Author Topic: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle  (Read 35830 times)

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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2018, 06:57:49 pm »
Bollocks. That's the American approach to breakers and that is not how they are rated in the rest of the world. A 16A breaker carries 16A continuous. A 32A plug handles 32A continuous. Those are not deratings, they are ratings.
According to the horses' mouth (the HPE document I cited) it is DERATED because of the NEMA connector capacity, not the capacity of the site wiring or circuit breaker rating.
 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2018, 06:59:06 pm »
Bollocks. That's the American approach to breakers and that is not how they are rated in the rest of the world. A 16A breaker carries 16A continuous. A 32A plug handles 32A continuous. Those are not deratings, they are ratings.
According to the horses' mouth (the HPE document I cited) it is DERATED because of the NEMA connector capacity, not the capacity of the site wiring or circuit breaker rating.

That particular derating I can't speak to. I would rather not need to remove and incinerate my eyes after looking at NEMA connectors further.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2018, 07:01:36 pm »

I'd void warranty if I replaced the plug. 
I very much doubt that this is true.
If the device is not useable without the original plug, it is not "fit for purpose".
Don't just assume things, check with both the manufacturer & your local laws re warranty.
See, here, you're assuming that I'm assuming things.   There is a sticker that breaks if the PDU is opened, and the sticker says WARRANTY VOID IF STICKER IS REMOVED.   I believe there's a screw under that sticker, although I haven't checked.   I'm pretty sure that sticker also means if it's been poked through with a screwdriver to tear the unit apart.   Think about it.   We have a lot of current here.   Would you want to warrant a device like that if people tore it open and changed things around?   Probably not.   I know I wouldn't.
Quote
The pics I uploaded have the L1 and Earth symbol (G), but doesn't list N.   This equipment cannot run off 120VAC by itself.   It's not one of those 120V or 240V.   It requires 200VAC - 240VAC to operate.   It's just a Power Distribution Unit for a server rack.   A horizontal, metered one, made by Hewlett Packard Enterprise (or at least they outsourced someone to make it for them).

In the past, many US manufacturers made equipment for 240volt service.
Amateur radio linear amplifiers are, most often designed for 240v supplies, as it is difficult to source enough
power from the 120v Mains.

All the older, (pre-SMPS) US made stuff used in 240v countries used either of two approaches:-
Two transformer primaries which could be used in parallel for 120v, or, in series for 240v.

In both cases, the 240v wiring was built to US standards for their "split phase" 240v system, & normally used a DPST switch &  fuses in both sides (hot & hot for the US system, & hence hot & neutral for, for instance, the Australian one)
Fusing the Neutral is technically against the rules in Oz, but there were plenty of  US sourced units used in this country which did this.

Australian or European equipment will operate quite happily in the USA, in that it is designed so that both sides are regarded as "hot" (that way, if your power socket is wired with A & N reversed, insulation ratings are maintained).

One trap, is that non US standard 240v stuff may not have a DPST switch, & will, almost certainly, only fuse the Active side of the Mains.

If your device is from HP, it probably does conform with US standards.
[/quote]

Thank you for that information there.   Like I just recently said in a previous post (that you couldn't have read before writing this), HPE does list this PDU as being International, not European, and claim that it _can_ be used in the US, so I think you're right there and it does conform with US standards.    I think that's why I have the external grounding screw.   The installation documents says it might not be used in some circumstances (they word it a bit differently, like if your situation requires the use of an external ground, run a 10 gauge grounding wire from the screw to your rack, something like that)
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2018, 07:03:03 pm »

I'd void warranty if I replaced the plug. 
I very much doubt that this is true.
If the device is not useable without the original plug, it is not "fit for purpose".
Don't just assume things, check with both the manufacturer & your local laws re warranty.
See, here, you're assuming that I'm assuming things.   There is a sticker that breaks if the PDU is opened, and the sticker says WARRANTY VOID IF STICKER IS REMOVED.   I believe there's a screw under that sticker, although I haven't checked.   I'm pretty sure that sticker also means if it's been poked through with a screwdriver to tear the unit apart.   Think about it.   We have a lot of current here.   Would you want to warrant a device like that if people tore it open and changed things around?   Probably not.   I know I wouldn't.

You don't have to take that sticker off or open the unit to change the plug. You just remove the plug from the cable.

But again, this isn't really a suitable device for a split-phase installation.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2018, 07:14:07 pm »
I have been following this thread since I posted and there is a lot of confusion that would be a lot clearer if you just posted exactly what it is that you are trying to power. If you don’t have it yet, post some links. 
I believe that all of the IEC 60309 plugs can be easily taken apart and removed from the power cord and reinstalled if necessary without anyone being the wiser.
It is good that you bought the 40 amp two pole breaker and are going to wire it with 8ga wire.  Most 120/240 volt breakers are only rated for continuous loads of 80% of their advertised rating.
If the device has sub breakers that are single pole, perhaps they can be changed to two pole.  Or post some pictures here with details and we may be able to help make it compliant in intent if not with actual approved breakers and wiring techniques. 
Is this going to be in some location that needs to be UL listed?  If so you are in for a rough and expensive time; I’ve been there.

I've posted this multiple times, what unit I'm dealing with.   You might have missed it.   I posted it early on and then again when someone referred to it as a mystery device.   It's the HPE P9S16A, which is a HPE G2 Switched 7.3kVA/60309 3-wire 32A/230V Outlets (12) C13 (4) C19/2U Horizontal INTL PDU.   Here is a link, I hope this helps https://www.hpe.com/au/en/product-catalog/servers/power-distribution-units/pip.specifications.power-distribution-units.1009830086.html

I generally don't like posting links, because that link will probably be dead in a few years, if that.

This PDU is in my rack, currently, just not wired up.   My server rack.   I mentioned that because PDU can refer to multiple things and I didn't want any confusions.   I've always been a system programmer, but I started switching carriers maybe a decade ago.   I got into repair.   Over time, I started learning a lot about hardware and DC.   I did a lot of reading, and now I've made a circuit board.   We have started an official company.   We're still in the process and have to fill out a DBA once our Articles finish running in the news paper.   We've invested a lot of money on hardware, software, upgrading the electrical panel in the house, etc.   We are currently going to run the business out of our house.

I posted pics of the plug, but for some reason, they didn't seem to get uploaded, I can try again.    Replacing the plug itself puts us in the same predicament that we're in now.   That plug only has three pins, therefore, it only has three wires inside running to those three pins.

It's not like I can just through a NEMA twist-and-lock plug on there and wire it up properly.   The wire itself would be what would limit us.   So, the only way to really properly put a NEMA twist-and-lock plug on it or something similar, would be to tear the unit apart and see how they have the actual cable wired up, and see if I can wire it differently, where it accepts two 120VAC's, but from reading everyone's responses, it seems that it might already be wired like that.   240VAC going down the L/+ pin, or 120VAC going down the L/+ pin, 120VAC going down the Neutral pin.

You guys have been extremely helpful and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me learn something new and make sure I'm up to code.    I'm back from the ER, and good news is I don't have anything horrible.   They believe my drastic weight loss is simply due to the high level of stress that I'm under.   The business is a new type of stress, but it's a good stress, that I have control over.   I break everything up into smaller tasks.   Each task causes a bit of stress, but when it's finished, that stress is gone.   There is a lot going on in my life or that has recently gone on that I have no control over (my parents are both in the process of dying, my best friend killed himself in my backyard and the local police made me watch on my HD-DVR "because they didn't know how to use the DVR").   There's more than that, but this thread isn't about my stress and my life.   Just wanted to say that I think being worried like I was, was definitely affecting my thinking, and now that I know there's nothing really wrong with me, I'm back to being able to concentrate and think a lot more clear like.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2018, 07:21:41 pm »
He has already given the model of the device twice, it's a rack mount power distribution unit.

HPE P9S16A PDU

I think that is the elephant in the room that's not being talked about, will this device still be safe if it is fed two Lines as opposed to a line and a neutral.

With the OP so concerned about changing the plug voiding the warranty, I think he is missing the bigger issue, will feeding this pdu two lines void the warranty?

And besides that will it even be safe?


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Changing the plug, again, doesn't fix the problem.   The cord still only has three wires, just like the plug.    However, you bring up a valid point, and I will call HPE to double check that this unit is truly meant to be used in the USA.   I have noticed, depending on who you talk to at some of these larger companies, you're given conflicting information.   In the beginning, a Microsoft Sales rep said we could just use Windows Home editions to run the business!   That's a no.   Now, Microsoft and a Microsoft reseller are fighting over whether we can legally have Windows 10 Enterprise E3 with the Cloud Service Provider agreement installed on the local workstations / servers or if they need to be hosted somewheres not on-premise.   We're currently going with what the reseller said, and hopefully he's right.   But multiple times, Microsoft, as one, has provided us with conflicting information, depending on who we've talked to.   Calling HPE is just a phone call.   Doesn't hurt to double check.

To properly replace the plug, I'd have to open the unit, which will void warranty, and replace the actual cord as well as the plug.   If that's the only way to keep it up to code, to keep it safe, I would rather void the warranty and do that than risk burning the house down.   Our options for HPE PDUs are limited to literally only this one, with the features that feel we _need_.   There was one we wanted, that had extra features, but they only made it in three-phase.   After talking to the professional electrician, it would cost over 50,000$ to run 3-phase to our house (which I think is kinda B.S., personally, but eh).   He says there's no 3-phase on our street.   I'm not an expert on power lines, but to me, the pole out back really looks like three-phase.   I can upload pics of that.

3-phase would cost money, but would open the doors a bit for us.   But then we'd have to send back all the PSUs and order 3-phase ones, and that opens a whole nother can of worms.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2018, 07:23:21 pm »
Replacing the plug itself puts us in the same predicament that we're in now.   That plug only has three pins, therefore, it only has three wires inside running to those three pins.

Which is fine, if it were suited to split-phase supply, because you could just put a NEMA plug on and use a normal NEMA socket, and off you go.

Quote
It's not like I can just through a NEMA twist-and-lock plug on there and wire it up properly.   The wire itself would be what would limit us.   So, the only way to really properly put a NEMA twist-and-lock plug on it or something similar, would be to tear the unit apart and see how they have the actual cable wired up, and see if I can wire it differently, where it accepts two 120VAC's, but from reading everyone's responses, it seems that it might already be wired like that.   240VAC going down the L/+ pin, or 120VAC going down the L/+ pin, 120VAC going down the Neutral pin.

It is not wired like that. It almost certainly only has single pole breakers - this is not suitable for a split-phase system.

You cannot use this PDU safely with a split-phase supply. If 240V operation is desired you will need to use smaller PDUs which do not require additional protection, obtain a single-phase 208V or 240V supply, or use a transformer to provide such (this is a not inexpensive lump of iron..).
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2018, 07:30:03 pm »
It can be used in the USA - on a single phase 208V supply. Not a split-phase 240V one, preferably.

Quote
The plug it's using is common over there, the built-in breakers show the derated values of the breakers, the plug itself shows the derated value of the plug (breakers shouldn't continuously handle a load more than 80% of what they're rated for, that 80% is called the derated value, and everything here shows the derated value (80% of 20 is 16, 80% of 40 is 32.   The two breakers both show 16-Amp, the plug shows 32-Amp)).

Bollocks. That's the American approach to breakers and that is not how they are rated in the rest of the world. A 16A breaker carries 16A continuous. A 32A plug handles 32A continuous. Those are not deratings, they are ratings.

Let me reword it a bit.   Over in Europe, a 32A breaker is equivalent to our North American 40-Amp breakers.   Does that sense?

Here's an article I just googled that explains it better than I can.   Give it a read and let me know what you think.

http://www.raritan.com/blog/detail/rack-pdu-power-rating-vs.-load-capacity
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 07:31:41 pm by Spork Schivago »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 07:31:42 pm »
It can be used in the USA - on a single phase 208V supply. Not a split-phase 240V one, preferably.

Quote
The plug it's using is common over there, the built-in breakers show the derated values of the breakers, the plug itself shows the derated value of the plug (breakers shouldn't continuously handle a load more than 80% of what they're rated for, that 80% is called the derated value, and everything here shows the derated value (80% of 20 is 16, 80% of 40 is 32.   The two breakers both show 16-Amp, the plug shows 32-Amp)).

Bollocks. That's the American approach to breakers and that is not how they are rated in the rest of the world. A 16A breaker carries 16A continuous. A 32A plug handles 32A continuous. Those are not deratings, they are ratings.

Let me reword it a bit.   Over in Europe, a 32A breaker is equivalent to our North American 40-Amp breakers.   Does that sense?

Not really, no, because trip characteristics don't necessarily work like that. But it doesn't matter anyway.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 10:08:27 pm »
You could have your electrician wire one of these into the circuit that you install for PDU.
This will provide a true single-phase (neutral at ground-potential) 240V power circuit.

  • Input Voltage: 240/480VAC
  • Output Voltage: 120/240VAC
  • VA Rating: 7.5KVA
  • $605.49 /EA
  • Item ships from Zoro in 1 business day.
    This item ships FREE

https://www.zoro.com/acme-electric-transformer-75kva-120240v-wall-t2535153s/i/G2253343/#specifications


 

Offline dmills

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2018, 10:30:37 pm »
The P9S13A and 14A have double pole breakers for 240V split phase service (Or I assume 208V two legs plus neutral from a 120V three phase supply), see the quickspecs sheet.

The P9S16A has only single pole breakers for 230V service with an earthed neutral, it is NOT suitable for 240V split phase service or 208V two phase plus neutral.

You have the wrong PDUs for your supply, send em back and get the right ones. 

You could use an isolating transformer to produce a (UK parlance warning) "Separately derived supply", which would give you 230V with an earthed neutral but the NEC may have things to say about this.

Regards, Dan.
 
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Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2018, 11:03:46 pm »
The P9S13A and 14A have double pole breakers for 240V split phase service (Or I assume 208V two legs plus neutral from a 120V three phase supply), see the quickspecs sheet.

The P9S16A has only single pole breakers for 230V service with an earthed neutral, it is NOT suitable for 240V split phase service or 208V two phase plus neutral.

You have the wrong PDUs for your supply, send em back and get the right ones. 

You could use an isolating transformer to produce a (UK parlance warning) "Separately derived supply", which would give you 230V with an earthed neutral but the NEC may have things to say about this.

Regards, Dan.

If I had the wrong one, which would be the correct one to purchase with the same features (same load capacitance, switched, etc.?)   I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.   I've contacted my VAR and I'm supposed to send him a short email with my question so he can pass it along to the HPE techs, and then we decide if we need a conference call to answer my question(s), if the PDU won't work for my situation, or figure out how it's supposed to wired.

I didn't see any split-phased PDUs listed.   Only single-phase, and 3-phase....at least from my crappy recollection.

Thanks!
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2018, 11:05:21 pm »
I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.

And if you do that you'll have a 30A or thereabouts breaker protecting wiring not rated for it.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2018, 11:21:20 pm »
I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.

And if you do that you'll have a 30A or thereabouts breaker protecting wiring not rated for it.

That's the question though, would I?   This is what HPE needs to answer and why we're getting them involved now.   To see if I'm supposed to wire it with 120VAC going down the L/+ pin and down the neutral pin or if I'm just supposed to have 240VAC going down the L/+ pin.   If HPE says L/+ pin, then I can try to find an equivalent, which I don't think I can, I might be able to purchase a smaller unit that produces 240VAC output and daisy chain a few together, or purchase what the one user linked me to to provide the 240VAC for L/+.   So we have a few options it looks like, depending on how HPE responds.   I've sent the email, tomorrow my VAR will forward it along, and he'll call me later in the day to see where we stand.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2018, 11:22:16 pm »
I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.

And if you do that you'll have a 30A or thereabouts breaker protecting wiring not rated for it.

That's the question though, would I?

Yes. Because it has single pole breakers.

Get the P9S13A instead. Have an L6-30 outlet installed.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:24:44 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2018, 11:58:56 pm »
I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.

And if you do that you'll have a 30A or thereabouts breaker protecting wiring not rated for it.

That's the question though, would I?

Yes. Because it has single pole breakers.

Get the P9S13A instead. Have an L6-30 outlet installed.
How do you know that those two breakers inside the unit are single-pole?   I know the plug itself is using three 8-gauge wires.   Have you seen a tear down or something or is there some way you can tell by the info that was provided?   I wonder why HPE lists this unit as International.   I can buy the whole sales talked to tech and tech was just wrong thing.   That has happened before, not with HPE, but with Microsoft, for instance.   I'm not asking this trying to be a smart ass or anything, I'm just trying to learn a little and get a better understanding.

Thanks.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2018, 12:00:07 am »
I talked to my European friend and he said it's just a language barrier and I'm supposed to run 120VAC down the L/+ and Neutral.

And if you do that you'll have a 30A or thereabouts breaker protecting wiring not rated for it.

That's the question though, would I?

Yes. Because it has single pole breakers.

Get the P9S13A instead. Have an L6-30 outlet installed.
How do you know that those two breakers inside the unit are single-pole?   I know the plug itself is using three 8-gauge wires.   Have you seen a tear down or something or is there some way you can tell by the info that was provided?   I wonder why HPE lists this unit as International.   I can buy the whole sales talked to tech and tech was just wrong thing.   That has happened before, not with HPE, but with Microsoft, for instance.   I'm not asking this trying to be a smart ass or anything, I'm just trying to learn a little and get a better understanding.

Thanks.

Look at the documents Richard linked.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2018, 12:02:20 am »
I cannot use the P9S13A's.   That's 208VAC outlets.   I need 220VAC+.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2018, 12:14:03 am »
I've looked at that document many times, I have a copy saved.   I think my limited understanding of the AC threw me off.   You're talking about on page 8, so was Richard, right?

So, in layman's terms, could one of you guys explain to me why those 1-pole 16A breakers are an issue, versus me having two 2-pole 20A breakers?

That device Richard Crowley linked too, I call that a step-up transformer, I'm not sure what they call it, but that would safely complete the requirements to provide the necessary 240VAC single-phase that I need, correct?

Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, etc?   I want to find something with at least IP44 rating, but maybe IP67.   I dunno yet.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2018, 12:15:48 am »
So, in layman's terms, could one of you guys explain to me why those 1-pole 16A breakers are an issue, versus me having two 2-pole 20A breakers?

With only a single pole breaker, one hot leg will still be protected by the upstream breaker. None of the outlets, nor the cables plugged into them, are rated for this.

Quote
Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, etc?   I want to find something with at least IP44 rating, but maybe IP67.   I dunno yet.

I can't speak to your codes. As for IP ratings, don't put it outside and you won't need IP67...
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2018, 12:18:37 am »
So, in layman's terms, could one of you guys explain to me why those 1-pole 16A breakers are an issue, versus me having two 2-pole 20A breakers?

With only a single pole breaker, one hot leg will still be protected by the upstream breaker. None of the outlets, nor the cables plugged into them, are rated for this.

Quote
Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, etc?   I want to find something with at least IP44 rating, but maybe IP67.   I dunno yet.

I can't speak to your codes. As for IP ratings, don't put it outside and you won't need IP67...
I don't plan on putting it outside, but our basement is made out of cement, and that's where it's gonna be mounted.   I'd feel a lot safer with IP67 if that wall ever started seeping through.

Do you mean one of the hot legs won't be protected by the upstream breaker?
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2018, 12:19:35 am »
Do you mean one of the hot legs won't be protected by the upstream breaker?

It will be protected only by the upstream breaker.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2018, 12:32:25 am »
So, in layman's terms, could one of you guys explain to me why those 1-pole 16A breakers are an issue, versus me having two 2-pole 20A breakers?
Because the PDU is designed to have only the "L" at an elevated voltage.  The "N" is assumed to be essentially zero-potential (relative to ground).
If you wire that to a "split phase" where "L" is at 120V, AND "N" is at 120V (both relative to ground) then you are putting everything plugged into it at risk because turning off a single-phase breaker leaves the "N" side at 120V and that is VERY unsafe.

Quote
That device Richard Crowley linked too, I call that a step-up transformer, I'm not sure what they call it,
No. You can wire it "straight-across" (240V in and 240V out) in which case you could call it an "isolation transformer".
But it has many more taps on the primary (input) side, up to 400-500V so that you can tap into higher voltage sources (as in a large industrial situation). In that case you could call it a "step-DOWN" transformer.

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but that would safely complete the requirements to provide the necessary 240VAC single-phase that I need, correct?
Yes. Because you can have the electrician wire the secondary (output) of the transformer for 240V, and connect one side to ground.  That makes it a single-phase, ground-referenced source which is exactly what the PDU wants.

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Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, etc?
   
That is ultimately up to your electrical inspector (from the local governmental jurisdiction.)
In a public/industrial/commercial setting you may need to have a licensed professional engineer "design" the circuit and approve it to satisfy the inspector.

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I want to find something with at least IP44 rating, but maybe IP67.   I dunno yet.
Many/most large transformers like that come in a version designed for outdoor installation.  Designed for operation in the rain, etc.  Is that what you mean?  The example I cited claims: "Enclosure Type Indoor/Outdoor", so designed to operate out in the weather.  Unless you seek something that will operate immersed?  Planning on operating during a flood?
 
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Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2018, 12:58:25 am »
So, in layman's terms, could one of you guys explain to me why those 1-pole 16A breakers are an issue, versus me having two 2-pole 20A breakers?
Because the PDU is designed to have only the "L" at an elevated voltage.  The "N" is assumed to be essentially zero-potential (relative to ground).
If you wire that to a "split phase" where "L" is at 120V, AND "N" is at 120V (both relative to ground) then you are putting everything plugged into it at risk because turning off a single-phase breaker leaves the "N" side at 120V and that is VERY unsafe.
So when HP speaks of 1-phase and lists NA/JP for the models, they're really meaning split-phase, for the higher than 120VAC PDUs, correct?   And split-phase is what we have coming into our house, not 1-phase, right?   120VAC - 0 - 120VAC.   That clears a lot of stuff up for me.

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That device Richard Crowley linked too, I call that a step-up transformer, I'm not sure what they call it,
No. You can wire it "straight-across" (240V in and 240V out) in which case you could call it an "isolation transformer".
But it has many more taps on the primary (input) side, up to 400-500V so that you can tap into higher voltage sources (as in a large industrial situation). In that case you could call it a "step-DOWN" transformer.
Thank you for the clarification there!   I didn't thoroughly enough.   I understand.

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but that would safely complete the requirements to provide the necessary 240VAC single-phase that I need, correct?
Yes. Because you can have the electrician wire the secondary (output) of the transformer for 240V, and connect one side to ground.  That makes it a single-phase, ground-referenced source which is exactly what the PDU wants.
I would rather try wiring it up myself, properly.   Are you familiar with the brand name at all?   Are they any good?

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Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, etc?
   
That is ultimately up to your electrical inspector (from the local governmental jurisdiction.)
In a public/industrial/commercial setting you may need to have a licensed professional engineer "design" the circuit and approve it to satisfy the inspector.
When I said Where I wouldn't be violating any codes, I was speaking strictly about the NEC, not the modifications (more like additions, from how I read the rules) that my local jurisdiction (Steuben County) can make to the NEC.   Would this violate any of the NEC that all states must follow?   If I cannot get passed that, there's no point going to my local governmental jurisdiction.   As I understand it, they can add to the NEC, but they cannot remove stuff from the NEC.   So if it fails the NEC right  now, no matter where I live in the USA, no local governmental jurisdiction can modify the NEC in such a way where it'd pass.

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I want to find something with at least IP44 rating, but maybe IP67.   I dunno yet.
Many/most large transformers like that come in a version designed for outdoor installation.  Designed for operation in the rain, etc.  Is that what you mean?  The example I cited claims: "Enclosure Type Indoor/Outdoor", so designed to operate out in the weather.  Unless you seek something that will operate immersed?  Planning on operating during a flood?
We do not plan on operating it immersed!   If it's ever immersed, we have bigger issues to deal with!

I read IP14 as:
1:  Any large surface of the body, such as the back of the hand, but no protection against deliberate contact with a body part.
4:  Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect.

I read IP6<whatever> as:  No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact.

In the basement, there is dust, that's for sure.   We have a dehumidifier running 24/7 that has actually helped filter a lot of it (although, that was not the intention for which we installed it).   With a little one in the house, we keep a tight eye on her, but she is growing fast, and eventually, she'll be at that age where she'll go down into the basement.   And when I was a child, at that age (going down into the basement age, not her age), I found a green fuse and put it in a light socket, thinking it'd glow green when I pulled the string to turn on the light.    I also took a screwdriver and put it in an electrical outlet, thinking the end would light up like a lightbulb.    Neither experience was very memorable.

Here, we're dealing with a lot more current than what the light socket or receptacle could provide.   I would love to say no matter what, she'd never be in the basement unsupervised, but sooner or later, she'll have her own room.   We'll do our best to raise her, but she might sneak out at night, or go down into the basement to play, I dunno.   If you feel that IP14 rating is good enough for the basement, and she'd have to do some work to get hurt on that, then I'll go for that one.

Finally, is 7.5KVA the correct rating for this unit?   Assuming that I'm drawing the entire 7.3KVA from my PDU, and I was drawing that constantly, would that 7.5KVA transformer hold up, or should I maybe consider purchasing a larger one?   Right now, we went for 7.3KVA, but made sure we could daisy chain another PDU, if needed.   We're a start-up company, just my wife and me.   We're going to be close to the 7.3KVA already.   It gives us a little wiggle room for a few upgrades / extra equipment, but eventually, we'll need to purchase another PDU, if I've done my math correctly.   We're still a ways away from that.   The idea now is to try and make some revenue and stop spending cash in the near future.   I think we have just about everything we need, minus a few little extras (the transformer, a proper gateway, some shielded ethernet ends, etc).

Your post makes a lot more sense to me now.
 

Offline Spork SchivagoTopic starter

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Re: How to wire up a 240VAC receptacle
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2018, 01:11:58 am »
Also, that transformer lists the input as 240,480VAC.   It also lists it as single phase.   240x480 on the primary, 120x240 on the secondary.   With it being one phase, wouldn't that put us in the same predicament that we're in now?   Or am I misunderstanding something here?

Here's a link to the datasheet:

https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/a43930206090ced4ef847635416f7c30.pdf

So I'd connect the primary lines to H1-H3 and H2-H4, then I'd connect the secondary lines to X1 - X4?   Here's the wiring diagrams:    https://www.galco.com/techdoc/acme/t-2-53515-3s_wd.pdf

I see the interconnect for secondary volts as X2 to X3.   So I tie X2 and X3 together.....My one hot from the breaker would run from H1-H3, and then another hot would run to H2-H4?   I'd ground the transformer to one of the buss-bars.    Then just connect X1-X4 directly to the L/+ on the receptacle, using the proper sized wire, of course, right?

It seems to me, I'd run H2-H4 together and H1-H3 together, but then one set would be tied to the neutral, one to the hot....but that can't be right because it expects 240 minimum on the primary.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:52:03 am by Spork Schivago »
 


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