Horrible solder job, buyer wants money back after butchering kit with his skill

[cthree]

This is why plumbers should never do electrical work

[c4757p]

Personally, I would rather send a polite and friendly email explaining the reasons it isn't working and pointing him to some good soldering tutorials. I might even send a replacement kit. If ever there is an opportunity to turn an unhappy customer into a happy one, it often pays to take it. This kind of thing doesn't happen every day and who knows, that kid may appreciate the advice, go away and learn how to solder and read a schematic, etc., then come back and be a regular paying customer who buys and builds every kit you produce!

QFT

[jancumps]

With this slight caveat that the adult person has put the kid's name and callsign on the internet and that the fallout is now picked up by others and is beyond either party's control.

[Flávio V]

This is a serious question now fellas, as I'm thinking to myself... How exactly DO you solder like that?

Whit something like this?

That tip is waaaaaaay too thin to create these great quality solders.

Maybe he used a CPU heatsink to solder.

[Simon123]

This is, what he used.
http://mmc.bolha.com/1/image/97052/99569/Star-spajkalnik_4f26f35e0438c.jpg
You put it into the fire and wait until it heats up.

[dr.diesel]

Personally, I would rather send a polite and friendly email explaining the reasons it isn't working and pointing him to some good soldering tutorials. I might even send a replacement kit. If ever there is an opportunity to turn an unhappy customer into a happy one, it often pays to take it. This kind of thing doesn't happen every day and who knows, that kid may appreciate the advice, go away and learn how to solder and read a schematic, etc., then come back and be a regular paying customer who buys and builds every kit you produce!

Agreed, but only for the guy that is honest and simply inexperienced.  The guy that directly lies to your face, totally dicks it up then disputes the charge with paypal deserves to be BURNED at the stake.

He also sent some BS FBI letter:

http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?p=1194

[Simon123]

Yea, looks like he used online no registration mailing service, so you cant trace his computer.
http://emkei.cz/
Beacuse FBI uses this ... :s

[GreyWoolfe]

8086, just in case you don't quite understand the definition of the word 'typical' I thought I would include it here:
typ·i·cal  (tp-kl)
adj.
1. Exhibiting the qualities, traits, or characteristics that identify a kind, class, group, or category: a typical suburban community.
2. Of or relating to a representative specimen; characteristic or distinctive.
3. Conforming to a type: a composition typical of the baroque period.
4. also typ·ic (-k) Of the nature of, constituting, or serving as a type; emblematic.
[Late Latin typiclis, from typicus, from Greek tupikos, from tupos, impression.]

When certain behavioral characteristics are observed in a large majority of any age dependent demographic as compared to not being observed in a small minority of said demographic, it can be inferred that those characteristics can be representative of that demographic (see number 2). I have friends and relatives all around the country in the various service industries who run into this same type of behavior of the same demographic that I previously mentioned.  All of us can spend hours taking clandestine videos for empirical validation but I doubt that any of us would risk going to jail to prove the point to you.

Also, those of us who do have a few years of life experience under our belts have learned to put filter systems and feedback loops in place so our brains are fully engaged before we open our mouths.  I thought much harsher words than those I typed but did not use because I thought before I typed.  I have generally noticed in life that the hurling of insults, ad hominem attacks and the spewing of vitriolic diatribe rarely make much ground in reasoned debate.  It's OK that you disagree with me.  I certainly have no issue with that.  However, your choice of language toward me is far worse than any I may have used and sort of validates what I said earlier about typical behavior.

I am glad to see that you take the proper business approach with your company.  I hope you are successful beyond your wildest dreams and make more money than you could ever spend.  I do think, however, that you may end up missing out on the true riches in life.

[headwes]

There's a thread on QRZ about this where the alleged buyer gets involved. First he claims "If you would love the honest truth, that's not my board!" followed by "It was a PayPal dispute that didn't favor the seller, and this entire oblivion erupted," and ends with "For everyone that cares, Dale is getting his money back partially."

[Bored@Work]

Personally, I would rather send a polite and friendly email explaining the reasons it isn't working and pointing him to some good soldering tutorials.

Why do you think that would work? Because the next complaint you get is that the buyer claims the kit was faulty, because an "expert" didn't manage to solder it properly. So there must be something wrong with the PCB or the parts in the kit.

[8086]

8086, just in case you don't quite understand the definition of the word 'typical' I thought I would include it here:
typ·i·cal  (tp-kl)
adj.
1. Exhibiting the qualities, traits, or characteristics that identify a kind, class, group, or category: a typical suburban community.
2. Of or relating to a representative specimen; characteristic or distinctive.
3. Conforming to a type: a composition typical of the baroque period.
4. also typ·ic (-k) Of the nature of, constituting, or serving as a type; emblematic.
[Late Latin typiclis, from typicus, from Greek tupikos, from tupos, impression.]

Oh, would you look at that. An old person being condescending to young people. How typical.

I guess I was born at exactly the wrong time to ever learn the meaning of words.

Needless to say, I know what 'typical' means.

When certain behavioral characteristics are observed in a large majority of any age dependent demographic as compared to not being observed in a small minority of said demographic, it can be inferred that those characteristics can be representative of that demographic (see number 2). I have friends and relatives all around the country in the various service industries who run into this same type of behavior of the same demographic that I previously mentioned.  All of us can spend hours taking clandestine videos for empirical validation but I doubt that any of us would risk going to jail to prove the point to you.

I daresay you could. If validation is what you crave, you will find it endlessly wherever you look, whatever your POV.

Also, those of us who do have a few years of life experience under our belts have learned to put filter systems and feedback loops in place so our brains are fully engaged before we open our mouths.  I thought much harsher words than those I typed but did not use because I thought before I typed.  I have generally noticed in life that the hurling of insults, ad hominem attacks and the spewing of vitriolic diatribe rarely make much ground in reasoned debate.  It's OK that you disagree with me.  I certainly have no issue with that.  However, your choice of language toward me is far worse than any I may have used and sort of validates what I said earlier about typical behavior.

I, too, have 'a few years' of life experience under my belt. I don't suppose you bothered to find out exactly which year Gen. Y began? Some of us are up to 35 years old now.

Believe it or not, bad language doesn't validate anything you choose to believe about us. Frankly, I find your bigotry far more offensive than any language, and even moreso than any language you would care to use if you felt comfortable to let loose on us without fear of reproach. I too thought about my post before I typed. I just felt it unnecessary to self censor when I was perfectly within the forum rules to post what I did post. I should point out that to a certain extent it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Clearly this was lost on you.

I am glad to see that you take the proper business approach with your company.  I hope you are successful beyond your wildest dreams and make more money than you could ever spend.  I do think, however, that you may end up missing out on the true riches in life.

You think this because? My language? Insults? Hilarious. I'm as rich as I could be in every way that matters.

I would say I may be richer than you in this sense, since I don't actually hate any particular group of people based on their age and exaggerated stereotypes not representative of the majority of those in said group.

[c4757p]

8086.... you're starting to sound a bit like the soldering bazooka dude on this thread:

There's a thread on QRZ about this where the alleged buyer gets involved. First he claims "If you would love the honest truth, that's not my board!" followed by "It was a PayPal dispute that didn't favor the seller, and this entire oblivion erupted," and ends with "For everyone that cares, Dale is getting his money back partially."

 

[8086]

8086.... you're starting to sound a bit like the soldering bazooka dude on this thread:

There's a thread on QRZ about this where the alleged buyer gets involved. First he claims "If you would love the honest truth, that's not my board!" followed by "It was a PayPal dispute that didn't favor the seller, and this entire oblivion erupted," and ends with "For everyone that cares, Dale is getting his money back partially."

 

Well, that's okay. I think I'm justified in what I said. I don't intend to go on forever about it.

I just don't like to think that bigots will not be challenged. If I have to do it, I will.

[GreyWoolfe]

c4757p, don't waste your breath.  If he wants to feel justified in his choice of language, he can.   If he wants to call me a bigot and a hater, he can do that too, it's OK, it doesn't bother me.  I am long past the point in my life that I truly care what other people think of me.  I know my heart and the motives within.  It also seems to me that those who are quick to call others haters and bigots are usually the biggest haters and bigots themselves.  Just read the newspapers and watch the news, it's all there.  The wonderful thing is that we here have the freedom to say whatever we want to say without being repressed by a dictatorial government that monitors the internet and restricts freedom of speech in any form.  Anything else that follows, is, to quote MacBeth, "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  8086, have a great day.

[SLJ]

Well, this is one more reason to design stuff with SMD components.

I have my SMD iron all ready.  Burning the garage as we speak to heat it up...

[Tac Eht Xilef]

Don't want to prolong the argument, but it's worth understanding that "Piss off..." in UK or Aus english is usually meant and interpreted as being on the same level as the sarcastic "Have a nice day!" in the US north-east, "Well, bless your heart!" in the south, or "Hey, dumbass!" in the south-west...

[Monkeh]

The wonderful thing is that we here have the freedom to say whatever we want to say without being repressed by a dictatorial government that monitors the internet and restricts freedom of speech in any form.

Wait.. that IS a US flag in your profile, isn't it?

[codeboy2k]

8086.... you're starting to sound a bit like the soldering bazooka dude on this thread:

  soldering bazooka... when you said that I got a picture in my mind of a bazooka launching a hot ball of solder...
Now I want to build it and actually make a youtube video launching a 4-inch round ball of hot solder at the backside of a PCB from 10 feet.
Need to heat the ball enough to overcome the cooling effect of 10 feet of wind LOL

Maybe I'll leave it to photonic induction or someone else with a rail gun

the patented bazooka flow soldering method.

[Stonent]

Holy shit. Forget any jokes I may have made about soldering using a "soldering shovel",

 

[GreyWoolfe]

Yes, monkeh, that IS an American flag.  I suppose that I am one of those obnoxious Americans that the rest of the world talks about  . 

Codeboy2K, I would think that if you built a potato gun that could be pressurized to 150 PSI (pounds per square inch not the greek letter ), the speed that the ball of solder would come out would probably mitigate the cooling effect across 10 feet.  I don't think we have to get as exotic as a rail gun.  I know a ham that has one and he shot a tennis ball into the air that was filled with sand and it was almost out of sight in a blink of an eye.  Thankfully, he fired it at a bit of an angle so it wouldn't come back down on us.

SLJ, don't forget the backpack blower to fan the flames

Tac Eht Xilef, I guess that since I was born in the north east and now live in the south, a like response would be "Have a nice day, bless your heart." 

Forgive the way I did this but I guess I am too much of a dumbass American to figure out how to put quotes from others into my post

[Monkeh]

Yes, monkeh, that IS an American flag.  I suppose that I am one of those obnoxious Americans that the rest of the world talks about  . 

Well, I see the education camps^W^W schools taught you well..

[Corporate666]

This is a serious question now fellas, as I'm thinking to myself... How exactly DO you solder like that?

Easy! By trying to do it right without actually knowing what you're doing. Like a multiple choice test completely unprepared. Statistically, you'll probably do better with a 5 digit random number generator than trying to "guess" what the right answer is.

But all beating up on the kid aside, If I were to offer up a kit I would make it completely clear that
1. there would be no returns under any circumstances
2. any "missing parts" need to be itemized and only those will be replaced.
3. any problems with an order must be filed within something like 10 day otherwise the product will be considered to have arrived satisfactorily.
4. you get something on the order of 4 support calls and 10 emails. Afterwards you will be charged per incident.
5. THERE WILL BE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THE ABOVE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

Sure some people might call you a dick but I would think that would solve 99.9% of any issues that might come up with selling kits online.

That's great and all, but doesn't work....

Person is unhappy... person does a dispute with PayPal.  You say to PayPal "but this person agreed to my terms and conditions when they placed the order, they look!".

PayPal says "Yeah, and YOU agreed to OUR terms and conditions when YOU agreed to accept PayPal payments, LOOK" (and they show you where you agree to accept disputes, etc, etc, etc).  Then they open an investigation and blah blah blah.  Ultimately the guy says it doesn't work, you say he broke it, he says you sent him shoddy crap.  Whether you win or lose, you get charged $25 for your trouble.

Now if it was a credit card, it's the same deal.

You do not have the right to remove the ability for a cardholder (or PayPal'er) to dispute a payment to you - and regardless of what your terms and conditions say, they are trumped by the PayPal or credit card terms and conditions - that is written right into their T&C's

Sort of like how contracts can't trump the law.  If you own a parking lot, I can put up a sign saying I am not responsible for any damage to cars in my lot.  I can even make you sign something saying you agree I am not responsible for any damage to your car... and if you are at work and I crash into your car with another car I am parking......I am responsible for the damage to your car. 

[G7PSK]

This is a serious question now fellas, as I'm thinking to myself... How exactly DO you solder like that?

Whit something like this?

I learnt to solder with one of those  in the early 70's it is possible to make just as good a joint as with a modern temp controlled iron, I even had one I adapted for very fine work by drilling a hole in it and fitting a small copper rod, I still have a number of those irons and blow lamps now, never use them these days but if ever the power goes down for days while all others are panicking I can still be building stuff.

[amyk]

I'd still not name and shame him. That's a bridge too far for me.
No issue with the story and the pictures. But when you're in a commercial dispute , publishing the name on the web is not the way to go.

This is counterproductive. Say it was his fault, ignore any further complaints, done.

[Noize]

The story develops. Complaining about identifying him as shown in this pic of the link in the first post.