Help buying my first digital multimeter

[karoru]

So you mean it's a pain in the ass for professionals?

Don't be discouraged, autoranging is awesome feature, just some realizations of it (especially in low-end meters) leave much to be desired;)

I agree; some autoranging meters are cripplingly slow.

It never stops to amaze me that my boat anchor's Datron 1061A autorange that uses relays for range-switching works faster than some modern DMMs;)

[Electro Detective]

Autorange becomes the ultimate PITA when I need to get into MIN-MAX or PEAK MIN-MAX modes,
which of course only works if you're in the correct range to begin with to catch those sudden changes, otherwise the display reads "OL" 
or "LOL" if it's a really 'smart' meter 

Anyone who has copped this min-max autorange experience in the middle of a job with their hands full, will know what I mean 

[P90]

An 'in circuit' ESR meter is a nice 'must have', but not if you're not familiar with just how easy it can be obliterated by a charged or sneaky recovering capacitor, or when surrounded by adjacent components. All ESR meters are not equal btw, some work well, some so so...

I am not a big fan of ESR meters.  For a given type of capacitor, ESR is roughly inversely proportional to capacitance so a little table or graph showing what the ESR should be is needed.  These meters work for detecting capacitors which are completely shot but I do not need an ESR meter to do that.

What I would find useful is a meter which measures dissipation of a capacitor in-circuit.  Dissipation varies over a much smaller range and does not depend on capacitance.  Datasheets list end of life dissipation although this is more of a guideline than a rule.

Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter.  And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time.  The difference is insignificant.

To be honest I can't stand that slow autoranging in 4000 count cheap multimeters, if I want to measure resistance I tend do just grab some oldie ICL7106 meter and dial in the range, goes much faster than either autorange starting from the beginning 5 times whilst fiddling with probes and me looking at decimal dot flying around, or me pressing "Range" button 10 times because I've overshoot to wrong range;)

I agree; some autoranging meters are cripplingly slow.  And I do not like cycling through the range button either; usually I pass the range I want at least once so I have to select the range twice.  I do not know if it is still the case but in the past, one of the distinguishing features of digital multimeters with autoranging was higher power consumption so lower battery life.

The last manual ranging meter I had was a Beckman Tech 310 and since that time, I got so used to autoranging meters that it was a pleasant surprise to use a manual ranging meter again when I picked up a pair of old Tektronix DM501 and DM502 bench multimeters.

I think I still have one of those Beckman meters somewhere, must be around 30 years old...

[rsjsouza]

Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.

I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.

Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).

 

[P90]

Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.

I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.

Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).

I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...

[David Hess]

I think I still have one of those Beckman meters somewhere, must be around 30 years old...

Mine died from being left in a hot car on the dashboard which caused the LCD to turn black.  It was still sort of visible so I gave it to someone in need of a multimeter and replaced it with one of the Beckman Circuitmate meters although I do not remember which one.

I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...

I prefer AA and AAA cells to 9 volt batteries but the leakage problem is real.  9 volt alkaline batteries are made up internally of 6 almost AAA size cells so in effect they are double packaged which helps contain any leakage.

[P90]

I think I still have one of those Beckman meters somewhere, must be around 30 years old...

Mine died from being left in a hot car on the dashboard which caused the LCD to turn black.  It was still sort of visible so I gave it to someone in need of a multimeter and replaced it with one of the Beckman Circuitmate meters although I do not remember which one.

I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...

I prefer AA and AAA cells to 9 volt batteries but the leakage problem is real.  9 volt alkaline batteries are made up internally of 6 almost AAA size cells so in effect they are double packaged which helps contain any leakage.

Left it in a hot car... that's like cruelty to meters... poor thing... lol
I've got a Wavekek (Beckman) rms225 circa mid 90's... don't recall the accuracy spec's, but it was a rugged meter, as were most of those Beckman multimeters...

[rsjsouza]

Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.

I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.

Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).

I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...

Leaking batteries is a manageable problem - just don't leave the meter alone for too much time with them inside. Having to pay for a single 9V battery the equivalent of 8x~12x the price of a pair of AA batteries is really painful.

[Sepehr]

I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.

Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).

Yes, I've seen in another topic where they related it to that DER EE. I don't know why? Why do people relate them? I know they are identical, but what does this mean? Does it mean it's a cheap copy or poorly made device?
The EEVblog multimeter itself would cost exactly the same as the HIOKI, but I'm not aware of shipping costs, etc.

[P90]

DER EE is Taiwanese company and makes great products.

[rsjsouza]

I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.

Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).

Yes, I've seen in another topic where they related it to that DER EE. I don't know why? Why do people relate them? I know they are identical, but what does this mean? Does it mean it's a cheap copy or poorly made device?
The EEVblog multimeter itself would cost exactly the same as the HIOKI, but I'm not aware of shipping costs, etc.

It is not uncommon that some companies agree to have a share of their product line being designed and manufactured by other companies in an ODM regime (Original Design Manufacturer).

In this particular case, having a similar product on the market indicates the design is not from Hioki but instead from DER EE.

What does that mean in practical terms? Well, in this case it means the highly known original company (Hioki) subcontracted a lesser known brand (DER EE) to manufacture this product for unknown reasons - it could be cost or it could be inexperience in the particular market entry-level segment or something completely different. That may mean a good or a bad thing (it is a bad thing in case of Extech, for example). However, as P90 mentioned and shown in several other threads around eevblog regarding other products, DER EE seems to be a very reputable company that manufactures good quality products. 

[X]

Your list is solid, but may not need all those items, so I have separated them based on your application, and annotated it. I have even added some items. Ensure you have at least the essentials. If your budget allows, the handy items will make your life a lot easier.

I do not know what you have access to in Iran so hopefully this helps:

Essentials
• Manual range selection.
• At least 2000-count, preferrably 4000 plus.
• High display updating and autoranging speed
• Basic DC volts accuracy of at least 0.5% Be sure the number of counts is also specified.
• It should have an AC or DC volts range of 200mV up to say, 1000V (NOT those designed for electricians)
• Ohms range of 200? up to 20M? Aim for at least 10mOhm resolution. Be aware of test lead resistance.
• Microamps and/or Milliamps Aim for at least 10uA resolution.
• Input impedance of at least 10M? It must be consistent throughout the ranges, (eg. should not
change from 10M in the 200mV range to 8M in the 2V range)
• A decent continuity test function (not delayed or scratched tone)
• Burden voltage 1mV/mA or 0.1 mV/?A You may get away with 10mV/mA or 10mV/A max.
• Capacitor test function would be nice (pF and nF) Try for at least 1000uF range as well. For low values, the capacitance added by the leads will change as you move the meter and leads, so be careful here.

Safety Essentials
• Minimum CAT-II rating of 500VAC/500VDC.
• Separate terminals like (A-mA ?A-COM-V?) not (V?mA)
• HRC fuses not glass fuses

Handy to have
• High-speed bargraph, updated many times faster than the numerical reading.
• REL function (Relative Measurement) If unavailable, mathematics may be good enough.
• Hold or Autohold function ± MIN MAX function
• It should have Autoranging feature and it'd be nice to have the feature of selecting between Manual and Autoranging
• Maximum test voltage of 4V for diode test Not strictly necessary, and can be achieved by discrete means if really necessary. Good to have a diode tester of at least 1.5V though.
• A reasonable and acceptable battery life Not a primary concern here, but be wary of anything lower than 100 hours.
• Like, glow-in-the-dark buttons, man.

As for the alkaleak scenario mentioned by several others, lithium cells may be the solution.

[David Hess]

Left it in a hot car... that's like cruelty to meters... poor thing... lol

It was my first digital multimeter so I plead inexperience.

I've got a Wavekek (Beckman) rms225 circa mid 90's... don't recall the accuracy spec's, but it was a rugged meter, as were most of those Beckman multimeters...

Based on the date codes, my RMS225 was produced in late 1990.  The feature I like the most about it that I miss in other multimeters is the banana socket arrangement where all of the inputs, volts-ohms, amps, and milliamps, support using a 3/4 inch banana plug to common.  This makes it easy to wire it into a circuit for continuous monitoring.

[rsjsouza]

I've got a Wavekek (Beckman) rms225 circa mid 90's... don't recall the accuracy spec's, but it was a rugged meter, as were most of those Beckman multimeters...

Based on the date codes, my RMS225 was produced in late 1990.  The feature I like the most about it that I miss in other multimeters is the banana socket arrangement where all of the inputs, volts-ohms, amps, and milliamps, support using a 3/4 inch banana plug to common.  This makes it easy to wire it into a circuit for continuous monitoring.

Funny you mentioned that. My UT136C has the same arrangement of inputs.

[stj]

banggood ships to iran.
how you get the money to them is another issue!

https://www.banggood.com/UNI-T-UT61E-Auto-Range-Modern-Digital-Multimeters-AC-DC-Meter-p-90124.html

[David Hess]

Funny you mentioned that. My UT136C has the same arrangement of inputs.

Like I posted earlier, B&K and Amprobe/Wavetek/Meterman also make some like that.  Unfortunately multimeters with this feature are all lower performance although not necessarily lower quality.

[karoru]

Fluke 101 as electrical meter

Anything indicating that electrons wanting to visit earth are present that one can stick to his or her wall socket/distribution box without a chance for it to be a low impedance:)

[Sepehr]

Isn't there trade restrictions still with Iran?

As the government subsidizes shipping in China a they are able to do free shipping on small parcels if they wish to a lot of western countries (US, Australia, Europe etc). It's a reciprocal agreement and our countries postal service bear a large slice of the cost.

Not sure about Iran though. But if it was easy to buy from China you would surely know about it by now you're practically neighbors.

I don't know, but it's very hard or expensive to buy something from foreign online shops for personal use as an average individual. 

For some countries maybe.  I'm sure you can get a UNI-T shipped off aliexpress?
(Yes, you will not likely find a UNI-T locally, and if you do not for a good price.  Even here in North America we get them from where they are made.)

We don't have an official access to financial companies like PayPal, MasterCard, etc so payments are a big turn down. However, it is possible to do online payments using MasterCard or other cards traded by private companies (gift cards I guess) but like other things I've said, they are absurdly priced and with no official support thus making me finally give up on shopping online from foreign websites. There are also many problems in shippings to a third world country in which I am... 

what about www.tme.eu ?

I guess I'd be better off not to shop online when there are the problems I said above.

Most of my Arduino stuff measurements here are done with a 2,74 bucks 830 dmm from aliexpress. It's a better one with the continuity buzzer and does the job most of the time. Not for work on mains, though.
I like the autorange of my ut 61e, when I check an unknown resistor as an example.

That's a promising thing to hear!
I see you're located in Germany, why don't you use those brilliant gems from Gossen Metrawatt?

So you mean it's a pain in the ass for professionals?

Don't be discouraged, autoranging is awesome feature, just some realizations of it (especially in low-end meters) leave much to be desired;)

Yes, I understand. Thank you.

Autorange becomes the ultimate PITA when I need to get into MIN-MAX or PEAK MIN-MAX modes,
which of course only works if you're in the correct range to begin with to catch those sudden changes, otherwise the display reads "OL" 
or "LOL" if it's a really 'smart' meter 

LOL

[...] However, as P90 mentioned and shown in several other threads around eevblog regarding other products, DER EE seems to be a very reputable company that manufactures good quality products.

Thanks a lot for your reply. You explained it very well. 

banggood ships to iran.
how you get the money to them is another issue!

https://www.banggood.com/UNI-T-UT61E-Auto-Range-Modern-Digital-Multimeters-AC-DC-Meter-p-90124.html

Thanks for the suggestion, but you guessed it right.
OK, guys. I think there would be no benefit in waiting at this point. I'm going to buy something as a starter, maybe I move on to better DMMs later whenever I find something on the market. 

I have to somehow make a choice from this list, I don't know about the reputation of the SANWA one among users, but I like to know your thoughts on which one you would prefer.

There are more items that I can buy, including Kyoritsu and Lutron and some models of the UNI-T and LINI-T, but I guess they are not good enough. Also, this list has been made mostly by looking up in the local online shops while I have had found some of the items in the local shops too.
SANWA CD771
GPS-176
VICTOR 88C
VICTOR 86D
HIOKI DT4212 (although this one is beyond my budget...)
HIOKI DT4211
Fluke 15B

Thanks in advance 

[Electro Detective]

If you can't get a decent feature packed performance meter like the EEVblog meter, I was about to suggest the Fluke 15B meter would be an excellent first meter,
but... according to the Fluke website   http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/inen/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-15B.htm?PID=56017

it seems you may have to be Indian to be able to use it!    Perhaps it has an Ethnicity Sensor sensor built in, and may not switch on ...?! 


" 15B DMMs
With the launch of 15B Digital Multimeters in India, Fluke offers features most often needed for troubleshooting most of day to day electrical and electronics problems.
The 15B DMM is specially designed for Indian technicians keeping in mind their requirements for quick and easy troubleshooting.

15B offers features like AC/DC voltage measurement along with functions like diode test, capacitance measurement and continuity detection. In addition to above.

Simple to use and large LCD display along with many other user friendly benefits makes the 15B DMM a true companion, no doubt they have become first choice of today’s maintenance and field engineers. 15B DMM is highly affordable and is easily available through a wide network of retail stockiest across India.
    "

Sorry I wasn't much help     

[Sepehr]

If you can't get a decent feature packed performance meter like the EEVblog meter, I was about to suggest the Fluke 15B meter would be an excellent first meter,
but... according to the Fluke website   http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/inen/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-15B.htm?PID=56017

it seems you may have to be Indian to be able to use it!    Perhaps it has an Ethnicity Sensor sensor built in, and may not switch on ...?! 


" 15B DMMs
With the launch of 15B Digital Multimeters in India, Fluke offers features most often needed for troubleshooting most of day to day electrical and electronics problems.
The 15B DMM is specially designed for Indian technicians keeping in mind their requirements for quick and easy troubleshooting.

15B offers features like AC/DC voltage measurement along with functions like diode test, capacitance measurement and continuity detection. In addition to above.

Simple to use and large LCD display along with many other user friendly benefits makes the 15B DMM a true companion, no doubt they have become first choice of today’s maintenance and field engineers. 15B DMM is highly affordable and is easily available through a wide network of retail stockiest across India.
    "

Sorry I wasn't much help     

I like your sense of humor!

[rsjsouza]

The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.

[Sepehr]

The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.

What's a battery tester? Does it measure its capacity?
Can't you test a battery by measuring its voltage?

[rstofer]

The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.

What's a battery tester? Does it measure its capacity?
Can't you test a battery by measuring its voltage?

Open circuit voltage is nice to know but it doesn't say anything about the internal resistance or very much about the state of charge.  A better test would be to place a rated load across the battery while measuring the voltage.  As that load would vary by battery type, a DMM might just put some nominal load on the battery.  Battery datasheets have information on rated discharge (and charge) currents.

[rsjsouza]

The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.

What's a battery tester? Does it measure its capacity?
Can't you test a battery by measuring its voltage?

Open circuit voltage is nice to know but it doesn't say anything about the internal resistance or very much about the state of charge.  A better test would be to place a rated load across the battery while measuring the voltage.  As that load would vary by battery type, a DMM might just put some nominal load on the battery.  Battery datasheets have information on rated discharge (and charge) currents.

As rstofer said, batteries sometimes have their internal resistance increased by a large factor - however, still negligible when compared to the DMM's input resistance of 10M ohms. The practical effect is that, when such battery is measured by the DMM, its voltage may be very close to the 1,5V of a new battery. The battery tester on the Samwa puts a 30ohm resistor in parallel with the DMM input, therefore simulating a scenario where the battery is in an active circuit. This helps evaluate if the internal resistance is high (the voltage reading is much lower) and if the battery has not much charge left (the voltage read decreases at a fast rate). Despite not being extremely accurate, as these factors depend of the size of the battery, this serves as a quick check.

[rstofer]

In a plant where I worked, we had a diesel generator that wouldn't start.  The open circuit battery voltage was fine but dropped immediately to 0v when the start button was pressed.  In this case, I was using a V-O-M so the motion of the needle was all I needed to see.  I didn't need a lot of digits of accuracy, all I wanted to see was the delta V.