Author Topic: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !  (Read 1429 times)

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Offline phantomTopic starter

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HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« on: June 28, 2018, 02:17:45 pm »
hi to all, i'm writing from italy, i hope you can understand my english

my big passion is rapairing mobile phone. to do that, i need hot air. i've had a lot of model, but after a long time, i'm still not so good in solder and desoldering.

so i would like to restart to the begin, and ask something about theory

firstwall, i would like to understand the connection between TEMP, AIRFLOW AND NOZZLE SIZE. for example:

when to use bigger nozzles and when smaller?

when to improve the airflow?

improving the airflow, am i'm improving also the temp? (even if i'm not changing it from the knob?)

i've read that the melting point of solder leaded , is 180 degrees, if lead free, like 220 degrees: is it correct? so why we use higher temperature (like 350-370?)

other question: i've bought the "vaunted" quick 861....but it seems much less powerfull than my atten ...why? how is it possible???

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY, AND SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH :(

 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 02:56:28 pm »
Interesting questions.. hopefully someone that knows (not me) will be along in a minute.

I'm very interested in this topic too as I have a problem with components blowing away in the wind!
 

Offline Peter63

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Offline phantomTopic starter

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 06:57:54 pm »
i have seen those llinks before, but they dont answer to my questions :(
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2018, 06:58:50 pm »
i have seen those llinks before, but they dont answer to my questions :(
Nor mine.  :)
 

Online IanB

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2018, 07:12:00 pm »
when to use bigger nozzles and when smaller?

I think smaller nozzles are to keep the heat concentrated where it's needed and to avoid over spill. Use a bigger nozzle if you need to heat a bigger part.

Quote
when to improve the airflow?

I think a bigger air flow will not help beyond a certain point. Once there is enough air, having more will just tend to blow components away or spill the heat over a wider area.

Quote
improving the airflow, am i'm improving also the temp? (even if i'm not changing it from the knob?)

Very little. Once there is enough air to heat the area you are aiming the nozzle at, having more air will not help.

Quote
i've read that the melting point of solder leaded , is 180 degrees, if lead free, like 220 degrees: is it correct? so why we use higher temperature (like 350-370?)

You need a temperature difference to transfer heat from the iron (or air) to the part being heated. If the iron or air is too cool it will take too long to heat the part because the heat flow will be too small. Remember as you add heat to the component to warm it up, at the same time the board will be conducting heat away and cooling it down. You need to add heat fast enough to keep up with the loss.
 
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Offline phantomTopic starter

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 07:23:37 am »
"fast enough"....how?!
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2018, 09:04:19 am »
when to use bigger nozzles and when smaller?
It's to sizing soldering iron tips, except instead of sizing it to the pad/hole size, you size the tip to the component size. So a small IC or passive will get a small nozzle, while a large part will get a biggler nozzle.

This is the heat the part quickly without cooking everything else around it. To further protect surrounding components, you can make shields/protectors from thin sheet metal such as cheap steel baking pan, food tins, soda cans, ... to surround the component you're trying to solder/remove.

when to improve the airflow?
You increase the airflow with part size. For example, the lowest setting isn't going to remove a BGA 352. So the airflow would need to be increased (no need to go crazy).

Too much airflow, and you're going to blow parts off of the board and overheat surrounding components as well. Takes some practice to get used to (scrap boards make for great practice), and it tends to differ between station models/makes.

improving the airflow, am i'm improving also the temp? (even if i'm not changing it from the knob?)
Shouldn't be by much if the station's temperature feedback loop is working correctly (station senses the temperature drop when you increase the airflow, and compensates by activating the heating element to bring it back to the set temp).

i've read that the melting point of solder leaded , is 180 degrees, if lead free, like 220 degrees: is it correct? so why we use higher temperature (like 350-370?)
As per melting points, it depends on the alloy. For example, 63/37 lead based is eutectic and has a melting point of 183C, while the non-eutectic 60/40 tin lead alloy melts at 188C.

The short answer for using the higher temperatures is so you can make the joint quickly (within a second or two).

This is because the moment you touch the tip to the joint, heat is immediately pulled into it (heat drawn away from the tip) to heat the PCB pad/hole, and in the presence of a ground plane, even more heat is pulled away. All the while still being able to melt the solder within a couple of seconds.

If you ran the station at the melting point, there wouldn't be sufficient heat to melt the solder. The station itself would sense the temperature drop and try and pour more heat into the joint, but even if it was eventually able to melt the solder, it would exceed 2 seconds which can cause damage to the PCB in the form of burnt PCB material and lifted pads/holes.

other question: i've bought the "vaunted" quick 861....but it seems much less powerfull than my atten ...why? how is it possible???
Are you sure it's a genuine Quick 861DW?

Seriously, there's another maker that's very close in appearance, and less knowledgeable or unscrupulous sellers are claiming/heavily insinuating it's a genuine Quick when it isn't.
  • PPD 861D Plus (at least this one has a maker's name on it, and it's NOT Quick)
  • No Name 861D (easier to fool less informed buyers)
BTW, these may claim 1000W, but they're not; more like ~580W, which is why a buyer would be scratching their heads when it doesn't perform as expected.

Take a good picture of what you have sitting on your bench to see what you bought for sure.

IF your unit is genuine, sounds like it needs to be calibrated (you need a DMM with a thermocouple function).
 

Offline Peter63

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Re: HI! SOME BEGINNER QUESTION ABOUT HOT AIR !
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2018, 10:48:34 am »
Some links…





Louis Rossmann LIVE board repair
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6nZlvfz4YWoBWbjiaYJA3g
 


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