Author Topic: HD pinout confusion  (Read 2116 times)

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Offline algorithmTopic starter

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HD pinout confusion
« on: January 30, 2017, 04:43:19 pm »
Trying to connect a 50 pin IDC to a 40 pin IDE.
Am I missing something or do some signals not translate directly?
I know databus would go to data, but Im confused about I/O, as well as BSY, MSG, REQ, SEL, RST, ATN, and C/D. also confused about the +/- pins.
Would I/O on the SCSI side go to IORDY, DIOR, or IOCS16?
Hopefully someone is familiar with these differences, I know this forum is full of brilliant minds so I figure this is the best place to ask.

Thank you
and I apologize for my lack of understanding. (in case this is a really stupid question)
(also I think I could get away with using single ended SCSI, instead of the differential pinout provided. but better safe than sorry.)

50 pin

Pin    Name    Dir    Description
01    GND    ---    Ground
02    GND    ---    Ground
03    +DB0    <->    +Data Bus 0
04    -DB0    <->    -Data Bus 0
05    +DB1    <->    +Data Bus 1
06    -DB1    <->    -Data Bus 1
07    +DB2    <->    +Data Bus 2
08    -DB2    <->    -Data Bus 2
09    +DB3    <->    +Data Bus 3
10    -DB3    <->    -Data Bus 3
11    +DB4    <->    +Data Bus 4
12    -DB4    <->    -Data Bus 4
13    +DB5    <->    +Data Bus 5
14    -DB5    <->    -Data Bus 5
15    +DB6    <->    +Data Bus 6
16    -DB6    <->    -Data Bus 6
17    +DB7    <->    +Data Bus 7
18    -DB7    <->    -Data Bus 7
19    +DBP    <->    +Data Bus Parity (odd Parity)
20    -DBP    <->    -Data Bus Parity (odd Parity)
21    DIFFSENS    ?    ???
22    GND    ---    Ground
23    res    -    Reserved
24    res    -    Reserved
25    TERMPWR    <->    Termination Power
26    TERMPWR    <->    Termination Power
27    res    -    Reserved
28    res    -    Reserved
29    +ATN    <--    +Attention
30    -ATN    <--    -Attention
31    GND    ---    Ground
32    GND    ---    Ground
33    +BSY    <->    +Bus is busy
34    -BSY    <->    -Bus is busy
35    +ACK    <--    +Acknowledge
36    -ACK    <--    -Acknowledge
37    +RST    <->    +Reset
38    -RST    <->    -Reset
39    +MSG    -->    +Message
40    -MSG    -->    -Message
41    +SEL    <->    +Select
42    -SEL    <->    -Select
43    +C/D    -->    +Control or Data
44    -C/D    -->    -Control or Data
45    +REQ    -->    +Request
46    -REQ    -->    -Request
47    +I/O    -->    +In/Out
48    -I/O    -->    -In/Out
49    GND    ---    Ground
50    GND    ---    Ground


40 pin

Pin    Name    Dir    Description
1    /RESET    -->    Reset
2    GND    ---    Ground
3    DD7    <->    Data 7
4    DD8    <->    Data 8
5    DD6    <->    Data 6
6    DD9    <->    Data 9
7    DD5    <->    Data 5
8    DD10    <->    Data 10
9    DD4    <->    Data 4
10    DD11    <->    Data 11
11    DD3    <->    Data 3
12    DD12    <->    Data 12
13    DD2    <->    Data 2
14    DD13    <->    Data 13
15    DD1    <->    Data 1
16    DD14    <->    Data 14
17    DD0    <->    Data 0
18    DD15    <->    Data 15
19    GND    ---    Ground
20    KEY    -    Key (Pin missing)
21    DMARQ    ?    DMA Request
22    GND    ---    Ground
23    /DIOW    -->    Write Strobe
24    GND    ---    Ground
25    /DIOR    -->    Read Strobe
26    GND    ---    Ground
27    IORDY    <--    I/O Ready
28    SPSYNC:CSEL    ?    Spindle Sync or Cable Select
29    /DMACK    ?    DMA Acknowledge
30    GND    ---    Ground
31    INTRQ    <--    Interrupt Request
32    /IOCS16    ?    IO ChipSelect 16
33    DA1    -->    Address 1
34    PDIAG    ?    Passed Diagnostics. Used for 80-pin cable detect.
35    DA0    -->    Address 0
36    DA2    -->    Address 2
37    /IDE_CS0    -->    (1F0-1F7)
38    /IDE_CS1    -->    (3F6-3F7)
39    /ACTIVE    -->    Led driver
40    GND    ---    Ground

thank you again  :)
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: HD pinout confusion
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 06:15:19 pm »
Forget about matching just signal names, there are much grander problems... IDE (ATA, serialized or not) uses an older Seagate ST506 (412?) command format and the terminations are single-ended. SCSI uses another data-rate and command structure and signals are typically paired differential. This is so much about apples and oranges, that this may be the only response you get.. sorry!
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: HD pinout confusion
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2017, 12:36:09 am »
Indeed, IDE and SCSI are wildly incompatible on multiple levels.

I suspect this might be an XY Problem. Can you tell us what problem you want to solve, since your proposed solution cannot and will not work?

(IDE to SCSI adapters for hard disks have existed in the past, for putting IDE disks in old workstations and Maca that only have SCSI. But they had the reputation for being finicky and unreliable.)
 
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Offline algorithmTopic starter

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Re: HD pinout confusion
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2017, 12:49:19 am »
well I have this old piece of hardware that works a lot like a SCSI adapter, except it uses 50 pin IDC internally. it originally had a mechanical drive in it, but the drive is beyond repair, so now I want to replace it with something, I have a 40 pin IDE CF card adapter that I would rather use in its place. so the 40 pin IDE is on a CF adapter, but I worried this would be the case. no need to apologize  ;) I appreciate the answers.

Im just trying to put something in its place so its not trash.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: HD pinout confusion
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 01:26:49 am »
Ok I'm confused here. IDE is Integrated Drive Electronics, aka the ATA interface, it originated as a hard drive with an integrated controller, the cable being a buffered extension of the 16 bit ISA bus itself uses a 40 pin connector.

IDC = Insulation Displacement Connector, these are typically used on ribbon cables to connect hard drives and such but have no relation to the actual interface standard.

SCSI = Small Computer Systems Interface, this appeared in the mid 80s evolving from the older SASI interface as a high performance bus for internal and external peripherals. It originally used a 50 pin connector and later evolved into faster standards that are more or less backward compatible.

In a nutshell, you absolutely cannot simply adapt one of these to another, they are completely different and even if you did electrically connect them they still wouldn't know how to talk. It's like trying to plug a PCI card into a NuBus slot, it just won't work. You do have a couple of options though, there are products like the SCSI2SD which emulate a SCSI hard drive and use a micro SD card for storage. Another option is to pick up a SCA hard drive and an adapter to go from SCA to 50 pin. These drives were commonly used in servers for quite a few years so they are still easily available. My favorite are the Seagate Savvio 2.5" drives because they're very quiet and consume less power than the 3.5" type which are mostly high speed 10k-15k RPM, they whine like a dentist drill.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: HD pinout confusion
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 02:19:28 am »
well I have this old piece of hardware that works a lot like a SCSI adapter, except it uses 50 pin IDC internally. it originally had a mechanical drive in it, but the drive is beyond repair, so now I want to replace it with something, I have a 40 pin IDE CF card adapter that I would rather use in its place. so the 40 pin IDE is on a CF adapter, but I worried this would be the case. no need to apologize  ;) I appreciate the answers.

Im just trying to put something in its place so its not trash.
Can you just name and document the thing, instead of giving us your vague description? Name, model number, manual, pictures... something concrete.
 


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