Hearing aid for father, in-ear electronics

[ocset]

Hello,
I wish to make a hearing aid for my old man.
Can i use this WBFK receiver?
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles/WBFK-30019-000/?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl9zo75uZO9NyA==

[tggzzz]

Commendable, but for many reasons you will probably fail to produce anything useful. The ear-brain combination is extremely non-linear in just about any dimension you consider. You need the circuit to work off a single zinc-air cell. Without limiting, you stand the chance of deafening him. And then there the ear mould to be made.

Fortunately in the UK there is a simple, cheap and extremely effective solution: get his GP to refer him to the nearest audiology department.

Benefits: expert unbiassed advice. Free batteries. Free replacements when, not if, they are damaged. Ditto upgrading.

[GreggD]

OK, but I found in USA, Cosco has pair(2) of highly customer rated aids for $1800 with super liberal return period. I have decided when the time comes (soon)  that is who I will use. Forget the 4,6,8 thousand brands.

[tggzzz]

OK, but I found in USA, Cosco has pair(2) of highly customer rated aids for $1800 with super liberal return period. I have decided when the time comes (soon)  that is who I will use. Forget the 4,6,8 thousand brands.

Everybody's hearing degradation is unique. Everybody's pinna and canal is unique. What works for one person probably won't work for another.

I know about this topic: I wear deafaids myself, and I grew up with a very deaf father.

(Sorry to hear(!) you live in the US.)

[cdev]

It is hard to believe this cost in 21st century USA.

I would definitely take n-acetylcysteine supplements. NAC is an amino acid and is otoprotective and there is decades of science behind it. Check out the link below and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=acetylcysteine+hearing

It wont restore lost hearing, but it may help slow down further loss if taken every day.

[cdev]

I live in the US and my viewing of the document appears to be blocked, could you make a screen shot of it and post it?

Hello,
I wish to make a hearing aid for my old man.
Can i use this WBFK receiver?
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles/WBFK-30019-000/?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl9zo75uZO9NyA==

So I was sort of interested in this issue after that happened and went looking for some more info on the issue.

The first article I found was the following American Journal of Public Health article from around a year ago summarizing the US's very serious affordability problem..

If somebody figured out how to mass produce a quality one size fits all hearing aid - that could be sold for no more than $200-300- that would help a lot of people.

--------


Opening the Market for Lower Cost Hearing Aids: Regulatory Change Can Improve the Health of Older Americans

Jan Blustein MD, PhD, and Barbara E. Weinstein PhD

Author affiliations, information, and correspondence details

Accepted: March 02, 2016
Published Online: May 06, 2016

Hearing loss is a leading cause of disability among older people. Yet only one in seven US adults who could benefit from a hearing aid uses one. This fraction has not increased over the past 30 years, nor have hearing aid prices dropped, despite trends of steady improvements and price reductions in the consumer electronics industry.

The President’s Council on Science and Technology has proposed changes in the regulation of hearing aids, including the creation of a “basic” low-cost over-the-counter category of devices.

We discuss the potential to reduce disability as well as to improve public health, stakeholder responses to the president’s council’s proposal, and public health efforts to further mitigate the burden of disability stemming from age-related hearing loss.

PDF:

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303176

----------------

Here are some more links..

Clin Interv Aging. 2017; 12: 859–871.
Published online 2017 May 18. doi:  10.2147/CIA.S135390
PMCID: PMC5441517

Applications of direct-to-consumer hearing devices for adults with hearing loss: a review

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5441517/




    Pilot Electroacoustic Analyses of a Sample of Direct-to-Consumer Amplification Products.
    [Otol Neurotol. 2017]
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28595255

    An electroacoustic analysis of over-the-counter hearing aids.
    Callaway SL, Punch JL.
    Am J Audiol. 2008 Jun; 17(1):14-24.
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18519576

    Over-the-Counter Hearing Aids: A Lost Decade for Change.
    [Biomed Res Int. 2015]
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26557701

    Review Current trends in treating hearing loss in elderly people: a review of the technology and treatment options - a mini-review.
    [Gerontology. 2010
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20090297

[Audioguru]

High frequency hearing loss is normal for older people. I went to a free hearing test and it showed that my high frequency loss is perfectly normal for my age but I did not know my hearing was that bad. I got expensive hearing aids because they were programmed to sound perfect and have some very nice features that normal hearing cannot do. Cheaper Costco hearing aids are old junk without all the modern features.

My hearing aids have the tiny speaker in the ear but the electronics, battery and microphones are over my ears in small housings. I was told that in-the-ear hearing aids fail soon due to moisture.

Here are graphs of normal hearing loss with age. People who had continuous loud noise have more hearing loss.

[ahbushnell]

I have "cheap" Costco hearing aids.  I think they are great.  They cost 1/4 what my Dad's cost.  They work good.  And Costco has great service.  They clean them for free.  They charge my Dad $200 to get his cleaned. 

[cdev]

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

[ocset]

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly....surely there is an offthe shelf hearing aid i can buy for a reasonable price....or even off the shelf integrated amplifiers etc that i can just solder together?...even if it has a tuning screw to tune the frequency?

[ocset]

(Sorry to hear(!) you live in the US.)

...well, i think USA is a great country, with great people....i am sorry have lived in the UK as it falls further toward the third world...here is my reason..
https://massey276.wixsite.com/ukelectronics

The datasheet is here , as you said you didnt have access?

[tggzzz]

High frequency hearing loss is normal for older people. I went to a free hearing test and it showed that my high frequency loss is perfectly normal for my age but I did not know my hearing was that bad. I got expensive hearing aids because they were programmed to sound perfect and have some very nice features that normal hearing cannot do. Cheaper Costco hearing aids are old junk without all the modern features.

My hearing aids have the tiny speaker in the ear but the electronics, battery and microphones are over my ears in small housings. I was told that in-the-ear hearing aids fail soon due to moisture.

Here are graphs of normal hearing loss with age. People who had continuous loud noise have more hearing loss.

That is the least of the non-linear effects. Consider that, even with "perfect" hearing, the frequency response curve significantly depends on the amplitude.

[tggzzz]

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

But "works well" depends on each individual. Each individual has to have each ear individually tested in a quiet room using specialist equipment. The testing takes at least half an hour, often longer.

It is easy to get invalid test results, and the assessor has to be trained in how to avoid problems and interpret the results.

Then the hearing aids have to be chosen (how?).

Earmoulds have to be taken and acrylic/silicone inserts manufactured.

Finally the hearing aids have to be fitted and tuned to the ear canal's shape, using equipment specific to the hearing aid. That also takes half an hour.

[tggzzz]

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly....surely there is an offthe shelf hearing aid i can buy for a reasonable price....or even off the shelf integrated amplifiers etc that i can just solder together?...even if it has a tuning screw to tune the frequency?

No. Full stop.

See my previous posting.

[tggzzz]

(Sorry to hear(!) you live in the US.)

...well, i think USA is a great country, with great people....i am sorry have lived in the UK as it falls further toward the third world...here is my reason..
https://massey276.wixsite.com/ukelectronics

The datasheet is here , as you said you didnt have access?

That is perilously close to politics.

I didn't need to read the datasheets, for the reasons I have given in previous posts.

[cdev]

I'm glad I live in the US and its a great country and we have largely good people.

If I didn't care I wouldn't complain. Sorry to have brought up politics.

[cdev]

Audioguru,

"Presbyacusis" - age related hearing loss, is "normal" but a common cause of it is increased oxidative stress as we age. So, some of the changes that cause hearing loss can be reduced or perhaps even prevented  it seems by taking an amino acid- n-acetylcysteine (NAC) which is the precursor of an important chemical in our bodies, glutathione, and to a lesser degree by many antioxidants and interventions that lower homocysteine. Vitamin C is an example of a vitamin that is likely to help.  Glycine, another amino acid, may also help in some people. (taken with NAC, the two together make gluathione)

See http://ajcn.nutrition.org/search?submit=yes&y=14&fulltext=acetylcysteine+hearing

But healthy people of any age shouldn't overdo it because, inflammation has a vital role in some kinds of body signalling.. For a reason..

For example, the inflammation that heavy exercise causes is what causes muscles to develop. So, somebody who was working out daily might not get the muscle gain they wanted if they were taking very large quantities of NAC because it would prevent some of the inflammation that in that particular setting, we needed, as it tells our bodies to make THOSE muscles grow. But the amounts that would have that effect (many grams a day) are much higher than the amount an older person might take (just a few 600-800 mg doses a day) to help prevent hearing loss.

High frequency hearing loss is normal for older people. I went to a free hearing test and it showed that my high frequency loss is perfectly normal for my age but I did not know my hearing was that bad.

[Dataforensics]

Regarding getting a hearing aid via NHS referral.
I did get a rather nice one that boosts the higher frequencies and masks my tinnitus as a result.
Problem was that from referral to getting the device took four years all told, mainly because they tried a bus load of different medications before agreeing to the hearing aid.
I would have bought one privately if I had known it to be effective, but only found out after it was fitted.

[tggzzz]

Regarding getting a hearing aid via NHS referral.
I did get a rather nice one that boosts the higher frequencies and masks my tinnitus as a result.
Problem was that from referral to getting the device took four years all told, mainly because they tried a bus load of different medications before agreeing to the hearing aid.
I would have bought one privately if I had known it to be effective, but only found out after it was fitted.

Knowing it to be effective is a key difficulty; the private sector's motivation is to make money; improving your health is a side effect. If you choose to go private, there is no guarantee that you will get anything better - my father tried and failed, and thereafter stuck with the NHS. Plus on the NHS you get free replacements when (not if) they fail, and only pay a nominal sum of you lose/damage one through carelessness. That's significant for a £2k-£10k investment!

Glad you have something, and it is difficult to say (without 20:20 hindsight) that the path was wrong.

[Audioguru]

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly....surely there is an offthe shelf hearing aid i can buy for a reasonable price....or even off the shelf integrated amplifiers etc that i can just solder together?...even if it has a tuning screw to tune the frequency?

My hearing aids have complex equalization that is tuned to perfectly match my high frequencies hearing loss. They play all sound frequencies, not just one frequency. They also have a compressor so that loud sounds are not louder and are not distorted. They also have front and back and left and right microphones to direct hearing to where the sounds come from. They also have a flat "music" mode, a bandpass "voice" mode, a "very sensitive" mode, a "muted" mode (mutes motorcycles or a dog barking) and an "automatic" mode that slowly cuts background noises if there is nobody talking nearby. The hearing aids are synchronized and programmed with Bluetooth. They use a digital feedback elimination circuit.

The speakers are very tiny but maybe earbuds can be used instead. The battery is tiny and lasts for 2 weeks but you can carry a huge heavy battery and replace it every day if you want to save some money (spend it on batteries instead). You can also carry a DIY amplifier in a lunchbox if you want.

[cdev]

The dynamics of scale would definitely apply to something that effects two thirds of all Americans. DSP technology is not rocket science.

Some of the things you said - can you explain more?

 front and rear microphones?

Are you talking about a hearing aid you bought, or one you sell/fit? Could you provide a bit more info?

Some "direct to consumer" hearing aids sold in the US are listed here..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4755807/table/T1/

 What do you think about their critiques?I think they are trying to say that US consumers should be able to get a wider choice given the falling prices of electronics generally.

As far as tuning, some of that could likely be performed by a "wizard" (part of the software) Some but perhaps not all. Since some hearing loss is likely caused by Rx drugs, a patients doctor should be in the loop - maybe a prescription some older person is taking might be aggravating their hearing loss?

Its complicated. To be honest, I think we need a public health care system in the US. Because hearing loss is a change that accelerates cognitive decline because of neural plasticity.

Given its importance to an older person being able to live independently, its very important to not drop the ball on hearing aid affordability when it comes to our older people.

Why are hearing aids so expensive?  $2000 or more is just nuts for what is essentially an audio amplifier.

They don't have to be super-miniaturized, really. just work well.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly....surely there is an offthe shelf hearing aid i can buy for a reasonable price....or even off the shelf integrated amplifiers etc that i can just solder together?...even if it has a tuning screw to tune the frequency?

My hearing aids have complex equalization that is tuned to perfectly match my high frequencies hearing loss. They play all sound frequencies, not just one frequency. They also have a compressor so that loud sounds are not louder and are not distorted. They also have front and back and left and right microphones to direct hearing to where the sounds come from. They also have a flat "music" mode, a bandpass "voice" mode, a "very sensitive" mode, a "muted" mode (mutes motorcycles or a dog barking) and an "automatic" mode that slowly cuts background noises if there is nobody talking nearby. The hearing aids are synchronized and programmed with Bluetooth. They use a digital feedback elimination circuit.

The speakers are very tiny but maybe earbuds can be used instead. The battery is tiny and lasts for 2 weeks but you can carry a huge heavy battery and replace it every day if you want to save some money (spend it on batteries instead). You can also carry a DIY amplifier in a lunchbox if you want.

[cdev]

 (presbyacusis)  effects nearly everybody later in life to some degree.

Do you remember the names of the drugs they gave you and what they were for? Were they for tinnitus?

Regarding getting a hearing aid via NHS referral.
I did get a rather nice one that boosts the higher frequencies and masks my tinnitus as a result.
Problem was that from referral to getting the device took four years all told, mainly because they tried a bus load of different medications before agreeing to the hearing aid.
I would have bought one privately if I had known it to be effective, but only found out after it was fitted.

[GreggD]

They also have magnetic receiver so that when a phone is placed to your ear they can turn off the microphone(s) receive magnetic (audio) and also send it to the other hearing aid so you hear it in both ears.
This also can receive audio from magnetic induction loops in say church other public places.

[tggzzz]

The dynamics of scale would definitely apply to something that effects two thirds of all Americans.

Correct; you already have economies of scale, albeit not as much economy as you would like.

DSP technology is not rocket science.

Wrong in this instance;

• the ear-brain combination is more complex than you image (consider that people have been refining simple regular audio compression algorithm for a quarter of a century)
• it must have frequency-dependent compression to avoid further damage to the cochlea
• it isn't trivial linear DSP, but highly configurable non-linear DSP
• it must run on 1.25V from a tiny zinc air battery (typically A13), the smaller the better
• the battery should last for at least a week

As far as tuning, some of that could likely be performed by a "wizard" (part of the software) Some but perhaps not all. Since some hearing loss is likely caused by Rx drugs, a patients doctor should be in the loop - maybe a prescription some older person is taking might be aggravating their hearing loss?

That's the "insert magic here" form of non-specification.

[cdev]

It seems to me that the combination of small size, sophisticated DSP and low power some of the cutting edge could be jettisoned to allow people to have a cheap high functioning hearing aid for less.

Most old people aren't trying to win beauty contests here. They don't need their hearing aids to be invisible, or even run off of hearing aid batteries (they could be rechargeable like my electric toothbrush is, which has used the same induction charged rechargeable handset and has been used at least twice a day, sometimes more, for at least five or six years)

They just need to work, and be cheap to use, power and fix..

The dynamics of scale would definitely apply to something that effects two thirds of all Americans.

Correct; you already have economies of scale, albeit not as much economy as you would like.

DSP technology is not rocket science.

Wrong in this instance;

• the ear-brain combination is more complex than you image (consider that people have been refining simple regular audio compression algorithm for a quarter of a century)
• it must have frequency-dependent compression to avoid further damage to the cochlea
• it isn't trivial linear DSP, but highly configurable non-linear DSP
• it must run on 1.25V from a tiny zinc air battery (typically A13), the smaller the better
• the battery should last for at least a week

As far as tuning, some of that could likely be performed by a "wizard" (part of the software) Some but perhaps not all. Since some hearing loss is likely caused by Rx drugs, a patients doctor should be in the loop - maybe a prescription some older person is taking might be aggravating their hearing loss?

That's the "insert magic here" form of non-specification.