I need a Capacitor Tester that will Test below 1uf help!!!

[finom1]

Hello,
I have a Peak Atlas ESR70 and it will not read film capacitor below 1uf!!

I purchased a, 200pcs 25 Types 630V 0.001uf~2.2uf CBB Metal Film Capacitors Assortment Kit from Banggood - http://www.banggood.com/200pcs-25-Types-630V-0_001uf2_2uf-CBB-Metal-Film-Capacitors-Assortment-Kit-p-1084662.html?rmmds=mywishlist

I checked the ESR 70 manual and it will check from 1uf - 22K uf.

I need some advice on which cap tester to buy that will test from .2pf and up?

Thank you for any help on this matter.

[Macbeth]

Tiny pF capacitors will have no such thing as an ESR worth worrying about. The Peak ESR tester is for finding bad caps - disgusting liquid filled electrolytics in power supplies that shit their venom over a PCB for being underrated or made by a no-name (though CrapXcon are famous) of some cheap concoction in China.

If you really want to measure very small capacitance or resistance of brand new out of circuit components then you will have to get a 4 wire meter with Kelvin connections like a DER EE-5000 which is quite a bargain, especially when sourced from Japan with all its accessories. IIRC I paid $100 USD delivered to the UK

[cvanc]

2nd on the DER EE-5000; but you will have to check the specs to see how small a capacitor value it can measure.  Pretty sure it doesn't go down to values as tiny as you are asking about (I'm not sure anything reasonably priced does).

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

These capacitors are rated at 630V. What voltage do you plan on using them at?

I would be more concerned about high voltage breakdown, rather than ESR.
You might want to test them with an insulation tester.

630V is the dc rating. This type of capacitor should be limited to 200vac. If you need ac rating you need a capacitor which has multiple capacitors in series (internally).

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[The Soulman]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

[finom1]

2nd on the DER EE-5000; but you will have to check the specs to see how small a capacitor value it can measure.  Pretty sure it doesn't go down to values as tiny as you are asking about (I'm not sure anything reasonably priced does).

Thank you for sharing!!!

I will look into the specs on this. I will keep the ESR 70 for larger caps, I was looking for something to measure smaller caps that are sometimes hard to identify with the numbers they have on them.
Like this;
1. 237K
2. CBB22 (I have three very different sized caps with the same numbers on them?)
3. 223K
4. 102J
5. 103J
6. 332K
7. 222J
8. CBB21
9. 156J
10. 682J
11. CL21
12. 33NJ
13. CBB28
14. CL21X
15. 224K
16. 334J
17. Etc...

Thank you for your great advice!

[finom1]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

Yes, you are correct. My main objective was to able to identify quickly what the value of these smaller caps are and if they are within tolerance.

Concerning voltage break down, then I will test them on some vintage cap testers I will be restoring for our new work bench for my son and I.

I need to properly identify what I have been buying to restore the vintage test equipment. WE are new at this, so this is part of the learning curve to acquiring the proper equipment to accomplish a task.

Thank you for share!!!

[finom1]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

Good advice.

Thank you for sharing!!!

[DimitriP]

being able to measure them is one thing.
Knowing what the markings mean, it's another

http://tubeamplifierparts.com/handy-amp-info/capacitor-code-chart.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/capcodeinfo.html

[finom1]

being able to measure them is one thing.
Knowing what the markings mean, it's another

http://tubeamplifierparts.com/handy-amp-info/capacitor-code-chart.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/capcodeinfo.html

WOW, fantastic!!!

Just what we needed to go along with the new meter.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us!!!

[finom1]

2nd on the DER EE-5000; but you will have to check the specs to see how small a capacitor value it can measure.  Pretty sure it doesn't go down to values as tiny as you are asking about (I'm not sure anything reasonably priced does).

Looks like this will work for us!!! Check this out and see what you think.
http://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf

[PA4TIM]

Edit, I had not seen the link to the seller, these are not what I was thinking. Why you want fF resolution for those caps ?  I think they are rather useless at anything above 1nF and audio

original post just for if you are interested:

The DE-5000 can do what you want, but measuring sub-10 pF is not very usefull unless you are working at very high frequency RF stuff. And there you want to know the appearant capacitance at the work-frequency.
Under 10pF paracitics in the measurement setup often become a problem. Resolution is not difficult, microprocessors make it easy to give you a resolution of 1 aF if you want, some Chinese brands are very creative in that area, but to make it usable is an other thing. 2 banana busses at the standard width from each other often have 2 - 4pF capacitance, (and that is without the banana plugs)

I have a GR-1520 bridge, they are still made and they can measure with aF resolution, but  can you ?    (operating it for small capacitance measurements is not easy)

There are several ways to measure capacitance, the trick most ESR meters do is easy to copy. They measure the impedance of a cap at 100kHz. At that frequency the reactance of electrolytics is very small compared to the ESR. Meters like the DE-5000 measure the real ESR (as given by datasheets from caps, and that is always at 100/120 or 1000Hz. I never seen one that stated ESR at 100kHz, but they most times do give the impedance at 100kHz.

http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=2929
Here I use that idea to measure fF, I measure the impedance at 1kHz, higher frequencys make it more easy but in that case parasitics can become a problem. At 1kHz, ESR for sub 10pF caps, is very small compared to the reactance. (but far from small in ohms) That blog page shows several experiments  to measure small capacitance values.

There are more important things to worry about with caps from sources like yours.
That is DC leakage, max working voltage, volt coefficient (capacitance from several types of ceramic caps is extreme variable depending the voltage over it), tolerance, temperature coefficient, and some more things (but those only play a roll in more extreme situations)

There are several types of ceramics, if there is no information about the type of a ceramic cap you have , they are more or less useless. For decoupling low power rails(15V or so) with >1nF you can get a way with almost any cap, but lower values are often used in circuits where those things do play a roll. Replacing a 1% 47pF C0G that is used in a resonant tank circuit or filter in a radio, with a Z5U with unknown specs will not make you happy, unless you want a radio you can tune by regulating the room temperature or supply voltage 

[finom1]

Edit, I had not seen the link to the seller, these are not what I was thinking. Why you want fF resolution for those caps ?  I think they are rather useless at anything above 1nF and audio

original post just for if you are interested:

The DE-5000 can do what you want, but measuring sub-10 pF is not very usefull unless you are working at very high frequency RF stuff. And there you want to know the appearant capacitance at the work-frequency.
Under 10pF paracitics in the measurement setup often become a problem. Resolution is not difficult, microprocessors make it easy to give you a resolution of 1 aF if you want, some Chinese brands are very creative in that area, but to make it usable is an other thing. 2 banana busses at the standard width from each other often have 2 - 4pF capacitance, (and that is without the banana plugs)

I have a GR-1520 bridge, they are still made and they can measure with aF resolution, but  can you ?    (operating it for small capacitance measurements is not easy)

There are several ways to measure capacitance, the trick most ESR meters do is easy to copy. They measure the impedance of a cap at 100kHz. At that frequency the reactance of electrolytics is very small compared to the ESR. Meters like the DE-5000 measure the real ESR (as given by datasheets from caps, and that is always at 100/120 or 1000Hz. I never seen one that stated ESR at 100kHz, but they most times do give the impedance at 100kHz.

http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=2929
Here I use that idea to measure fF, I measure the impedance at 1kHz, higher frequencys make it more easy but in that case parasitics can become a problem. At 1kHz, ESR for sub 10pF caps, is very small compared to the reactance. (but far from small in ohms) That blog page shows several experiments  to measure small capacitance values.

There are more important things to worry about with caps from sources like yours.
That is DC leakage, max working voltage, volt coefficient (capacitance from several types of ceramic caps is extreme variable depending the voltage over it), tolerance, temperature coefficient, and some more things (but those only play a roll in more extreme situations)

There are several types of ceramics, if there is no information about the type of a ceramic cap you have , they are more or less useless. For decoupling low power rails(15V or so) with >1nF you can get a way with almost any cap, but lower values are often used in circuits where those things do play a roll. Replacing a 1% 47pF C0G that is used in a resonant tank circuit or filter in a radio, with a Z5U with unknown specs will not make you happy, unless you want a radio you can tune by regulating the room temperature or supply voltage 

You are very knowledgeable in this area. Thank you for sharing. Your proof their are extremely intelligent people in this forum.

Some back ground for what we are trying to accomplish at this time. I am trying to set up a test bench for my son and I. We have purchased vintage test equipment and have been purchasing parts to restore them.

Most have a common precision components;
1. Electrolytic caps, 8uf, 4uf, 2uf from 250 vdc - 600 vdc
2. Film caps, .01 and up 630 vdc 1% tolerance
3. Mica caps, 200pf 600 vdc 1% tolerance
4. Very few ceramic caps are required

We have acquired a couple of vintage 1950s vacuum tube organs that were going to be trashed. WE then disassembled them, sold parts to buy the test equipment and will use the components to help restore vintage tube radios and amplifiers. Some will be converted into guitar amplifiers.

We are just starting out with this new hobby. With this additional information could you please recommend a capacitor tester that would identify & test caps with pf values for us?

We do have a ESR70 for larger values.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us and the great link!!!

[Savetheday]

Hi
I use old Peaktech 3710 Capacitance but it works well with all Pico Nana Micro Farad.
Good Luck.

[tggzzz]

For sub-picofarad capacitors, see http://www.edn.com/design/test-and-measurement/4435414/Sub-picofarad-measurement-with-CMOS-inverters

With 630V capacitors, don't put them across the mains - unless they have the appropriate X/Y ratings. Yes, vintage ones do explode - I replaced 2 exploded ones last week (inside Tek scopes), and replaced 8 others before they exploded. The consequence of the explosion also detonated a resistor, spreading carbon across the PCB and exposing the glass fibre inside the PCB.

[dannyf]

"rom .2pf and up?"

If you worry about ESR of such small capacitors, you are far more capable than anyone here .

If you are talking about ESR of a sub if capacitor, try the ESR meter I built on my blog post. In stock form, it goes down to that range.

With that said, lots of other parameters come into play here.

[finom1]

"rom .2pf and up?"

If you worry about ESR of such small capacitors, you are far more capable than anyone here .

If you are talking about ESR of a sub if capacitor, try the ESR meter I built on my blog post. In stock form, it goes down to that range.

With that said, lots of other parameters come into play here.

ESR was not my first goal. I just needed to identify the values of the film capacitors with no or unfamiliar markings.

We purchased the ESR 70 for the electrolytic caps.
WE also purchased a Atlas DCA Pro - Model DCA75, to identify germanium pnp transistors so we could build vintage guitar effects pedals.

WE are look for a cap tester under $200 that will perform just as well as these do for what they were designed for.

Thank you for sharing.

[Mechatrommer]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

normal DMM usually only go down to nF range, you have to peek in decimal places for pF range and hope those decimal places are correct. below is another cheap option that will measure 0.01pF up to 100mF (HC mode). read very quickly and reliably far more than my Uni-T UT71A DMM.

http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/LC200A-Inductance-Inductor-Capacitance-Capacitor-L-C-Multimeter-Meter-Tester-/121245772965?hash=item1c3acfaca5:g:YHgAAOSwqfNXowBx
http://mpl.jp/lc/LC200A%20%20EN%20V5.0.pdf

[finom1]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

normal DMM usually only go down to nF range, you have to peek in decimal places for pF range and hope those decimal places are correct. below is another cheap option that will measure 0.01pF up to 100mF (HC mode). read very quickly and reliably far more than my Uni-T UT71A DMM.

http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/LC200A-Inductance-Inductor-Capacitance-Capacitor-L-C-Multimeter-Meter-Tester-/121245772965?hash=item1c3acfaca5:g:YHgAAOSwqfNXowBx
http://mpl.jp/lc/LC200A%20%20EN%20V5.0.pdf

That is much less expensive. I am just not knowledgeable enough to compare this and the DER EE-5000.

If you have time or someone else with the proper knowledge could  please compare the two and provide your opinions on which one after reading what are needs are, would be the best choice. I sent the seller an email requesting a link to the owners manual so I can look at it! If they send it, I will post it here.

Thank you for the great advice!!!

[finom1]

I just found this:
LC200A China L/C Meter Review and Teardown  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q-epdC1nf4,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiuveyHpufPAhVGJh4KHd3UBKMQFgg0MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmpl.jp%2Flc%2FLC200A%2520%2520EN%2520V5.0.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE49dbAah1Bc6Q6nTB-DROAblq--A&sig2=rDdFAHYA7T7GR_4fke6l6Q

LC200A has four measuring range position:
1. C range ........Capacitance (0.01pF-10uF)
2. L range ........Inductance (0.001uH-100mH)
3. Hi.L range ......Big inductance (0.001mH-100H)
4. Hi.C range ......Big capacitance (1uF-100mF)

Let me know what you think for the comparison of the two meters.

Thank you.

[PA4TIM]

For what you want almost every LCR meter or vintage LCR bridge will do. But operating a bridge is a bit of an art. I have a IET DE-5000 that I use every day (I repair test and calibration gear), besides that I have a small collection bridges from General Radio (1620, 1650, 1608, 1602, 1603 and stuff you need for some, like generators and detectors) A HP4260 and a very nice and easy usable Wayne Kerr CT-492.  The 1620, 1608 and 1650 have no problem measuring with 1pF resolution.

My hobby is restauration of vintage test gear (and radio stuff)

Sub-pF resolution is in 99% of the cases not needed and if you need it, you need a sound knowledge of electronics and metrology. This week I was compensating a 200x differential attenuator that I use with a Tek P6046 diff probe. I wanted to measure the parasitic capacitance of resistors at 10 and 100kHz to select the best option. I needed to match small caps in values under 10pF. But things like this I do maybe once a year. I build a RF sweep generator. I used very small caps for that. But measuring with an LCR meter is useless because the filters were for 25 upto 2 GHz. I calculate the values, build a fixture in the size of the filter "enclosure" and sma connectors on both sides. I use the LCR meter if IO can not read the text on the caps and in the case I make my own caps and then I use a VNA to build the filter.

I made a small tutorial about buying an LCR meter. http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=4398
All about ESR: http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3775

For repairing vintage radios you need an oscilloscope with probes that can handle high voltage. Beter a vintage scope as a cheap Chinese you blow up if voltage is a bit higher as expected.
A 1:1 isolation transformer and a lightbulb you can use in series as protection
A decent multimeter (because in tube stuff there are high voltages and guitar-amps can source a lot of current. (I play electric guitar too)
A LCR meter that measures at 100  and 1000 Hz, nice to have 10k and 100k too. More important is that it can measures D and Q too.
A function generator (and for RF stuff a RF generator )

[finom1]

For what you want almost every LCR meter or vintage LCR bridge will do. But operating a bridge is a bit of an art. I have a IET DE-5000 that I use every day (I repair test and calibration gear), besides that I have a small collection bridges from General Radio (1620, 1650, 1608, 1602, 1603 and stuff you need for some, like generators and detectors) A HP4260 and a very nice and easy usable Wayne Kerr CT-492.  The 1620, 1608 and 1650 have no problem measuring with 1pF resolution.

My hobby is restauration of vintage test gear (and radio stuff)

Sub-pF resolution is in 99% of the cases not needed and if you need it, you need a sound knowledge of electronics and metrology. This week I was compensating a 200x differential attenuator that I use with a Tek P6046 diff probe. I wanted to measure the parasitic capacitance of resistors at 10 and 100kHz to select the best option. I needed to match small caps in values under 10pF. But things like this I do maybe once a year. I build a RF sweep generator. I used very small caps for that. But measuring with an LCR meter is useless because the filters were for 25 upto 2 GHz. I calculate the values, build a fixture in the size of the filter "enclosure" and sma connectors on both sides. I use the LCR meter if IO can not read the text on the caps and in the case I make my own caps and then I use a VNA to build the filter.

I made a small tutorial about buying an LCR meter. http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=4398
All about ESR: http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3775

For repairing vintage radios you need an oscilloscope with probes that can handle high voltage. Beter a vintage scope as a cheap Chinese you blow up if voltage is a bit higher as expected.
A 1:1 isolation transformer and a lightbulb you can use in series as protection
A decent multimeter (because in tube stuff there are high voltages and guitar-amps can source a lot of current. (I play electric guitar too)
A LCR meter that measures at 100  and 1000 Hz, nice to have 10k and 100k too. More important is that it can measures D and Q too.
A function generator (and for RF stuff a RF generator )

Good advice, it looks like $132 shipped to my house in Maryland USA.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us!!!

[kripton2035]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

below 100pF most standard multimeters will have huge errors on the value.
+3 on the deree de5000

[finom1]

If you just want to measure/check the capacitance, most decent multimeters will do.

below 100pF most standard multimeters will have huge errors on the value.
+3 on the deree de5000

Great links.

Thank you for sharing!!!

[dannyf]

Sub Pf capacitance is hard to measure. Two alternatives: use an LC oscillator and measures its frequency, or to drive it by an oscillator of known frequency. A crystal oscillator will do fine HerE.