't do BGA). The performance is not great, but I use mostly new and shiny parts, so job is done. I also have some pen flux from Kester. Performance not impressive, but also does the job. All real no-clean, full activation is not required, non conductive when dry (but I can check only up to 200MOhm), good smell . I don't have a habbit of putting too much flux, so residue and sticky stains is mostly not an issue.

[wraper]

Bought NC-559-V2-TF from tme.eu (official distributor) I put it on copper sheet for 10 days.

However  it seems to be fake, on copper sheet in 10 days test.
Activated and not activated it turned green color.

It ate away copper without any problems. Images attached.

tme refunded my purchase. You can't trust anyone these days.

What do you expect from non heated gel flux which does not even dry up by itself. it is supposed to clean the surface of copper, not leave it intact. The main thing you cannot trust is objectivity of your judgement.

[wraper]

But! I don't understand the hype around this flux.

Louis Rossmann I guess.

It is very conductive and corrosive if not fully activated ==> imho not suitable for hand soldering. Most people don't even know about "activation" stuff. The flux is hard to obtain, part numbers are very confusing, datasheets are confusing and incomplete, their site is not updated, it needs to be cleaned, it can be absorbed by PCB, etc. There must be other fluxes with similar performance. It may be good it's "tacky", but the importance of flux for an average hobbyist is overrated. It's like a cargo cult, imho.

Yep, don't use any amtech tacky flux for hand soldering unless will be washing PCBs in ultrasonic bath. IIRC Ersa flux cream and EDSYN flux gel do not significantly conduct without heating. Most of tacky fluxes do have resistance somewhere in megaohm range between nearby pads without going through reflow process.

[wraper]

I just remembered I had alpha OM-338 I bought at TME a while ago. It is non conductive and much cheaper than ERSA or EDSYN fluxes. What I noticed over the years, if a tacky flux is clear or semi transparent, most likely it is conductive. If it is white non transparent, most likely it's not conductive  .

[smile]

What about https://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/datasheets/Multifix_450-01_EN.pdf
Does it also needs cleaning ? The manufacturer says no it does not.

>"How did you activate? I did the same test, without heating it is corrosive. After heating it is not corrosive. Test duration about 9 month (so far)."

I heated it with hot air.

>"So you're complaining that leaving a massive pile of it on copper attacks the copper? Welcome to flux. That's not what no-clean means."

The "no-clean" aspect means that leaving this in place will not damage the board. Other flux types can typically be very corrosive, and over time may etch through tracks leaving the board non-operational. No-clean is useful in prototyping as it removes the need for cleaning, although for aesthetic or "I don't want this sticky stuff on my board" purposes, you may still want to.

[wraper]

What about https://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/datasheets/Multifix_450-01_EN.pdf
Does it also needs cleaning ? The manufacturer says no it does not.

That flux is conductive without reflow. Almost all of them are no clean. It does not mean you can hand solder and leave on PCB. They need to go through reflow process to be safely left without cleaning. It says low activation point. Dunno maybe hand soldering will be enough to make it non conductive under SMT parts but it's certainly is originally conductive as I checked in the past.

[smile]

Here is more info https://www.distrelec.lt/Web/Downloads/_t/ds/FluxGels_eng_tds.pdf

So true no clean is rosin with dissolved isopropyl alcohol only? But that is liquid, what about gel?

[wraper]

So true no clean is rosin with dissolved isopropyl alcohol only?

It does not have anything to do with being no clean. No clean means low residues which can be left on PCB after reflow. All non conductive fluxes I mentioned are synthetic. Non activated rosin is very weak flux, dilute it and it's basically useless.

[exe]

But that is liquid, what about gel?

There are rosin gels and pastes as well. Some are very cheap, like this one: https://www.tme.eu/en/details/pasta-l-35/fluxes/ag-termopasty/pasta-do-lutowania/ . I have that one and I don't like it, performance is below my expectations. On the other side, most fluxes and I have and use are quite weak. But I use them a lot because I can leave it on the board (useful when experimenting and prototyping).

[smile]

I take hard rosin, add isopropyl alcohol and get the same as you link. Works well.
I use it for soldering stranded wires, I also use rosin.

There is also RF/800, evaporates very quick causes no corrosion activated or not.
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/rf800_015/fluxes/ag-termopasty/rf800018/

AFAIK only hard rosin can be used for stranded wires, as you can't clean them under insulation etc.
If there are any better fluxes I would like to know.

There is GEL https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/topnik-zel_10/fliusas/ag-termopasty/
But it's RMA, so I think it will cause corrosion. CYNEL brand does.

[exe]

There is also RF/800, evaporates very quick causes no corrosion activated or not.
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/rf800_015/fluxes/ag-termopasty/rf800018/

I have it Used to be my main flux, but it is too weak. I use it for SMD.

AFAIK only hard rosin can be used for stranded wires, as you can't clean them under insulation etc.
If there are any better fluxes I would like to know.

Good question. I'm not aware of such flux. But the thing is, all fluxes are activated to some extend. Even hard rosin may have some additions, see https://www.tme.eu/gb/Document/b83d49f7e4fa753d03150418a2b88025/KalafoniaANG.pdf . But not of them corrosive (at room temperature). So, I think, different activation agents have different properties and not all of them are corrosive at room temperature. But that's just my guess. Unfortunately, most fluxes have poor datasheets not describing properties in details.

[pyroesp]

I'm using this CW8500 tacky flux : https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/Flux-Solder-Paste/CHEM-CW-8500/3/index.html?ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=112697&GROUPID=4132&artnr=CHEM+CW+8500&SEARCH=flux&trstct=pos_2
It's from reichelt so it's home in a couple of days after purchase.

Works pretty well IMO.