Author Topic: ideas for 400kV modules  (Read 1180 times)

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Offline metrologist

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ideas for 400kV modules
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:52:49 AM »
Recently I saw Big Clive review some 400kV modules, and since he supplied a link of where to purchase I got some.

Simply arcing them was entertaining for almost a minute, so now what can I use them for? I'm not going to touch the arc.

Would these work for a Jacobs ladder or any other sort of project? How long of an arc can I set up before risking an internal arc and destroy the module? Can I leave it open circuit as for a bug zapper?

Is that smell ozone?
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 11:39:50 AM »
I bought one myself just for the fun of it, I mean £1.77 including delivery, who wouldn't?  :-//

Just sticking a single 18650 on its inputs unleashes an insane venom that makes you jump out of your skin on its output, the audible crack is not captured on any video. I can understand why Big Clive had to have the calming influence of alcohol before shoving his finger tip into the spark.

Now there are youtube vids on how to make a stun gun out of it with a battery, push button, and a couple of nails. Also an "EMP" device using a coil.

Pretty boring. The stun gun thing will get you a mandatory minimum 5 years in prison in the UK - no exceptions whether used in anger or not.

So it's a mildly interesting device. I've burned through paper and fruit with it, but it's not useful as an EHT source because it needs that bloody spark gap to stop killing itself!

400kV is also ludicrous. It's in the 10's of kV. Though I do believe it's more than 30kV as that was the old LOPT CRT voltage on old TV's and they never gave out anything like as nasty as this thing!

I wonder if as well as ozone it's belting out X-rays as well?
 

Offline DTJ

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 11:45:53 AM »
I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.


Tazer gauntlet?


 

Offline blueskull

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 12:12:00 PM »
400kV is also ludicrous. It's in the 10's of kV. Though I do believe it's more than 30kV as that was the old LOPT CRT voltage on old TV's and they never gave out anything like as nasty as this thing!

These things can easily draw arcs of 15+cm, so 400kV peak sounds legit.
I used to have one. so called 500kV module, I tied one end to ground, the other to a rubber insulated cable hung in the middle of a room.
Needless to say, while watching the light show, half of electronics in the room froze, and that's just pure awesomeness.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 12:20:52 PM »
I made a spark through a grape vine...
 
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Offline Assafl

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 03:59:09 AM »
Recently I saw Big Clive review some 400kV modules, and since he supplied a link of where to purchase I got some.

Simply arcing them was entertaining for almost a minute, so now what can I use them for? I'm not going to touch the arc.

Would these work for a Jacobs ladder or any other sort of project? How long of an arc can I set up before risking an internal arc and destroy the module? Can I leave it open circuit as for a bug zapper?

Is that smell ozone?

Yup. Ozone. And burnt floating skin and debris.

I don't think a Jacobs ladder would work. I think it is pulsed so the spark wont climb.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 10:21:57 AM »
These things can easily draw arcs of 15+cm, so 400kV peak sounds legit.
I used to have one. so called 500kV module, I tied one end to ground, the other to a rubber insulated cable hung in the middle of a room.
Needless to say, while watching the light show, half of electronics in the room froze, and that's just pure awesomeness.

I'm sure you jest. You know if you actually stacked ten of them and used decent insulation maybe? I can get more than 1.5cm out of this thing but 15+cm no way.

Having said that I've only used low voltage batteries. The 2 x 1.5V alkalines will work like in Clive's video but only provide enough current to have a low frequency spark. A random old 18650 has plenty of current and gives a really good constant blaze. The youtube "stun gun" videos go outside of the 3V-6V specs and use a 9V PP3 which clearly hasn't the current capability of a few 18650's.

Has that scary monobrow electroboom guy played with these cheap modules of death yet?
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 11:12:03 AM »
I'm sure you jest. You know if you actually stacked ten of them and used decent insulation maybe? I can get more than 1.5cm out of this thing but 15+cm no way.

There are 2 types of HV stun gun modules, AC and DC. The DC ones are usually up to 50kV, while the AC ones are always 100kV+, at least the ones I've seen (at 6V input).
The AC ones are basically air gap switch pulse generators driving pulse xfmrs, so   DC stage boosts voltage to ~2kV, stored in a 630V CBB capacitor (yes, for short term operation, they can hold 2kV). Then voltage reached a certain air gap breakdown voltage, energy is dumped to a second pulse xfmr through air gap, and typical turns ratio is 1:100, so 2kV becomes 200kV.
I've seen in real life these modules drawing electric bolts across 5cm~20cm, depending on module and input voltage. Some high voltage ones are so powerful that the seam between module plastic and output leads being filled with silicone rubber to prevent electricity from pulse xfmr to leak out and arc right out of module.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 01:07:46 PM »
I'm only getting around 2.5cm arc. More or any insulation between contacts and I can hear hissing and sizzling, and around that range I can barely see a faint arc trying to pop. I expect it will arc and burn a hole in its internal insulation. The module is potted.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 02:45:54 PM »
I'm only getting around 2.5cm arc. More or any insulation between contacts and I can hear hissing and sizzling, and around that range I can barely see a faint arc trying to pop. I expect it will arc and burn a hole in its internal insulation. The module is potted.

Hissing instead of clicking means it doesn't have a pulse xfmr and air gap system. It's either voltage multiplied DC output or AC output. If it's DC, beware that the internal cap may hold some nasty charge after being powered off. This can be used to test if it's a DC module or AC module, but this is definitely not pulse AC module.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 11:35:27 PM »
While trying to get longer arcs through other organic materials, the module seemed to be getting weaker and finally died. It ended up not being able to arc just a few millimeters and the HV wire ends burst into smoke and I suspect the input is taking much more current.  :-BROKE

Well, it was much more satisfying than a Starbucks. Maybe I'll try to peel it apart.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 01:30:30 AM »
400kV is also ludicrous. It's in the 10's of kV. Though I do believe it's more than 30kV as that was the old LOPT CRT voltage on old TV's and they never gave out anything like as nasty as this thing!

These things can easily draw arcs of 15+cm, so 400kV peak sounds legit.
Once you have an arc, it will conduct much better than air. Plasma and all that stuff. I saw a 750KV arc, and they could increase the distance to some 1.5m after it started arcing. Pretty scary actually.

But these are chinese volts. They are less than western ones. Like chinese mAh.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 01:32:09 AM by NANDBlog »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 05:09:58 AM »
400kV is also ludicrous. It's in the 10's of kV. Though I do believe it's more than 30kV as that was the old LOPT CRT voltage on old TV's and they never gave out anything like as nasty as this thing!

These things can easily draw arcs of 15+cm, so 400kV peak sounds legit.
Once you have an arc, it will conduct much better than air. Plasma and all that stuff. I saw a 750KV arc, and they could increase the distance to some 1.5m after it started arcing. Pretty scary actually.

But these are chinese volts. They are less than western ones. Like chinese mAh.

You need an initial peak to draw arc in cold air, don't you. If not having 400kV peak, how can it initially breakdown cold air?
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 08:29:32 AM »
400kV is also ludicrous. It's in the 10's of kV. Though I do believe it's more than 30kV as that was the old LOPT CRT voltage on old TV's and they never gave out anything like as nasty as this thing!

These things can easily draw arcs of 15+cm, so 400kV peak sounds legit.
Once you have an arc, it will conduct much better than air. Plasma and all that stuff. I saw a 750KV arc, and they could increase the distance to some 1.5m after it started arcing. Pretty scary actually.

But these are chinese volts. They are less than western ones. Like chinese mAh.

You need an initial peak to draw arc in cold air, don't you. If not having 400kV peak, how can it initially breakdown cold air?

Here is a video someone testing it. At 3 cm it doesnt arc over. Air has 30KV/cm strength, but with these probe shapes, it will be actually a lot lower (corona effect). So you either have an entirely different module or anyone on youtube received one which is faulty.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 08:47:48 AM »
To be fair, that test was using the device at different gaps as isolated tests rather than starting the test at a close gap and initiating the spark and then gradually moving the gap apart.

I have been looking around for my shitty poundworld plastic calipers I could tape the HV leads to and then slowly winding them apart.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 11:02:03 AM »
Wouldn't a Jacob's ladder do the trick?

That's what I would do with one.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 06:08:11 PM »
To be fair, that test was using the device at different gaps as isolated tests rather than starting the test at a close gap and initiating the spark and then gradually moving the gap apart.

I have been looking around for my shitty poundworld plastic calipers I could tape the HV leads to and then slowly winding them apart.
That's my point. You need about 90KV to arc over 3cm. You need less voltage to arc over, say 1cm, and then increase the arc to 3cm.
 

Offline Hero999

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2017, 06:28:02 PM »
While trying to get longer arcs through other organic materials, the module seemed to be getting weaker and finally died. It ended up not being able to arc just a few millimeters and the HV wire ends burst into smoke and I suspect the input is taking much more current.  :-BROKE
They're not designed to be operated open circuit. The insulation isn't rated to withstand the unloaded output voltage, so it arced over and short circuited.
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 07:39:41 PM »
Wouldn't a Jacob's ladder do the trick?

That's what I would do with one.
That won't work. You'll need to push significant power into the arc to get hot enough to rise. Many people use a MOT, having the problem that with its 2kV output it isn't easy to start the arc, I've tried a 100:1 (10kV:100V) measurement transformer from a 10kV substation in reverse (http://wunderkis.de/britzel/), but I've to put about 80Vpp square wave into the transformer to start the arc and about 15App to sustain the arc (voltage will be lower then, still a few 100Watts are required to sustain the arc in a jacobs ladder). I don't think that these modules can deliver this amount of power.
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Offline Assafl

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Re: ideas for 400kV modules
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 03:09:02 AM »
It can be seen from that video it doesn't really sustain the Arc. It just pulses new arcs every so often.
 


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