Author Topic: Good place to Start? (Read 10215 times)

tony3d · « **on:** September 12, 2013, 03:54:30 pm »

Hi, I'm pretty new here, and was just wondering where a good place to start learning electronics would be. Really just a hobbyist. In the past I have built a few kits including a Heath Hero one robot, but that was many years ago. I took two years in High School, and now that I'm 59, and have more time on my hands, I have this urge to jump back in. I am an audio enthusiast, and love tinkering around. I don't have the knowledge o build something from scratch, but would love to get there. I did buy a new Klein MM1000 multimeter, and I plan to buy a Velleman HPS 140i pocket scope. So now all I need is a good book, or maybe a breadboard education kit to get me going again. Any suggestions?

Rigby · « **Reply #1 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:20:35 pm »

The Art of Electronics is a really good book, but it can scare off newbies with its detailed explanations. Once you get to a point where you want to understand how things work in detail, this is a pretty great book, based on what I've read so far. 3rd edition is supposed to be coming out later this year. 2nd edition isn't in print anymore, but you can find it online in PDF form pretty easily.

There are some pretty decent books at a local Barnes & Noble when I visited one yesterday. I was surprised that there were so many to pick from.

Why a pocket scope? Good old analog CRT scopes can be had on eBay for great prices. I recently got a Tek 7633 for $80 and it works great. (100MHz, 4-channel.) If you have the budget, though, get what you think you'll need, but research first. Same for power supplies, and you'll need a few of those. More than one multimeter, too.

Get a soldering station, not a standalone iron; you'll want to be able to control the temperature.

Anyway, I've found that so far the best way for me to learn is to just start building simple stuff up. 555 timer circuits, and so on, then playing with component values to get a feel for how things work together. The best way you learn should heavily influence how you proceed with experimentation. If you learn by reading, find some books. If you learn best by tutorial, we can probably help a bit there. If you learn best by doing, then start doing.

tony3d · « **Reply #2 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:37:08 pm »

This seems to be a nice soldering station for $100.00.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=372-145
The reason I want a small pocket scope are two fold. Room on my bench will be very limited, and two I have several audio systems throughout my home that I would love to check the clipping point on. I looked at several pocket scopes, and I think I have settled on this one.
http://www.hps140.com

For one it is AC/DC coupled some actually are not if you can believe that. It gets pretty good reviews, and with the latest firmware upgrade, they seem to have knocked out all the bugs. What do you think for about $130.00? I know it's on;y single channel, but for my use I think that should be fine.

Hydrawerk · « **Reply #3 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:41:00 pm »

Most hobbyists begin with this LED blinker.

FJV · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:54:19 pm »

A good place to start would be to have a bit of fun.

A cheap multimeter

, a breadboard, and a few components.

Start making a few of these circuits and messing around with them and you
automatically pick up some knowledge while doing so.

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/200TrCcts/200TrCcts.html
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/200TrCcts/101-200TrCcts.html

After a while you'll find out the next steps more easily.

For instance combining several circuits:

Could you make a touch sensitive control, by using several of the "world's simplest circuit" in a row? (like swiping with finger)

rdl · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2013, 05:01:26 pm »

I would not buy that scope, but for you it may be just fine. Just keep in mind that you could get a small digital scope which is much more capable at about twice the price, while still not taking up much room on the bench. Something like the Rigol DS1052E is worth looking at.

I have two Hakko soldering stations, 937 and FX-888 very good bang for the buck. Not much risk buying one used, either.

Kremmen · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2013, 05:24:49 pm »

Others have already responded while i have slowly written this, but who cares, here is my suggestion:
Start by building simple circuits. It doesn't hurt if they are useful, but they should be fun and easy. That way you get early successes and will be motivated to continue with more challenging things.
A multimeter is a must, but that you have. To build anything properly you need a soldering iron and associated tools, like wire cutters and similar paraphernalia. The iron should be a reasonably good one but it doesn't have to be anything special. Isolated, grounded, temp controlled will do it. Replaceable tips too so you can switch those as needed. You just need a couple of different size chisel tips for starters - even one medium size will do initially. But steer away from the pencil tips - useless.
For some a scope would be a luxury, but it will let you do things that wouldn't be possible without. I won't comment on the Velleman because i don't know it. There is some discussion on this forum about those.

Ready made kits are sure bets but may leave something to be desired; i would perhaps start from a published schematic and try to implement it on solderable proto board. This will require you to design the layout and solder everything together. You will find that initially a simple 10 component circuit will be a small challenge to lay out nicely and get working right away. But entirely doable.

Regarding books, avoid heavy theory initially. Regardless of what some say. it is a surefire way to kill interest to start by cramming tomes of "useless" academic lore. There must be loads of there "...for dummies" type books emphasizing practical things and how to get things actually done. Once you have built some circuits and seen that they actually do what people say they do, there is all the time to find out _why_ they work. Life is short and the art long, as they say - you need to decide where to dig deeper and what to just skim over.

And, you will need some consumables. Patch wired in a few colors and gauges, sets of the most common resistor and cap sizes, as well as some transistors and suchlike. Don't aim for complete collection initially just build up as you go.
If you got the chance, dumpster diving is always a good way to get components cheaply. Say a lowly microwave oven, it is like a cow - there is practically all a man needs

You get wire, microswitches, a motor, magnets from the magnetron, lamps - all kinds of stuff. Also old printers are a small goldmine, especially if they happen to have a working power supply.

But the main thing is to set a goal that you know you can achieve with a bit of effort. Achieve it and set the next goal higher. Repeat until happy

(or dead from old age).

Markybhoy · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2013, 05:36:06 pm »

Im new to Electronics and picked up - Make Electronics by Charles Platt book.
It looks fun as its more of a project orientated book.

tony3d · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2013, 06:05:13 pm »

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies! What a caring community! I have a lot to consider. I'll tell you I really miss Heathkit. Their kits really explained what was going on, and what voltage drops to expect, and such. They made some really fine kits. I guess going all the way back to simple blinker circuits may not be a bad idea. As this is only going to be a hobby, and never anything else, I have to watch how much I spend. By trade I'm a computer 3D modeler/animator, so trying to convince my wife to spend a tone of money on test equipment probably won't be easy. I already bought the multimeter, and actually quite like it. It's a Klein MM1000. Got for $60.00! I understand the need for more than one, but right now I think investing in other stuff I will need right away is probably more important for me. I will have a look at these books, and projects. I know I can get more bang for the buck in a used scope, but size, and portability are more important for me than feature set. I think the HPS140i has about all the necessary features, and accuracy for building small projects. Somewhere down the line I can upgrade. I just really want to jump in.

Just recently I put together a really nice audio system for my computer. Got tired of there canned computer sound systems, and went looking for something fairly accurate sounding. I finally narrowed it down to these components, and think they represent a great value. The sound is actually very high quality with solid tight bass, and excellent attack speed. here are the components I used.
Audio Engine P4 passive monitors…..http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-P4 $220 a pair with saving code.
A Dayton Sub 800 8" subwoofer... http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-628 $89.00
A Topping Tripath amplifier rated at 25 watts per channel. I'm sure you can get a clean 15 watts or so per channel. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-310 $79.00.

Total cost shipped was $419.98! For the money this would not be out of place in a living room as a main listening system. What most impresses me is the little Topping Tripath amp. I mean this thing is really well made for $79.00! Very nicely laid out, and uses good quality components. I attached an image. Amazes me what $79.00 can buy today in audio. This thing really sounds great as well. It's mainly an amp on a chip with what looks like a lot of filtering, and support circuitry. The sound that you get from this really matches the sound of my Crown XTI 2000 power amp up to it's clipping point of course. The Crown outputs some 400 watts per channel! Most of the time though your really only listening to maybe 2-5 watts at normal levels, and there is where the difference is almost impossible to hear. Makes me laugh how some of these high end audiophiles look down on anything that doesn't cost at least $2500.00 bucks! And it's dead silent at full output to boot!

tony3d · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2013, 06:20:45 pm »

Quote from: Kremmen on September 12, 2013, 05:24:49 pm

Others have already responded while i have slowly written this, but who cares, here is my suggestion:
Start by building simple circuits. It doesn't hurt if they are useful, but they should be fun and easy. That way you get early successes and will be motivated to continue with more challenging things.
A multimeter is a must, but that you have. To build anything properly you need a soldering iron and associated tools, like wire cutters and similar paraphernalia. The iron should be a reasonably good one but it doesn't have to be anything special. Isolated, grounded, temp controlled will do it. Replaceable tips too so you can switch those as needed. You just need a couple of different size chisel tips for starters - even one medium size will do initially. But steer away from the pencil tips - useless.
For some a scope would be a luxury, but it will let you do things that wouldn't be possible without. I won't comment on the Velleman because i don't know it. There is some discussion on this forum about those.

Ready made kits are sure bets but may leave something to be desired; i would perhaps start from a published schematic and try to implement it on solderable proto board. This will require you to design the layout and solder everything together. You will find that initially a simple 10 component circuit will be a small challenge to lay out nicely and get working right away. But entirely doable.

Regarding books, avoid heavy theory initially. Regardless of what some say. it is a surefire way to kill interest to start by cramming tomes of "useless" academic lore. There must be loads of there "...for dummies" type books emphasizing practical things and how to get things actually done. Once you have built some circuits and seen that they actually do what people say they do, there is all the time to find out _why_ they work. Life is short and the art long, as they say - you need to decide where to dig deeper and what to just skim over.

And, you will need some consumables. Patch wired in a few colors and gauges, sets of the most common resistor and cap sizes, as well as some transistors and suchlike. Don't aim for complete collection initially just build up as you go.
If you got the chance, dumpster diving is always a good way to get components cheaply. Say a lowly microwave oven, it is like a cow - there is practically all a man needs You get wire, microswitches, a motor, magnets from the magnetron, lamps - all kinds of stuff. Also old printers are a small goldmine, especially if they happen to have a working power supply.

But the main thing is to set a goal that you know you can achieve with a bit of effort. Achieve it and set the next goal higher. Repeat until happy (or dead from old age).

All great advice. Thanks for the detailed advice! I will probably feel real stupid asking newbie questions though. Really what does it matter, I'll never actually see any of you guys.

Kremmen · « **Reply #10 on:** September 12, 2013, 07:08:00 pm »

S'aright, we don't mind n00b questions and couldn't care less (or know) if you feel stupid inside your own head. The only really stupid thing would be not to start because of something we all went through at some time. We were of course all n00bs once, except those who emerged into this world soldering iron first. Can't recall seeing many of them around.

tony3d · « **Reply #11 on:** September 12, 2013, 07:44:39 pm »

Quote from: Kremmen on September 12, 2013, 07:08:00 pm

S'aright, we don't mind n00b questions and couldn't care less (or know) if you feel stupid inside your own head. The only really stupid thing would be not to start because of something we all went through at some time. We were of course all n00bs once, except those who emerged into this world soldering iron first. Can't recall seeing many of them around.

LOL! All right then. I'm definitely going to give it a shot!

tony3d · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:26:48 pm »

Just found an app for the iPhone and iPad called icircuit. It looks interesting. Do you think it is worth the asking price of 10 dollars? It's basically a virtual lab for beginners I imagine.

Kremmen · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:43:59 pm »

At least first check the free LTSpice from Linear Tech , to be found at http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/. It is a quite popular implementation of the SPICE circuit emulator and will get you a long way. To be sure, it is PC software, not for a tablet or phone - but in my book that is an advantage, not a shortcoming.
A very common workflow in electronic design is to draft the circuit idea in you head / on paper until you have fixed it to something concrete. Then create a SPICE model and run various analyzes on the model, until you are satisfied that it works as intended. Then build a prototype and start pondering why it doesn't work at all like the simulation, and find the real world differences. This will teach you that simulation is not reality, and that there are effects the simulators are blind to, like the parasitic phenomena present in all real circuits. Sometimes they matter, sometimes not. This is condensed nicely in the statement of the difference between theory and practice: In theory, theory and practice are the same thing, but in practice that is not so.

The iCircuit seems not to have collected many rave reviews so you better make sure it can do what you think it does before parting with your money. I would just go with LTSpice which is a serious piece of software you won't quickly outgrow.

ahnuts72 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:44:24 pm »

It works pretty good I have it on my android but if your device isn't fast it will stutter and not run smooth when the scope on.

casinada · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2013, 09:06:50 pm »

Tony3d,
Please state in your settings what country are you from. Depending on where you live there are different options on where to get your hardware.
In the USA you can go to RadioShack and grab some parts if you can't wait for your online orders. They also have the Books from Forrest Mims III that are classic for all sorts of projects. I have no Idea what your background is but try to learn some basic theory starting from Ohms Law so you'll have an idea what happens when you connect a few resistors to a battery. You can always copy circuits that do neat things like the book mentioned above but if you don't understand why the circuit is working the way it does it will be hard for you to start creating your own. There are way too many sources of information on the web some of them are really great from basic electronic courses for novices to advanced courses offered by Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT. Some of them require basic knowledge of math and some require good solid foundation of calculus and Physics. There are many fields of interest as well, From digital circuits and microcontrollers to audio to RF to Microwaves, etc so pick your path and learn the basics. Good luck

Todd · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2013, 09:07:35 pm »

I second the recommendation of Make Electronics. It walks you through projects from very basic in the beginning to more advanced toward the end. There are also a couple component kits you can buy from Radio Shack or online from makershed.com. Those kits will save a lot of hassle by providing all the parts needed to do the projects.

ahnuts72 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2013, 09:12:14 pm »

Quote from: Kremmen on September 12, 2013, 08:43:59 pm

The iCircuit seems not to have collected many rave reviews so you better make sure it can do what you think it does before parting with your money. I would just go with LTSpice which is a serious piece of software you won't quickly outgrow.

I ran w2aew's ramp generator on it and it worked correctly all adjustments worked but it was not smooth at all.

tony3d · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2013, 10:42:26 pm »

Quote from: Todd on September 12, 2013, 09:07:35 pm

I second the recommendation of Make Electronics. It walks you through projects from very basic in the beginning to more advanced toward the end. There are also a couple component kits you can buy from Radio Shack or online from makershed.com. Those kits will save a lot of hassle by providing all the parts needed to do the projects.

Looked this book up, and it does look perfect! I'll try to pick it up this weekend! Thanks! Can't wait to get started!

tony3d · « **Reply #19 on:** September 13, 2013, 05:07:48 pm »

Found The Make Electronics Book, And Component packs 1, and 2 for $95.00 at Radio Shack! I have my Klein mm1000 multimeter, so I could be diving in this weekend, if I can find a store that has it all. The packs are not sold online.

tony3d · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2013, 08:22:12 pm »

Just as I thought no Radio Shack around me has these packs for the advertised 29.95 apiece. now they sell them for 129.99, and 109.99 apiece just like Maker shed. Thats expensive! I understand the bread board it comes with is pure junk as well.

Rigby · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2013, 08:32:27 pm »

If you're just after a pile of components to start playing around with, eBay can probably get you started. Also, there's "Joe Knows Electronics" on Amazon which sells pretty handy packs of resistors and caps.

Neither will help you get going this weekend, though.

tony3d · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2013, 08:37:27 pm »

Well, I will pick up the book this weekend, then go hunting down all the components. I hope the book at least lists everything out, and the quantities.

Abstr7ct · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2013, 08:46:08 pm »

There a lot of advices and directions on the internet and in this forum especially. Anyway, I would like to add a book that has a title of 'Practical Electronics For Inventors'. If you would like to have a book that takes you from the definition of electricity and electrons to a talk and sample examples of modular electronics and popular microcontrollers like Arduino, then this book would get you covered. The newest edition, which is the 3rd released early this year, can serve as an encyclopedia of electronics for students, hobbyists and trained engineers.

This book explains electronics in detail from mathematical, physical and practical perspectives. You would be simply overwhelmed with the book if you don't know what you want to learn/see when you open it at any time. It's a complete 900+ pages reference even for a beginner to get you started in understanding the physical and mathematical model of electricity and electronic components and it will take you in a nice ride to start building and testing circuits with hands-on electronics and applications.

tony3d · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2013, 08:53:43 pm »

Thanks, I'll have a look at this as well!

rdl · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2013, 09:59:46 pm »

Those component packs were on clearance at Radio Shack, that's why they were only $29.97. I don't think they were all that good of a deal even at the clearance price. You're probably better off just buying parts as you need them from somewhere like Mouser or Digi-Key, or even eBay.

If you decide to get a copy of "Practical Electronics For Inventors", be sure to avoid the second edition. That one is full of... um "errata" shall we say.

MacAttak · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2013, 10:18:14 pm »

I have iCircuit on my ipad and it is a fun thing to mess with while waiting my turn in a doctor's office waiting room I suppose. But it is very limited in what can be done - there are only a handful of circuit components that it allows you to use. And there is not a way to add your own - the vendor adds a few new ones a few times a year but that's it, and it isn't nearly enough.

But, it can be useful to help you get a handle on the basics. Of course LTSpice can do a lot more, but it isn't nearly as approachable (which is the one thing iCircuit has going for it).

I'll also add that I don't think you should be scared of the theory behind EE concepts. One of the recommendations I saw above suggested that you avoid it - but I've found that personally I prefer to know the theory first because then the real-world parts make more sense to me. To that end, I really liked the (free!!) educational material on allaboutcircuits.com. It is essentially an electronics textbook, online (you can also download each volume as a PDF for offline reading). It's got a few missing sections, but still it's pretty decent and you don't have to wait for shipping

To each his own though.

superUnknown · « **Reply #27 on:** September 14, 2013, 12:53:39 am »

I really enjoy the projects and THOROUGH tutorials available from Adafruit.com
If you start getting into microcontrollers check out Jeremy Blum's book and accompanying youtube vids; first rate!

Kremmen · « **Reply #28 on:** September 14, 2013, 05:37:41 am »

Quote from: MacAttak on September 13, 2013, 10:18:14 pm

[...]
I'll also add that I don't think you should be scared of the theory behind EE concepts. One of the recommendations I saw above suggested that you avoid it - but I've found that personally I prefer to know the theory first because then the real-world parts make more sense to me. To that end, I really liked the (free!!) educational material on allaboutcircuits.com. It is essentially an electronics textbook, online (you can also download each volume as a PDF for offline reading). It's got a few missing sections, but still it's pretty decent and you don't have to wait for shipping
[...]

In case you had my post in mind, let me be more specific: i didn't mean to avoid theory in the sense of not studying it at all. In that context i didn't really think things like the Ohm's law would count as "theory", more as practice. What i was thinking was, don't start with studies of say carrier propagation in semiconductors or circuit loop analysis or any similar "heavy" topics.
Elementary properties of components on the level of 'Make Electronics' seem to be about right, though. That will create a concept of how things work and it can be fleshed out over time and as needed. So in that sense i completely agree.

tony3d · « **Reply #29 on:** September 14, 2013, 03:56:12 pm »

Well, I settled on Make Electronics. All the book stores around my house were out of it, so I bought it for my iPad. Going out today to buy everything I need for chapters 1-5. Was wondering instead of using batteries if I should invest in a variable power supply? This seems decent for $20.00.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=120-536

What do you think?

firehopper · « **Reply #30 on:** September 14, 2013, 04:25:11 pm »

Quote from: rdl on September 12, 2013, 05:01:26 pm

I would not buy that scope, but for you it may be just fine. Just keep in mind that you could get a small digital scope which is much more capable at about twice the price, while still not taking up much room on the bench. Something like the Rigol DS1052E is worth looking at.

I have two Hakko soldering stations, 937 and FX-888 very good bang for the buck. Not much risk buying one used, either.

I got a Hantek dso5072 for only $270 + 10$ for express shipping, and it arrived in only 2.5 days off ebay

it dont take up a lot of room either.

tony3d · « **Reply #31 on:** September 15, 2013, 05:24:11 am »

So glad I bought Make Electronics. Great book!

robrenz · « **Reply #32 on:** September 15, 2013, 02:40:06 pm »

Buy "Practical Electronics for Inventors" 3rd edition only. Hands down the most usefull single book on general electronics and basic electrical. You will thank me after just browsing thru it.
Here is the table of contents (using the look inside feature on amazon) Just scroll down to see the table of contents.

tony3d · « **Reply #33 on:** September 15, 2013, 02:51:25 pm »

Yes, I was going to get that book after finishing all the projects in this one. Thanks.


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Author Topic: Good place to Start? (Read 10215 times)

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