Iron upgrade, new learning curve?

[technix]

I just ditched my old non-temperature-regulated soldering iron in favor of an ATTEN 936 (a Hakko 936 clone I bought for about US$40) but I find its operation very different from that old copper-tipped iron. Is there any advices for this transition?

[Simon]

whats the problem ? the material of the tip should not make much difference.

[technix]

whats the problem ? the material of the tip should not make much difference.

My old iron tip can hold a copious amount of molten solder on it and have a hell lot of thermal mass, so the procedure of soldering SMT components are usually let the tip hold some solder, place the component on the board, touch the joint with the tip of the iron (during which the big thermal mass will almost instantly bring both the cap/pin of the component and the pad up to the right temperature and the held solder just flows to form a nice solder joint) and then proceed with the other pin. However this wears the tip down very quickly. Also if I accidentally got too much solder on a joint I can just scoop away the excess solder using that big heavy tip.

The 936's tip does not hold solder at all and don't have much thermal mass, so my old tricks no longer works.

[Simon]

you may need to turn the heat up a bit and hope that the feedback system is fast enough.

[Chris C]

You could grow a third hand.  Giving you one to hold the SMD in place, one to hold the iron, and one to hold the solder since the iron won't do it.

I tried and couldn't, so even if I'm primarily using solder on a spool, I find myself using solder paste for the first SMD pad.  Just a bit, dabbed on with a toothpick.  Then one hand holds the SMD (or tool holding it), the other the iron.  Once that joint cools, the SMD isn't going anywhere, so I have a hand free to hold solder and do the other pads.  I can come back to the first pad last and apply a bit more solder if needed.

[continuo]

Well, tinnig the tip and carrying the molten solder to the joint isn't exactly the recommended procedure, at least not without the use of additional flux at the joint. There are a lot of smd soldering tutorials on youtube, it may be helpful to watch a few of these 

[jitter]

First of all, getting the right tip for the job is crucial. Too big and it won't fit, too small and it won't solder properly (the thermal mass you mention).
Second, the right temperature. Ballpark: 325 C for leaded and 350 C for unleaded (or should that be leadfree?  )
Third: the right solder wire gauge. Thin for small, thicker for bigger parts (in that respect I disagree with Dave of just using thin gauge for everything).
Fourth: the component must lie flat before you solder it.
Fifth: the only proper solder join is made when you feed in the wire during soldering. Putting solder on the tip and then try to solder with that is not a good practice. The one thing that you need for a proper join (the flux inside the wire) has lost its effectivity before you can even solder that way.

Wen I have to replace an SMD resistor, and should I choose to use the iron and not hot air, then I remove the old one, remove the existing solder from both pads and apply a bit of new solder to only one of the pads. Then I place the new resistor on the pads and touch the pad with solder until it melts for a join that's good enough to hold it in place. This way the resistor lies flat. Then I solder the other side and redo the first side for a quality join. Job done.

[technix]

First of all, getting the right tip for the job is crucial. Too big and it won't fit, too small and it won't solder properly (the thermal mass you mention).
Second, the right temperature. Ballpark: 325 C for leaded and 350 C for unleaded (or should that be leadfree?  )
Third: the right solder wire gauge. Thin for small, thicker for bigger parts (in that respect I disagree with Dave of just using thin gauge for everything).
Fourth: the component must lie flat before you solder it.
Fifth: the only proper solder join is made when you feed in the wire during soldering. Putting solder on the tip and then try to solder with that is not a good practice. The one thing that you need for a proper join (the flux inside the wire) has lost its effectivity before you can even solder that way.

Wen I have to replace an SMD resistor, and I choose to use the iron and not hot air, the I remove the old one, remove the existing solder from both pads and apply a bit of new solder to only one of the pads. Then I place the new resistor on the pads and touch the pad with solder until it melts for a join that's good enough to hold it in place. This way the resistor lies flat. Then I solder the other side and redo the first side for a quality join. Job done.

I use RoHS thin-guage solder only, and my solder does not have a resin core, so there is no difference between running the wire through and tinning the tip and dip later. Big tip trouble was very prominent when I was assembling my M102 and M171 boards as it features some very tightly packed chips.

[bitwelder]

First of all, getting the right tip for the job is crucial. Too big and it won't fit, too small and it won't solder properly (the thermal mass you mention).

And on the subject of getting the right tip, buying a genuine Hakko tip might help as well.

[jitter]

IMHO, flux cored (be it resin or otherwise) solder is the only suitable solder for electronics. So much so that I would NEVER consider using any other type of solder.

Usually, the flux core of solder wire is of the so called "no clean" type meaning you can leave the residue on. Sure, it looks a bit messy, but has no adverse affects.
Add on flux, gel or fluid, usually must be cleaned afterwards.

In my job I mainly deal with sensitive measurement instruments with high impedance (GOhms, TOhms). Add on flux wreaks havoc to that because it causes leakage, so I avoid it as much as possible. In my experience, the flux core of no clean solder wire has no discernable effect on these instruments.

My advice would be to get yourself flux cored solder.

Add on flux is useful for soldering fine pitch ICs to prevent short circuits. You can use a hollow tip and use the drag method.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I have the same station (Hakko 936 clone), and I can confirm it doesn't hold solder very well. I'm pretty sure this is all due to the tip construction, I'd recommend getting an original tip (not one supplied with a clone unit) - hook style works the best for me (J-shape). Also, Tip Tinner compound works wonders: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MULTICORE-LOCTITE-MM01921-/21-1075

The other option is just getting a $40 hot air station!

[MarkF]

I just bought a HAKKO FX888D and have similar questions.  Being use to a 25 watt pencil iron, I'm having trouble selecting the temperature.  From what I've read, I should be in the 315^oC to 400^oC.  I have always used leaded flux core solder in varies sizes.  Never tried the lead-free solder.

As far as techniques, the following videos might help:
     and 

[rob77]

325 C for leaded and 350 C for unleaded (or should that be leadfree?  )

isn't that a bit high ? many components have max ratings in datasheets  320C for max 3 seconds.

i'm using 260-280 for leaded, for sensitive parts even less 250-260C and for lead-free i'm cranking up to 280-320. using a solomon SL-20 iron  - it's a well built soldering station , but it's "ancient" in terms of design.

[MarkF]

i'm using 260-280 for leaded, for sensitive parts even less 250-260C and for lead-free i'm cranking up to 280-320. using a solomon SL-20 iron  - it's a well built soldering station , but it's "ancient" in terms of design.

The FX888D manual specifies 250^oC for tip maintenance.  I took that to mean that temp. is sufficient to inspect and tin the tip but too low for soldering.

[jitter]

325 C for leaded and 350 C for unleaded (or should that be leadfree?  )

isn't that a bit high ? many components have max ratings in datasheets  320C for max 3 seconds.

i'm using 260-280 for leaded, for sensitive parts even less 250-260C and for lead-free i'm cranking up to 280-320. using a solomon SL-20 iron  - it's a well built soldering station , but it's "ancient" in terms of design.

At work I use JBC irons that have a pretty precise control over the temperature of the tip. This is also checked every year with a special tool (ISO requirement).
At home I have a Solomon SL-20 too, and I would set that one lower, indeed. But my guess is that the actual temp of the tip might be some tens of degrees off...

325 C and 350 C are ballpark figures. In the training we get, usually they say that you must use the lowest possible temp to get a good quality join within a short enough time. Of course that depends on several factors, so I just stick to those ballpark figures and only deviate from it when neccessary.

3 seconds at 320 C is much more time than you need. With practice and experience, you will find a temperature and method that allows you to do most joins in 1 s (2 s tops).
I'd rather solder for 1 s at 350 C than for 3 at 320 C. The end-result is that the former might actually lead to less heating of the component than the latter.

Only joins on which large amounts of copper take away the heat might take longer, but then the heat is taken away...

[rob77]

i'm using 260-280 for leaded, for sensitive parts even less 250-260C and for lead-free i'm cranking up to 280-320. using a solomon SL-20 iron  - it's a well built soldering station , but it's "ancient" in terms of design.

The FX888D manual specifies 250^oC for tip maintenance.  I took that to mean that temp. is sufficient to inspect and tin the tip but too low for soldering.

if the solder wets the soldered surface then the temperature is OK - saying 250C is too low is not right ... especially for low temperature solders

[MarkF]

i'm using 260-280 for leaded, for sensitive parts even less 250-260C and for lead-free i'm cranking up to 280-320. using a solomon SL-20 iron  - it's a well built soldering station , but it's "ancient" in terms of design.

The FX888D manual specifies 250^oC for tip maintenance.  I took that to mean that temp. is sufficient to inspect and tin the tip but too low for soldering.

if the solder wets the soldered surface then the temperature is OK - saying 250C is too low is not right ... especially for low temperature solders

That sounds like a special case and not the norm???

[jitter]

Low temperature solders are a special case. In one of the vids Dave explains that this kind of solder is used to remove hard to desolder components but that that low temp solder is not to be used for a normal join (brittle).

[MarkF]

I just saw that video.  He removed some large SMD chips to demonstrate reworking.  That solder was specifically for de-soldering.
In his first soldering demo video, he suggested 350^oC to 400^oC.  With special case minimums of 280^oC.

[rob77]

ok , then go ahead and solder at 400C at that temperature you significantly reduce the lifespan of your tip and heating element. not talking about allowed temp range for parts (usually upto 320-350C max) .. further issues are lifting PCB tracks and burning/oxidizing the solder.

[continuo]

A quick check on the technical datasheet of your solderwire may give you some hint on correct working temperature. I'm currently using Interflux IF14 63/37 (leaded) and they recommend 320...360 °C

http://www.interflux.com/sites/default/files/documents/en/TD%20IF%2014-06-09-14_0.pdf

[rob77]

and quick check on stuff i'm soldering says 260C max 1,6mm from package  - for SOIC the 1,6mm from package is  pretty much the end of the lead - so no temperature gradient game possible....  for DIP (much less common nowadays) you have some room because of the pin length and the temp gradient (you touch the end of the lead with 300C and you're still on the safe side1,6mm from the package for a second or so...)

in fact i don't care if you solder with a propane torch at 500C or whatever you like or works for you...... i'm just saying the 300+C is a bit too high for many components.

[jitter]

... i'm just saying the 300+C is a bit too high for many components.

Well, in my 15 years in industrial electronics, I've been consistently taught to hand solder at 325 C (Pb) and 350 C (LF) in several solder courses. As I said before, ballpark figures.
But in those years, the only failures I caused on new components were with hot air. Not a single one with an iron set to 325 or 350 C.

However, a solder wave must not be so hot. We desolder DIP packages and similar on a small wave set to 250 C (Pb). The huge amount of solder makes this possible whereas the thermal mass of the tip doesn't.

[amyk]

Especially with the cheaper irons, you should check the temperature calibration, since it could be far off. Note also that an overly loose tip or otherwise poor thermal contact between the tip and heater will make it difficult to maintain the right temperature.

[Monkeh]

i'm just saying the 300+C is a bit too high for many components.

Bullshit, standard iron temperature is around 350C.