Hakko FX951 or JBC CD-2BE?

[wraper]

RDS80 always was a low end station, don't know anything about that. I-CON is a completely different beast and is made in Germany. 102 series ersadur tips used by i-tool are most durable things on the market* You can do basically anything with them and they will withstand. In the worst case would need to buy a tip tinner and they will become like new. My oldest tips are 7 years old and are like new, I don't solder everyday, however 5000 joints per day a few times in a year do happen too.

*except PLCC blade which is awesome tip but easy to damage the coating on it's sharp point and it's internal copper will start to dissolve in solder. Therefore should be delicate to apply any mechanical stress on it. Basically you can make many thousands of solder joints, then accidentally apply the force to the sharp point bending it a bit, and it will dissolve in less than 500 solder joints.

[wraper]

Same with spare handles (60-70 EUR) or extra tools, with the exception being the Ersa handles that are 140 EUR and up.

Ersa handpiece include heating element. Heating element by itself costs about half of that. Also handle includes MCU and movement sensor. Temperature calibration is stored in the handle itself.

[Kuro]

Yes, the heating element is part of the handle, but it is also a part of every tip of JBC, so I'm not sure this makes the handles that much more expensive. I think the electronics like the accelerometer and calibration inside the handle are all what make it expensive. And from what I have read, they do occasionally fail. And I have not found a handle without heating element on the Ersa shop - if the handle fails, you could recover the working heating element, but that it seems is not an option. Still, I don't expect handles to fail every year or so.

I'm more worried about changing tips when the iron is hot - you have to shove the tip over the heating element with sensor at the top. Is that difficult? Any chance you damage the heating element?

[wraper]

Yes, the heating element is part of the handle, but it is also a part of every tip of JBC, so I'm not sure this makes the handles that much more expensive. I think the electronics like the accelerometer and calibration inside the handle are all what make it expensive. And from what I have read, they do occasionally fail. And I have not found a handle without heating element on the Ersa shop - if the handle fails, you could recover the working heating element, but that it seems is not an option. Still, I don't expect handles to fail every year or so.

I'm more worried about changing tips when the iron is hot - you have to shove the tip over the heating element with sensor at the top. Is that difficult? Any chance you damage the heating element?

I change the tips while it's hot, but I switch off the station for a short moment because otherwise heating element can start glowing red. Replacing the tip takes less than 10 seconds for me.

[wblock]

So I eliminated at least the Ersa Nano (too inconvenient in many ways) and the Hakko FX-951, not cheap enough, bloody annoying interface. That leaves the i-Con 2v and JBC CD-2BE. Both having their strenghts and weaknesses. Like zapta said, both will do. Maybe I should flip a coin 

Buy both from a good dealer and return the one you like less.  Then you would have a chance to actually compare them in use.

[GreyWoolfe]

Just to put a fly in the ointment, don't kick the 951 to the curb solely based on interface.  I mentioned in another thread that I almost never change the temp on mine.  I set the temp to 650F and basically leave it there.  I have chisels up to 3.2mm so I can put some heat down.  I very rarely solder bigger wires together so I haven't had to adjust the temp but once or twice.  When I bought my 951, I got extra tips and a sleeve for each one, but that was my choice, the tips come out of the sleeve/wand easily enough.

[wraper]

Just to put a fly in the ointment, don't kick the 951 to the curb solely based on interface.  I mentioned in another thread that I almost never change the temp on mine.  I set the temp to 650F and basically leave it there.  I have chisels up to 3.2mm so I can put some heat down.  I very rarely solder bigger wires together so I haven't had to adjust the temp but once or twice.  When I bought my 951, I got extra tips and a sleeve for each one, but that was my choice, the tips come out of the sleeve/wand easily enough.

In USA you can cope with bad interface because it has very good price/performance ratio. In Europe, Hakko price sucks, so there is little point buying one, even if the interface was good.

[Kuro]

In USA you can cope with bad interface because it has very good price/performance ratio. In Europe, Hakko price sucks, so there is little point buying one, even if the interface was good.

This. Unfortunately.

[GreyWoolfe]

Just to put a fly in the ointment, don't kick the 951 to the curb solely based on interface.  I mentioned in another thread that I almost never change the temp on mine.  I set the temp to 650F and basically leave it there.  I have chisels up to 3.2mm so I can put some heat down.  I very rarely solder bigger wires together so I haven't had to adjust the temp but once or twice.  When I bought my 951, I got extra tips and a sleeve for each one, but that was my choice, the tips come out of the sleeve/wand easily enough.

In USA you can cope with bad interface because it has very good price/performance ratio. In Europe, Hakko price sucks, so there is little point buying one, even if the interface was good.

And that really is a shame.  When I was looking, I did comparisons.  With the EEVBlog discount on TEquipment.net, I was all in with the 951, 5 tips, 4 sleeves and an extra brass curls for $286 USD.  The JBC was $170 USD more without any tips.  For me, that was a no brainer.  It really sucks that everyone over on the other side of the pond gets hammered on prices and then pays VAT or GST or whatever.  I am thankful to live here so I can actually afford some nice stuff.

[Kuro]

Ah, let's talk again after 11/8 

[TheBay]

I tried to use my FX-951 out in the field the other week, gas iron was broken (Cheap gas contamination),
so tried it on a inverter in my car, which although a decent model is a modified sine wave not a pure sine wave, however the FX-951 would not work properly!

The circuitry must rely on mains frequency for timing, it was constantly under reading and over reading and took me an age of faffing around to get the iron heated up

Although this is an unusual case, it made me think!, I will try my Weller WSD 80 on it this week out of curiosity.

[Kuro]

Well, still haven't made up my mind. I'm leaning towards the i-Con, but damn, those spare parts are expensive (handles, controller board...)! For the JBC, I can't even find spares online, and I'm not getting any e-mail reply from either Ersa or JBC on questions I asked as a consumer. I take it they don't give a damn about consumer clients. Not making up my mind yet made me look and read further, leading to more questions, sorry 

Anyway, looking around on the JBC site, I found this page: http://www.jbctools.com/blog/form/

I thought sleep time and temperature was user configurable on the CD-2BE, but this seems to suggest otherwise. Anyone reading this and owning or using such a station, please chime in!

Also, with support potentially an issue, what is the consensus on the reliability of these stations from Ersa and JBC? I found several threads here and elsewhere with people having defective stations or purchasing such stations off Ebay for parts. So it's not like they're indestructable    The question is, how often do they break down? The old Weller analog station my dad has is decades old, still runs. Can I expect the same life out of these modern stations?

Looking at Dave's teardown of his JBC and a user here on the forum doing the same to the Ersa, the rather large heatsinks on the Ersa controller board caught my eye. No such cooling on the JBC, are they using a different way of controlling the power? Or is the JBC power supply unit just allowed to run a bit hotter?

Edit: another interesting thing: I visited tons of German webshops, mostly geared towards pro customers. I'd have expected German brands to be top, but most actually have JBC or Metcal as their flagships, and a whole lot of them don't even offer Ersa. That is peculiar, not only because Ersa is German, but because it really isn't a small time player, they design and manufacture large soldering assembly line machines as well. So why don't they have the home team advantage? They even cost less than the JBCs. Profit margins for the dealers? Just that?

[wraper]

The only part I heard to fail in (old) I-CON is triac, which you can easily replace. Probably they use different triac model by this time, especially in updated "V" models.

[MarkM]

I've had the older JBC CD-1BB for 5+ years.  The station still works great and even the stock tips still work like new.  You can set the sleep temp, as I have mine at 90c.  That sucks about support not getting back to you.  I haven't had any issues with it, so I haven't had a reason to contact them.

As far as the FX951 goes, I don't see how they could really be compared, TBH.  The tips from what I remember are way over priced as well.  Everyone I've known with one replaced them with something better.  The JBC is in a different league, really.  I've spent around $10k on equipment over the years and I've been the happiest with CD-1BB. 

I would say the FM203(this was years ago) would be a better comparison.  My CD-1BB doesn't work with other attachments like the FM203. Might want to check on that.  That's the real drawback, IMHO.  I could really use some tweezers and a proper desoldering gun sometimes.  Eventually I'll upgrade.

[nanofrog]

Anyway, looking around on the JBC site, I found this page: http://www.jbctools.com/blog/form/

Download the manual (here), and see what's adjustable.  My guess is, the link is for unlocking it beyond the factory programmed adjustment ranges.

As per a lack of customer service (email reply), it may have to do with corporate routing it to the dealer who handles Belgium, and said dealer dropped the ball. I've had this happen at any rate. So you might want to pick up the phone instead. 

[eKretz]

I did the temp overshoot testing on the Ersa linked earlier. My i-Con 1 has been flawless since I've owned it. No issues whatsoever with tips, iron or base unit. Basically, you shouldn't need to worry about spare parts cost IMO. I think the JBC is great too, but I prefer the Ersa's small tip setup to the JBC's cartridge setup.

[nanofrog]

As per buying some spare tip retainers, keep in mind you don't need one per tip; 3 - 4 more should be sufficient for most, if not all, of your tip change needs per soldering session IME. 

FWIW, I do the same with the Weller versions for my WSP80 iron (total of 4; 3 in the stand ready to go w/ tips I expect I'll need & 1 on the iron). Does the trick, and it certainly saved a lot of funds.