Author Topic: integrated power amplifier 700kHz  (Read 7690 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« on: January 16, 2017, 10:42:54 pm »
Hi all,

do you know if there exists and where could I find an integrated (or small) power amplifier for signals around 700kHz?
I am using a very big/heavy one for a prototype but I want to miniaturize my circuit.

Thank you
 

Offline tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7357
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX product design
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 11:02:17 pm »
Can you specify power and voltage?
Otherwise, APEX makes power amplifiers.
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 11:25:35 pm »
first of all thank you.

I am working with voltage values varying from 1V peak-to-peak up to 2V peak-to-peak. I have no idea what values I can expect in output of such a small amplifier. Tents? hundreds of the input value?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13726
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 12:18:37 am »
output voltage is meaningless unless you specify the load. a 74HC device will do 5Vp-p easily but that's probably not what you're looking for.
We can't help you without more information.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 12:58:59 am »
the load varies between 500\$\Omega\$ and 2k\$\Omega\$... let's say 1.5 k\$\Omega\$ is a good value
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 02:04:32 pm »
probably 100x voltage gain is a little too high, but around 40-50 would be better, and probably easier to find (?). Also the cost is not a problem
 

Offline tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7357
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX product design
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 03:37:04 pm »
probably 100x voltage gain is a little too high, but around 40-50 would be better, and probably easier to find (?). Also the cost is not a problem
You can easily reduce the requirements, if you add a preamplifier to the circuit. Just have a general purpose opamp amplify the 1V signal by 10-15, running from a +/-15V supply, so the power amplifier does not need to be that accurate (offset) or optimize the bandwidth or anything like that.
 

Offline edavid

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 05:18:09 pm »
Your stated requirements of 50-100V PP, 700kHz, 1.5Kohm don't really make sense.

At 700kHz, a capacitance of 200pF has a reactance of 1.1Kohm.  There aren't many real loads that can tolerate 50V+ and have capacitance that low.

What kind of load are you driving?
What is your actual load voltage requirement?
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 07:39:08 pm »
thank you edavid. I am driving a small piezoelectric transducer (PZT) for ultrasounds. I am trying to drive it with a high voltage value because I have a high attenuation of the ultrasonic signal

So basically I have a signal generator to drive the PZT, bust since the maximum amplitude of the signals that my generator supports is too small I need to amplify it before applying it to the PZT.
I know that the PZT has a resistance R=1.5k\$\Omega\$
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 07:48:16 pm by raff5184 »
 

Offline edavid

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 08:05:16 pm »
I know that the PZT has a resistance R=1.5k\$\Omega\$

That is unlikely.  A PZT is almost a pure capacitance.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 08:07:37 pm by edavid »
 
The following users thanked this post: raff5184

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13726
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 08:33:25 pm »
Pzts are a complex load that changes with load
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6714
  • Country: nl
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 08:41:34 pm »
thank you edavid. I am driving a small piezoelectric transducer (PZT) for ultrasounds.

What kind of signal? If it can be semi-square wave you can simply use totem poles.
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 08:59:29 pm »
What kind of signal? If it can be semi-square wave you can simply use totem poles.
[/quote]

just a sinusoid
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 09:02:16 pm »
I know that the PZT has a resistance R=1.5k\$\Omega\$

That is unlikely.  A PZT is almost a pure capacitance.

Than I must be wrong, sorry. This is what I have, I thought that real was the internal resistance
 

Offline qno

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 422
  • Country: nl
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 09:21:46 pm »
Why not use a transformer?
Why spend money I don't have on things I don't need to impress people I don't like?
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6714
  • Country: nl
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 09:22:51 pm »
just a sinusoid

The sonic output will be sinusoid any way, it's a pretty good filter.
 

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 09:31:54 pm »
Why not use a transformer?
because they are too bulky (?)  :-//
 

Offline retrolefty

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1648
  • Country: us
  • measurement changes behavior
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 09:42:25 pm »
I know that the PZT has a resistance R=1.5k\$\Omega\$

That is unlikely.  A PZT is almost a pure capacitance.

Than I must be wrong, sorry. This is what I have, I thought that real was the internal resistance

 No that verical axis is Z the impedance, mostly due to capacitance reactance, not a DC resistance.
 
The following users thanked this post: raff5184

Offline raff5184Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 10:55:18 pm »
No that verical axis is Z the impedance, mostly due to capacitance reactance, not a DC resistance.

Ok, so from my figure, which is value of the load do I have to consider to evaluate the power that I am transferring to the PZT?
 

Offline edavid

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Country: us
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 02:05:58 am »
It looks like you need a resonant driver to make it work.
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6714
  • Country: nl
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2017, 04:07:28 am »
It looks like you need a resonant driver to make it work.

Isn't the piezo transducer alone enough for that? Simply generate a square wave signal of the same polarity as the measured current through the transducer, you get ZCS and automatic resonance tracking AFAICS (just need to get it going before the control loop can take over).
 

Offline dmills

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2093
  • Country: gb
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2017, 11:38:15 am »
Ah, driving high frequency sonar transducers, been there done that.

The usual thing is to use a tuned transformer (Resonate the secondary winding inductance with the transducer fixed capacitance) as part of a fifth order or so matching network, then drive the whole thing with a square wave, the transducer will do a good job of turning it into a sine in the working fluid. Note that your driver will probably have to deal with a load that is not in fact resistive, active snubbers can be your friends.

These transformers can be small as the duty cycle is usually negligible, but the voltages can be huge so kapton tape is a good thing, as is litz wire to keep the Q where you want it.

Usually the input match is some form of L network, often with deliberate series resistance to make the bandwidth a little wider, do make sure you work from a G/B plot done in water, they measure **very** differently in air.

Are you sure that plot is impedance rather then admittance? I would expect the resonance to be a low impedance as the devices model as series resonant devices with an annoyingly large shunt cap and the acoustic radiation resistance in the series arm.

73 Dan.
 

Online Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19477
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2017, 06:55:11 pm »
Why not use a transformer?
because they are too bulky (?)  :-//
How small does it have to be?

A 700kHz transformer with a power rating of a few Watts, isn't very big.
 

Online BrianHG

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7720
  • Country: ca
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2017, 07:11:17 pm »
Why not use a transformer?
because they are too bulky (?)  :-//
How small does it have to be?

A 700kHz transformer with a power rating of a few Watts, isn't very big.

In fact, how much you want to bet that a cheap 500khz-1Mhz 10 watt 12v wall-mount switching supply's tiny transformer could be used in reverse to drive the PZT.
Though I cant say anything about the efficiency...
 

Online Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19477
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: integrated power amplifier 700kHz
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 09:13:55 am »
Why not use a transformer?
because they are too bulky (?)  :-//
How small does it have to be?

A 700kHz transformer with a power rating of a few Watts, isn't very big.

In fact, how much you want to bet that a cheap 500khz-1Mhz 10 watt 12v wall-mount switching supply's tiny transformer could be used in reverse to drive the PZT.
Though I cant say anything about the efficiency...
It should work, but you might have to adjust the input voltage to give the correct output voltage.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf