if you are a beginner...

[vallywally5]

hello my unknown friends,

if you are a beginner what oscilloscope you'll buy ?  conditions :

- for hobby (ham utility)
- enough monney (1000 pounds)
- new/used
-or maybe a spectrum analyzer

 thanks

[janoc]

There are plenty of "Which oscilloscope should I buy" threads around, just search the forum.

Spectrum analyzer you are not likely to need if you are only starting (or more likely - not have the money for - even old used ones still go for $1500-$2000 ...).  Get a decent scope instead and either use the FFT function on it or capture the data on an USB stick and analyze it on the PC. It is less "real-time" than a real spectrum analyzer but you can do a lot more e.g. in Matlab or with something like Python.

[tggzzz]

As jaonc said, read the posts on the forum, and then you will be able to ask interesting questions that can be answered.

First work out what you need to measure. Then choose the best tool for that.

Hams "work" in the frequency domain, where low noise, wide dynamic range and low distortion are very important. Scopes are a poor fit for each of those attributes; spectrum analysers are a better fit.

[vallywally5]

  many thanks for your answer

  I don't understand the type/name  of oscilloscope, do you ?

  you said nothing   (I have search engines , I want an answer not words )
   

[Rerouter]

If you are a beginner, go to your local ham meetups, get familiar with which tools the other members use, and once your familiar with them, you can better define what will suite your needs.

any of us saying to get a 100Mhz rigol, while good for an electronics beginner may not meet the same criteria as for Ham activities such as tuning filters, and following modulation / demodulation paths. this is more the role of a spectrum analyser, but these still tend to cost significantly more than beginner level scopes.

Oscilloscope FFT displays of spectrum may get you by, but i personally have not even got a DSO, nor do I do ham activities, so I cannot answer with your limited requirements

The best thing you can do to get a solid answer is spec out what you need to measure, with this knowledge, people without ham experience can then chime in.

[vallywally5]

 I understand that is very difficult to give an answer.

 Please close the topic,

 (I read some books about search engines )

 Many thanks.

[tggzzz]

(I have search engines , I want an answer not words )

So, you want us to spend our valuable time repeating answers that are already there. Not a chance: do your own homework.

Or alternatively, if you want an answer, get a Tektronix MDO4104C+MDO4SA6, or a Tektronix 2435. (N.B. anybody arguing against those would be missing the point!)

[bd139]

tgzzz: he only has two kidneys or perhaps one if he's unlucky. I don't think that's enough to buy a MDO4104C 

[vallywally5]

   and if I want somethig like

   Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002
 
   what do you say ?

[bd139]

Ok lets start giving some sensible advice. I see ham mentioned so I'll assume this is going to be for RF use.

Buy what you NEED. Tell us why you need a scope and what you expect to gain from it and we'll let you know if that's a good idea and what scopes are suitable.

The problem with a scope is that for RF use, the time domain instruments aren't generally very good unless you start paying real money. The FFT function on them is a bad substitute for proper tools.

Personally if I had 1000 quid to blow, which I don't, I'd buy a second hand Agilent spectrum analyser and a Tektronix 24xx scope with at least 200MHz of bandwidth. Hopefully if you're lucky you'll have some money left over for cables, terminators, attenuators etc which are rather important!

[Mjolinor]

Buy broken and fix. No better solution than that in any number of searches.

I have several network and spectrum analysers and they are rarely used. My S parameter test set and network analyser which I bought new, have not been out of the box for over five years.

[bd139]

Buy and fix is an option. You'll learn something. Here's my thread on fixing a Tektronix 475. 200MHz scope so far for about £60 of expenditure:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tektronix-475-repair-assistance/msg1323808/

Disclaimer: you need a scope to fix a scope and some experience so YMMV.

[chris_leyson]

I was going to suggest a second hand radio comms test set, there's a Marconi 2955 on ebay for £600. You get a spectrum analyzer and signal generator for that price but the scope is only 50kHz BW.

[rstofer]

The Rigol DS1054Z is popular for hobbyists but usually for non-ham related work.  The 100 MHz bandwidth will cover up to 6m but is well short of 2m if you wanted to see the carrier waveform.  I haven't been impressed with the built in FFT but it could be User Error.  Pulling the raw data into Matlab may be more useful but I haven't tried it.

The new Siglent SDS1204X-E, when it is finally released, will be 4 channels up to 200 MHz.  That takes care of the 2m frequency.  Keep track of user tautech over in the Test Equipment forum - he is a distributor for Siglent in New Zealand and keeps a pretty good eye on what Siglent is doing.

I would suspect that radio amateurs have gotten by without DSOs for the very reason that their signals are continuous functions (the modulating signal could be a continuous tone).  If that is true, there are a lot of used higher bandwidth analog scopes available.  I bought a used 350 MHz Tektronix 485 for about $200 about 12 years ago.  It has NONE of the capabilities of a modern DSO but it does have a lot of bandwidth.

As I watch w2aew's videos, I notice that he is using a high end analog scope (mostly).  His channel might prove interesting to you.  Some of his material is related to amateur radio and and some is related to electronics fundamentals and these videos are excellent!

You need to nail down what you expect the scope to do.  I have no interest in radio but I do expect to be able to decode serial IO and watch digital signals at reasonable frequencies.  For me, 4 channels is a nice feature.  Sure, I got along with 2 channels all my life but 4 is really nice for decoding SPI.  This is probably not necessary for amateur radio.

Tradeoffs, always tradeoffs...

[tggzzz]

   and if I want somethig like

   Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002
 
   what do you say ?

Why haven't you bought it? Why don't you use normal punctuation?

N.B. that is an answer to your overly terse question; it is not advice.

[tggzzz]

Hopefully if you're lucky you'll have some money left over for cables, terminators, attenuators etc which are rather important!

Yes indeed. All those are available cheaply at hamfests

[tooki]

hello my unknown friends,

if you are a beginner what oscilloscope you'll buy ?  conditions :

- for hobby (ham utility)
- enough monney (1000 pounds)
- new/used
-or maybe a spectrum analyzer

 thanks

Every few days someone comes and asks “I’m a beginner. Which scope should I get?”

It’s been discussed a thousand times. We don’t need to answer it again, and you could already have your answer if you simply went and searched.

Replying with annoyance and 3-word answers isn’t going to make people help you, it’s just going to piss them off.

[grifftech]

dso-138 kit

[Brumby]

dso-138 kit

For anyone wondering .... that is a joke.  Literally.  Have a laugh and think nothing more of it.


For a serious answer to the OP, this is the best I have seen here:

If you are a beginner, go to your local ham meetups, get familiar with which tools the other members use, and once your familiar with them, you can better define what will suite your needs.

[janoc]

You don't get a ham ready scope for 1000 pounds. Ham radio can go up to a couple hundreds MHz, you need at least a 500MHz BW scope.

Sorry, that's absolute nonsense.

If he is going to play with DIY kit on HF, any old 20-50MHz scope would be plenty already - most likely the first attempts would be some crystal driven radios for 80 or 40 meters or some BitX kit anyway. A 100MHz Rigol is a luxury for many hams I know. Spectrum analyzers even more so, given the prices. Very few hams have one (or can afford one). And people get by just fine.

You may just have to improvise a little, for example using that FFT in Matlab/Python. Or use an SDR radio ($20 dongle) and some free software with a nice waterfall display to check for splatter (or, more likely you will be told rather quickly on band if your signal isn't clean!). Which is pretty much all most hams would need a spectrum analyzer for - the remaining ones that know how to use it for other things also know whether or not they really need it (and can afford it).

He didn't say what exactly he wants to do but beginners are not likely to start homebrewing gear for the 2m band or higher, that requires both some experience and equipment. So why exactly would one need a 500MHz scope for getting started in ham radio?

(btw, even 2m is doable with the 100MHz Rigol - the frontend is usable to some 150MHz, even higher if you can put up with some attenuation. Certainly not ideal, but possible if you just want a quick check of the signal).

[bd139]

+1 agree.

Incidentally I built a 2m receiver with a counter and a DMM and an RF probe. Total gear cost was about £30.

[Brumby]

(btw, even 2m is doable with the 100MHz Rigol - the frontend is usable to some 150MHz, even higher if you can put up with some attenuation. Certainly not ideal, but possible if you just want a quick check of the signal).

+1

My own personal experience on this was checking the output of a 27MHz transmitter for a RC vehicle.  At the time, all I had was a 15MHz Hitachi CRO - but hooking up the transmitter to the scope, I was able to see the carrier modulation respond to the operation of the controls.  Sure, the level was down and uncalibrated, but I didn't need quantitative measurement - just a qualitative observation.

Knowing how to work past the published "limitations" relies on you understanding your instrument well enough to do so.  An example of which is knowing what you can do on a CRO is not necessarily doable on a DSO.

[jacklee]

that depends on if you are rich 

[tggzzz]

Incidentally I built a 2m receiver with a counter and a DMM and an RF probe. Total gear cost was about £30.

But you couldn't do that for a 2m transmitter!

[bd139]

Incidentally I built a 2m receiver with a counter and a DMM and an RF probe. Total gear cost was about £30.

But you couldn't do that for a 2m transmitter!

No I’d use an absorption wavemeter too

You can get away with some proper rancid old cack if you understand it to some degree. My father was a ham in the 1950s and he used a home brew voltmeter and GDO and that was it. Clearly standards have to be better than that now but do we need them to be £1000+ better?