Hello, newbie here.

[JenniferG]

Hello everyone, I didn't see a "Welcome Wagon" or "Introductions" sub-forum, so I figure this is a good place to introduce myself -- since I am a beginner.

My background is in Software Engineering, but I know a bit about digital electronics.  As a college project we built an 8 bit CPU with an 8 bit address space, simulated in LogicWorks -- this was back in 1994 wow.

I've played around with Arduino a bit (since I am a programmer I find the C programming language of the arduino quite approachable -- have written lots of C code among many other languages).  I made a MIDI controller with arduino and did a few other projects related to the digital realm -- simple.   Played around with some sensors reading data on the analog ports.

However, I've never sat down and built a circuit with things like transistors or op amps.  I am excited to get into this area.  [About the only thing I have built that isn't digital related are a couple linear power supplies.. one for DIY LM3886 home stereo amplifier and another for my old commodore 64.  I understand how transformers, rectifiers, filtering caps work at least.]

I like music and I play a few different instruments.  I've always liked synths, so that's the area I want to focus on.

Working on making my own modular DIY synthesizer.  I think I'll start with Thomas Henry's VCO-555.  But I want to first build very basic stuff, learning things, one baby step at a time.  I have no idea how the VCO-555 works as I look at the schematic now. Lots of op amps and the 55 timer.  Tons of resistors, caps & transistors.  So I just have to learn one thing at a time, starting with single transistor circuit or single op amp circuit etc.   Just bought Forrest's Op Amp Timer book -- maybe that'll teach me the basics.  Well there is also google & youtube and this forum which is nice

I just bought a used Fluke 8050A for like $30 shipped which is the version without the battery fortunately and the LCD works as well.  Hopefully the meter won't need calibrating.. should at least be better than all the $5 multimeters I have laying around the house.   Also bought an HP 6236B Triple Power Supply which I hear is great for making synth modules.

Better late than never I guess!

[MagicSmoker]

Those Forrest Mims books are classics and make handy quick-reference guides, but if you want a bit more explanation covering a much wider range of topics while still being approachable then I highly recommend forking over the dough for The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill.

Analog synths are fun stuff to build and try out. It's one of the few areas in electronics where doing things wrong can turn out alright

[cvriv]

Hey.

[JenniferG]

I highly recommend .. The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill.

Do you recommend the 2nd edition or 3rd edition? I just read someone's review of 3rd edition and said they didn't like that they removed the circuit building section at the end of each chapter.  He said that practice is as important as theory and that they shouldn't of removed it.

[rstofer]

Now there is a companion volume "Learning The Art Of Electronics" that deals with the lab exercises and gives a lot more explanation.  Highly recommended...  FWIW, DigiKey has bundled the parts kit (I don't know if it is 100%)

http://www.digikey.com/en/resources/edu/harvard-lab-kit

It seems kind of pricey for the hobbyist but if I was going to Harvard, I would have my parents buy it in a heartbeat.  Alas, I'm retired and if I want it, I'll have to pony up the bucks!  So far, I have resisted but sooner or later I will get more interested.

As to the VCO-555 circuit, look inside the 555 and see what it does.  Basically, it is a pair of voltage comparators connected to a set-reset flip flop and an output driver.  Here's a pretty good description.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC

Now you can look at the rest of the circuit and see how it manipulates the TRIG and THRESH inputs.

Oh, and welcome aboard!

[PartialDischarge]

I highly recommend .. The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill.

Do you recommend the 2nd edition or 3rd edition? I just read someone's review of 3rd edition and said they didn't like that they removed the circuit building section at the end of each chapter.  He said that practice is as important as theory and that they shouldn't of removed it.

The 3rd, totally, no question. Besides including sections on a variety on new topologies and components, explanations are better

[JenniferG]

What do you think about using a SPICE program to learn all these lab circuits in this Learning the Art of Electronics book?  I read something about LTSpice, but that is an older program.  Is it still considered the best free SPICE program?  Or are there better ones?  Or perhaps I should spent a little for a better SPICE program.  That's a lot of parts to buy if I do it physically.

[MagicSmoker]

I highly recommend .. The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill.

Do you recommend the 2nd edition or 3rd edition? I just read someone's review of 3rd edition and said they didn't like that they removed the circuit building section at the end of each chapter.  He said that practice is as important as theory and that they shouldn't of removed it.

Ah, yes, the "good and bad circuits" section at the end of each chapter in the 2nd edition was quite valuable, and did go missing in the 3rd edition. However, the 3rd edition has a lot more content and most of it seems to have been updated (I haven't read it cover to cover, though; I mostly use it as a reference).

Still, I would give the nod to the 3rd edition because clear yet comprehensive explanations of electronics are hard to come by while circuit ideas (bad and good) are a dime a dozen.

As for SPICE, I like/use Tina and LTSpice. Tina is better at general purpose simulation, is easy to learn/use, and not terribly expensive (I think there is a free version, but it might be crippled or specific to TI parts only?), while LTSpice is quite specialized at switchmode power supply simulation; it is also free, so that's definitely a plus. LTSpice is up to date, but it has a somewhat arcane user interface (sadly, that seems to be the case for all electronics-related programs), so not as easy to learn/use as Tina, but you can't argue with the price.

[JenniferG]

Thanks guys.  I just bought a used copy of Learning the Art of Electronics for $40 shipped.  It's in very good condition according to the seller.   I guess I'll be penciling in all the errata corrections as I go.

I guess this (along with the 3rd edition of Art of Electronics) should be how I get started into electronics?  Just read the book sequentially .. and do every lab sequentially?   Ignore all other electronic books until I get through this entire thing?  Maybe perhaps put off the synth projects until I'm done with this book?  I have a lot of time free time as I don't work.   Maybe after getting through the entirety of these two books I'll actually know something lol.

[iainwhite]

I recommend the Third edition but I also picked up a 2nd hand copy of the Second edition on ABEbooks as well.

If you decide to do the labs with real components, take a look at this thread where a member has posted Excel spreadsheets of all the parts and where to buy them.
There are also some comments in the thread about alternate parts to save money (particularly regarding the Linear Tech parts)

Good luck!

[ZeTeX]

I can recommend you allaboutcircuit. (https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/)
in the /education section, you can learn quite a lot.
Also there is a thread here somewhere about a lot of YouTube channels who teach electronics, check it out. 

[lordvader88]

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[rstofer]

What do you think about using a SPICE program to learn all these lab circuits in this Learning the Art of Electronics book?  I read something about LTSpice, but that is an older program.  Is it still considered the best free SPICE program?  Or are there better ones?  Or perhaps I should spent a little for a better SPICE program.  That's a lot of parts to buy if I do it physically.

LTspice XVII is the latest version and it's brand new!  I use it because it is free but TINA (TI version) has some neat features and it may also be free:
http://www.ti.com/tool/tina-TI  They used to want money...

I wouldn't spend any money for a simulator.  First, LTspice works very well and second, simulation isn't hardware.  It is possible to model assumed parasitics but you can never be absolutely certain that the model totally represents the hardware.  Somehow, jamming signals in one end and watching scope wiggles on the other end is a lot more satisfying.  And look at the range of h_FE for an ordinary transistor and you see where your amplifier gain can be all over the map.  See page 2 here:

http://web.mit.edu/6.101/www/reference/2N2222A.pdf


That is a lot of parts and we haven't even discussed your test equipment.  Ultimately, you get nowhere without a scope.  There is nothing that comes close to seeing the real life wiggles.  And then there is the signal generator and the digital IO or logic analyzer, and so on...  I going somewhere with this...

Consider the Analog Discovery from Digilent along with the much cheaper box of analog widgets.  This gadget, along with the BNC Adapter and 4 scope probes makes a dandy lab for just about anything at modest frequencies and voltages.  One of the cool gadgets is the network analyzer where you can stuff a sweeping signal into a filter or an amplifier and get back the amplitude and phase angle versus frequency.  Try that with a scope!  This tool is ideal for learning and it is ultra portable.  Doing Electronics at Starbucks!

http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-pro-bundle/

This setup will get you going and satisfy your needs for a very long time.  I like mine a lot!  But, yes, I have a bunch of other stuff as well.

[Len]

Seeing as how rare female sci/eng/techies are, I call FAAKE ??

Are you serious?  That's quite a misogynistic thing to say.

And just plain stupid too. Looking in my youtube feed, I see three electronics videos by women, just today.

[Len]

Working on making my own modular DIY synthesizer.  I think I'll start with Thomas Henry's VCO-555.

That's cool. I've thought about doing a synth project but never got around to it. I hope you'll keep us updated on your progress!

[IanB]

Working on making my own modular DIY synthesizer.  I think I'll start with Thomas Henry's VCO-555.  But I want to first build very basic stuff, learning things, one baby step at a time.  I have no idea how the VCO-555 works as I look at the schematic now. Lots of op amps and the 55 timer.  Tons of resistors, caps & transistors.  So I just have to learn one thing at a time, starting with single transistor circuit or single op amp circuit etc.   Just bought Forrest's Op Amp Timer book -- maybe that'll teach me the basics.  Well there is also google & youtube and this forum which is nice

One thing such circuits have in common with software is that seemingly complex things are made up of building blocks. Such a circuit full of transistors and stuff can be broken down into relatively fewer functional blocks each of which does a particular job. View a transistor as a line of code and a building block as a module or a class.

With time and experience you will learn how to see the building blocks even if they are not highlighted on the circuit diagram.

[iainwhite]

My first day here on this forum, and already starting to feel very uncomfortable.

I hope you stick with the forum, Jennifer.   The comment is not representative of the membership as a whole.

[JenniferG]

Anyways, I appreciate the advice I've been given about the Art of Electronics book.  I heard about this book before from the Muffwiggler forum, that it was particularly good.  Ordered it along with the "Learning the Art of Electronics" book.  I might end up buying all the components as well.   I suppose I could use many of them or sell them off to someone else at a discount after I am done with them (as a set) -- assuming I don't blow any of them up!

I hope you guys don't mind if I have a question from time to time as I do projects throughout the book.

[EEVblog]

My first day here on this forum, and already starting to feel very uncomfortable.

I hope you stick with the forum, Jennifer.   The comment is not representative of the membership as a whole.

Yes, sorry you got that remark Jenifer, it is certainly not representative of the forum. You won't get hassled here because of your gender I can assure you of that.
I have no hesitation at all in banning anyone who thinks it would be fun to do that. lordvader88 has been given a few days to cool off and learn a lesson.

[cvriv]

I've had at least one lady in each of my EE classes:) It's always a pleasure.

[Stuartambient]

I was just watching a new video today from Sparkfun.  It is an arduino based synth kit.  It actually sounds, at least from the video, pretty good. Check it out, it looks cool. 

[JenniferG]

One thing such circuits have in common with software is that seemingly complex things are made up of building blocks. Such a circuit full of transistors and stuff can be broken down into relatively fewer functional blocks each of which does a particular job. View a transistor as a line of code and a building block as a module or a class.

With time and experience you will learn how to see the building blocks even if they are not highlighted on the circuit diagram.

Thanks.   I guess I'll learn all about these building blocks from the Art of Electronics books (including the labs one).  I am very excited.  I have always been so very intimidated by analog electronics and just confused the heck out of me.  Glad I was recommended an approachable pair of books that can get me going in the right direction.  Maybe after I am done with them, I can whip through schematics and understand and enjoy the design decisions.

It's really nice to know a forum like this exists.   I've been watching eevblog videos on youtube for a while and didn't know about this forum until recently.  I really love his excitement in the videos and how well he explains things.  (Love his stereotypical large crocodile dundee knife when opening mailbag packages .. oh my .. ROFL.. excellent! -- He's so approachable and like the Steve Irwin of Electronics.)  Glad to have his videos, other youtube vids, this forum and google in general as I go through this book.

Electronics have always been something I've wanted to tackle since I was a child and interested in computers.  Always dabbled in them, but super basic stuff . [My first computer was a commodore 64, then an Amiga 1000, followed by Pinecom XT Clone lol -- didn't know about registers, binary, memory addressing and machine language programming until I was a freshmen in college believe it or not, as I wasn't brought up in the most encouraging household; e.g. father didn't even go to high school and disliked computers.]

[JenniferG]

I was just watching a new video today from Sparkfun.  It is an arduino based synth kit.  It actually sounds, at least from the video, pretty good. Check it out, it looks cool. 

Thanks   I have a couple of old Commodore 64 SID chips laying around here (along with a fully functioning C64 I use from time to time -- have a thing for my first puter I guess lol).   Would be cool to hook up the SID to an arduino and have the arduino receive MIDI data/notes and play them on the SID.  Have some pots for cut offs etc.  Also have CV/GATE control and perhaps integrate into a modular synth    This seems more apporachable to me since most of it is digital electronics vs. building my own analog VCO with a bunch of TL071 TL072 LM31700 op amp chips along with loads of resistors and caps

WOndering how I'd sync the clocks of the SID to the arduino.  I guess I'd have to build a custom arduino with a slower oscillating crystal?  One that matches the SID?

[rstofer]

WOndering how I'd sync the clocks of the SID to the arduino.  I guess I'd have to build a custom arduino with a slower oscillating crystal?  One that matches the SID?

You can get the SID clock from anywhere.  The bigger problem is the read and write cycle timing.  Yes, the cycles need to be synch'd with the clock and that will need to have some relationship to the Arduino but I didn't find an example with a quick Google search.  I did find some attempts to emulate the SID with an Arduino.  Perhaps a more exhaustive search.

What I did run across was an attempt to replicate the SID chip in an FPGA.  Now that's just code.  I don't know anything about Synths but when the topic drifts toward building things in an FPGA it gets me to thinking...

OR...  Why not just build the thing based on a real 6502?  At least so far as interfacing with the SID.  You can send MIDI commands to the 6502 and it can deal with the SID.  An Arduino could send the commands...  Alas, I know nothing about Synths so this may not be workable.  The 6502 never was a powerhouse.

http://www.jameco.com/z/6502-Major-Brands-MPU-R6500-CISC-8-Bit-1MHz-40-Pin-CDIP_43191.html

Many years ago I used these chips to build hard disk interfaces for the Apple II.  I used a cross-assembler running on my Altair, I believe.  Somewhere around '80 or so...

OR...  I might consider a CPLD (Complex Programmable Logic Device - like a mini-FPGA) to get in the middle between the Arduino and the SID.  The CPLD would take parallel input from the Arduino and write it to the SID with proper timing.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Hi Jennifer, welcome to the forum! 

I find this forum is very friendly and helpful to 'newbies' (whether male or female  ) and very informative as well (along with Dave's videos).

I too have a long time interest in electronics but have not had the time to really get into it, sadly.

But now that I've retired I can dedicate some more time (subject to constraints looking after my wife who has disabilities).

Hang in there - you will find it very rewarding.