Is John Bird a scan author?

[Simon]

I once bought a maths book written by John Bird. To be honest I found it a bit too complicated for me as it seemed more like a revision book full of examples and questions and very little thoroughly explained theory although I did find it of some use when my course material seemed a bit patchy. My tutor advised me to buy another book by John Bird which I duly did so having spent in total nearly £70 on two maths books I then discovered that the second book recommended by my tutor actually contained the entirety of the first book with some extra chapters.

I am again struggling with my course As I Am Finding the explanations on RLC circuits a bit patchy. So I thought I would look up and see what John Bird has to offer on Amazon as I know he does do books on many engineering subjects and electronics. And yet again I have found two books one covering some of what I want to know but not the whole of it and another one covering everything the other book does and the rest of what I need to know for a mere 7 pounds more.

Why produce this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-Electronic-Principles-Technology-5th/dp/0415662850/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478294594&sr=8-1&keywords=john+bird#reader_0415662850 and then produce this other book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0415662869/ref=pd_luc_rh_bxgy_01_01_t_img_lh?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1#reader_0415662869 when the second book contains the entirety of the first book, check the contents.

Does anybody else have any experience of John Bird and his very peculiar way of presenting textbooks whereby you can end up buying the same book twice if you are not aware of this little scam he has going? Is this common in the "industry" I thought if somebody wrote a book about something they wrote a book about something and then if they wrote another book about something else it is actually about something else. The first book is £28, the second book is 35. Considering the second book is nearly twice the length of the first book and covers a lot more information it obviously makes sense by the second book as at an extra 25% you get about an extra 80% material.

[Cliff Matthews]

Not sure about scam but Elsevier Pub the honorable Bird has over 100 tech books. Dang if I could remember that many things in my house without repeating myself.. myself.. Stack overflow!

[rstofer]

From the Amazon description, one book is aimed at technicians and the other at engineering students.  There may be some difference in the depth of math used.
Your text books are so cheap, I would buy them both.

A similar example of a US textbook:
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Electric-Circuits-Charles-Alexander/dp/0073380571/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1478356189&sr=8-11&keywords=electrical+circuit+theory

It goes for nearly $250.

[vodka]

From the Amazon description, one book is aimed at technicians and the other at engineering students.  There may be some difference in the depth of math used.
Your text books are so cheap, I would buy them both.

A similar example of a US textbook:
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Electric-Circuits-Charles-Alexander/dp/0073380571/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1478356189&sr=8-11&keywords=electrical+circuit+theory

It goes for nearly $250.

Here , like you don't go with careful , the publishers take off  you the eyes(100€-250€). Now , the solution more cheapest for achieving  this kind book is going to Public or Univeritary Library , getting a book and literrally "FUSILARLO" with a camera or scanner.

[tggzzz]

Publons are not restricted to the academic world. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_publishable_unit 

[Simon]

Ultimately it might be down to the publishers deciding that they want to try and make more money. No if you look at the contents of that book you will find that one book as a whole load of chapters and the other book has the same chapters plus extra chapters so I doubt any modification has been made to the duplicated chapters. I also found this with the maths book I had. The pages are word for word the same it's just there is extra content in some of the books. I would rather buy the complete book but then there is no way of knowing which one is the complete book. Annoyingly I found out about the more complete book because Amazon suggested that I buy the original book with its more complete counterpart and the maths book I already have. So Amazon itself was recommended that I buy two books which effectively were the same book but for the fact that one contained more information.

[grifftech]

I don't think he is scan author, I think you typo-ed

[Cliff Matthews]

I don't think he is scan author, I think you typo-ed

In sheer numbers of posts, Simon's fingers (or speech recognition device) are over worked.. we will forgive.

That mention of "Publons" made for some good reading though, guess the science-world has its own back-scratching going on..
Jee-whiz Wally, I thought peer-review actually means people actually read something more than just an authors name.   

[CatalinaWOW]

Not that it is justified, but Mr. Bird may also be motivated by employment at an academic institution.  Where # of books published correlates with continued employment.  Many books and papers are embellishments, minor extensions or applications to a new area (in the broad sense of "We invented a new poison.  In our original paper we found it worked well on rats.  We have now determined that it also kills carnivores like cats.").  The publisher goes along because he gets to sell new material, the author gets to keep his job with a minimum of extra work, and the institution gets to crow about how prolific their staff is.  A classic self licking ice cream cone.

[Simon]

Not that it is justified, but Mr. Bird may also be motivated by employment at an academic institution.  Where # of books published correlates with continued employment.  Many books and papers are embellishments, minor extensions or applications to a new area (in the broad sense of "We invented a new poison.  In our original paper we found it worked well on rats.  We have now determined that it also kills carnivores like cats.").  The publisher goes along because he gets to sell new material, the author gets to keep his job with a minimum of extra work, and the institution gets to crow about how prolific their staff is.  A classic self licking ice cream cone.

I agree, basically one of his books plagerises another, I don't see why i should be paying 28+35 pounds when I'm only buying the content that £35 gets me, why spend £28 for absolutely nothing.

[Simon]

Not in this case, we are talking identical material with added material being sold as another book, so the "first" book is pointless because for another 25% you get a book with IDENTICAL text and some more.

His mths books are not the easiest read to be honest being very short on explanation and better described as an examples and excercise book.

[Simon]

Not in this case, we are talking identical material with added material being sold as another book, so the "first" book is pointless because for another 25% you get a book with IDENTICAL text and some more.

His mths books are not the easiest read to be honest being very short on explanation and better described as an examples and excercise book.

So you mean the second book's first 75% are identical to the first book and the second book is not sold as a second version of the first book? And the first book actually recommends the second book?

YES!

No the smaller book does not recomend the larger one, but amazon recons that "other people" bought both together (along with a maths book, they always try to get you to buy 3 in one go). So either amazon has some algorithm on autopilot that does not know any different or people are genuinely being mis-sold a book.

[Simon]

Is it Amazon's fault that somebody creates a duplicate book? Any automated algorithm is going to suggest books of a similar nature on the assumption they are not a duplication from the same author. I don't know if the bigger or smaller book tells you about the similarity in contents of the other book, you would not find this out until you have bought both books and wasted your money as I have already done with the maths books. It was only because I have already been screwed once that I was forewarned and I double checked the list of contents. Do I have to check the contents of every single book on Amazon to make sure that one does not directly plagiarise the other despite being by the same author? I am sorry but either Mr Bird or his publisher is dishonest. As it is these books scarcely pass for textbooks at least in the case of the maths book where they are merely an ongoing list of examples and questions for the reader to try themselves with an absolute minimal of explanation as to how the maths works. I don't know if this will be the case for electronics books and I will find out tomorrow when one of them arrives.

[alanb]

This is the downside of buying books online. In the old days I spent many hours in the technical sections of book shops browsing the books and reading to check that the scope and level is what I wanted.

The books were more expensive in real terms but I was much more selective in what I purchased and therefore didn't waste money.

[Mechatrommer]

1) we usually blame the tool instead of make the full use of it.
2) after each teaching session (theory or introduction explanation) i always asked my students.. do you understand? they all say yes. i say no, you dont understand, until you make exercise from working samples. when you can make an exercise on your own without the help or refering back to the working samples or teacher, then only then you really understand the subject.

[Simon]

your point being ?

[keethrax]

Is it Amazon's fault that somebody creates a duplicate book? Any automated algorithm is going to suggest books of a similar nature on the assumption they are not a duplication from the same author. I don't know if the bigger or smaller book tells you about the similarity in contents of the other book, you would not find this out until you have bought both books and wasted your money as I have already done with the maths books. It was only because I have already been screwed once that I was forewarned and I double checked the list of contents. Do I have to check the contents of every single book on Amazon to make sure that one does not directly plagiarise the other despite being by the same author? I am sorry but either Mr Bird or his publisher is dishonest. As it is these books scarcely pass for textbooks at least in the case of the maths book where they are merely an ongoing list of examples and questions for the reader to try themselves with an absolute minimal of explanation as to how the maths works. I don't know if this will be the case for electronics books and I will find out tomorrow when one of them arrives.

Given the exact same two books you can flip your argument on its head: Why not have a trimmed down version for those who don't need the extra theory? That's not a scam, that's a better for the readers. Giving those with lesser needs the info they do need at a discounted rate. Seems pretty cool to me vs having them pay 50% more for additional stuff they don't want or need.

Or, alternatively if they were published in the other order: Why not expand upon an existing book with more theory for those that want it? Leaving the cheaper option in publication vs removing it to only sell the more expensive expanded one is, once again, better for the readers.

But instead you're going full on foaming at the mouth rabid over this. You may want to step back and try to get some perspective. Some people just want an excuse to get all twisted up-. You're not usually like that from what I've read, thus my advice for you to back up and get some perspective. I've read enough of your posts to know your better than this.

[Simon]

both books are in their 7th edition (what a coincidence....) it's not a case of one book treating each topic more deeply than the oher, it's a case of one book having certain topics and the other book have the exact same text (same words - word for word) plus extra chapters. And no the difference is not 50%, you pay 25% more to get 80% more content, so there is no justification on price, it simply means two identical books are being sold, one happens to have more topics covered, now if each book was book 1 and book 2 with no duplication but a sensible division given that the "big" book does run into over 700 pages versus the over 400 of the "small" book then I would not mind paying £20 per book and buying the two if it meant I got more manageable books at 350-400 pages instead of nearly 800 pages all in one book.

[keethrax]

both books are in their 7th edition (what a coincidence....) it's not a case of one book treating each topic more deeply than the oher, it's a case of one book having certain topics and the other book have the exact same text (same words - word for word) plus extra chapters. And no the difference is not 50%, you pay 25% more to get 80% more content, so there is no justification on price, it simply means two identical books are being sold, one happens to have more topics covered, now if each book was book 1 and book 2 with no duplication but a sensible division given that the "big" book does run into over 700 pages versus the over 400 of the "small" book then I would not mind paying £20 per book and buying the two if it meant I got more manageable books at 350-400 pages instead of nearly 800 pages all in one book.

You keep claiming they are both identical, and not identical. You can't have it both ways. One is a cheaper subset of the other. How is this a scam in any way? It's really not complicated, but you've gotten so twisted up over it you can't see straight.

[Simon]

I wouldn't call £28 for a fraction of the content in the one for £35 cheaper, I call it daylight robbery because you will end up needing the complete version before long costing you a total of £63 to buy the same thing twice plus the additional information. as I said i would not mind paying a bit more for the books if booth were neccessary but one is redundant and only slightly cheaper.