Is my new EEVBlog multimeter faulty?

[ebastler]

Whilst I agree, that a fuse, should always be replaced with one of the original type, used by the manufacturer or better, a beginner shouldn't really be measuring circuits which can develop such high fault currents, they'll ever need anything beyond an ordinary glass fuse.

My point is that you never know who else will use that meter in the future, and what they will do with it. (Or what you will do with it, in 5 years, when you are no longer a beginner and have long forgotten about your creative and cost-effective fuse replacement.) Always replace the fuse with whatever is needed to make sure that the meter's indicated safety rating is actually still valid!

Another way to put it -- I believe that there are three levels of expertise:

• Beginner: Does not know what's going on behind the scenes. Does whatever the manual requires (hopefully).
• Self-proclaimed expert: Knows something about the physics behind the scene, and uses creative solutions -- which work, as long as the assumed boundary conditions are met. Trusts himself to always remember and adhere to the assumed boundary conditions. 
• Pro: Knows that, in the real world, he or someone else will misstep at some point in the future, and will use the device outside its limits. Does whatever the manual requires. 

[rstofer]

Any discussion regarding fusing and DMMs always gets heated very quickly.

Whilst I agree, that a fuse, should always be replaced with one of the original type, used by the manufacturer or better, a beginner shouldn't really be measuring circuits which can develop such high fault currents, they'll ever need anything beyond an ordinary glass fuse.

Yes, I see a great future in 5V stuff - maybe 12V if the batteries are small.  Staying completely away from mains is always a good idea.  Limited fault current is another good idea.  A car battery can do a lot of damage if the wrench gets across the posts.

Since Dave is packaging and selling the proper fuses for the Brymen meter (I hope they fit), there is no reason to use a glass fuse or a piece of 30 AWG.

[joeqsmith]

Yes, I see a great future in 5V stuff - maybe 12V if the batteries are small.  Staying completely away from mains is always a good idea.  Limited fault current is another good idea.  A car battery can do a lot of damage if the wrench gets across the posts.

Since Dave is packaging and selling the proper fuses for the Brymen meter (I hope they fit), there is no reason to use a glass fuse or a piece of 30 AWG.

I would guess that 30AWG copper would make a mess of the EEVBLOG meters mA circuit.  One of the fuse jumper experts should try it. I doubt they would cover it under warranty. 

This meter uses the same fuse that I recently tested what I believe are some counterfeit ones.  At 10X the trip current, the one I tested took over 2X time absolute maximum time to open.   The cost of these was around $5.90.  Hard to say if you could damage the EEVBLOG meter using one but why risk it if Dave is selling the proper parts? 


 

[janoc]

do some research or you may believe whatever you want to believe, i cant do anymore help there.

I think the person needing the research is you, not me. Try a glass fuse or a piece of wire in a Fluke or Brymen and then "measure" current of a car battery (or a LiPo) - similar like what the OP did with a smaller battery. And you will see what will happen.

Even expert users will have brainfarts - and the fuse is there to save your bacon in such situation. But if you believe it is there only to line the pockets of Fluke and such I hope your infallibility will protect you instead, because that piece of wire you have replaced the fuse with certainly won't.

[yada]

As to shorting batteries:  That's a really bad idea.  I accidentally shorted a rechargeable Alkaline and the battery caught on fire.

I remember those they were made by rayovac (what were they called?) you could charge them 25 times. Thats when all there was, was nicd's that didn't work in some things.

I know hes a noob but what's the point of measuring a battery on amps? Amps is to see how much the circuit pulls from the battery, not how much the battery has in it, as if there was such a reading. I like how 98237498 people kept saying over and over, "your battery is dead". I would think that would be obvious from the fact that a 9V battery reads 5V.

This reminds me of the threads on the Arduino forum when people cant get it to work the first time and blame defective products. I guess we are so used to shit from China that we just expect it. I know I have bought multiple of the same items on ebay to have every single one be defective. Then they try to not give you your shipping back. They know this stuff doesn't work, and they either mix it in with the working parts or will just sell it hoping you can't be bothered getting a refund. I always call them out on that shit.

[joeqsmith]

the "idiot" doesnt do intentional DMM damaging stuff by sending some nasty pulse stuffs beyond the DMM rating for fun and pleasure, its not his proffesion and wont be willing to waste anymore time, he has had enough fair amount of time playing with it. except if some supplier are willing to send one for free to mythbust the urban legend (well its going to be boring and unspectacular). of course making a proper diy fuse is not simply jumping it out and let the burst bits shorting out another components in the DMM, if there is possibility. if the user dont know how to do it properly he doesnt deserve near any mains source. and giving an impression that a DMM (like Brymen) alone (with a proper HRC fuse) is safe enough for an occasional high voltage tester (thats usually the selling point in the "promotion" youtubes), is just as irresponsible, esp to someone who can mistakenly measure 600V in Amp or Ohm setting. if someone cant decide if 30 AWG wire is suitable or not, but still insist on putting that as a "suitable fuse" or as a strawman argument, then he is not much more in term of brain size. but if the OP is willing to wait order for the proper rated fuse and pay for the shipping cost, then who can stop him from doing the proper thing? dont design electronics its dangerous, just buy them.

Attempting to troll me is fine.  Recommending to a beginner to jumper their fuse but follow that up with " if the user dont know how to do it properly he doesnt deserve near any mains source. "   Personally I am surprised they allow this level of reckless stupidity in the beginners area. 

You should start a post in another area about how to properly jump out a fuse seeing you are the one recommending it. 

[ebastler]

[...] i cant do anymore help there.

So it seems, and that may be for the better.   

[joeqsmith]

who's trolling who? btw just by coincidence, i remember my UT71A amp range is dead few days ago. someone must have been shorted it out again. so since the urban legend, this must be the right time for the fix... this is my second fix. so keep in mind, the 1st blow was the original fuse.. i reused the glass casing to put in the 0.15mm wire, and then blow again, that is few days ago. this is the third fuse fix... the original wire was thicker than my diy fuse istr, since i dont usually do up to 10A range measurement. my DMM is live again thank you no need 2 weeks wait time and 10x the shipping cost for Fluke (read expensive) fuse... in the pics you can see blown bits of copper still intact...

btw, just to get things in context... i'm not a high voltage high energy tester, just an arduino tinkerer, but i'm not stupid enough to poke in the DMM probe into the mains while on Amp or Ohm setting. so i dont have to be fusephobic... my DMM for mains is the light above the ceiling... but i do remember i accidentally probed 12V in ohm range using the meter well i guess i was lucky. ymmv.. and oh wait! that UT71A's fuse is rated 250V but CATIII 1000V rated input (see proofs below), so its highly not recommended for noobs. noobs buy Fluke, the idiots buy china brand.

You blow more fuses unintentionally than I do intentionally.    

To be clear, the 10A fuse was blown but the pictures show the mA fuse missing and the last picture is showing 15mA.  Were both blown?  0.15mm wire would seem a little small for a 10A fuse.  Can you get the full 10A? 

[ebastler]

you just made my day. right i've almost forgotten about it...

Sigh... That's exactly my point; one forgets about these hacks. And one of these days, you will have the need to measure mains power, rather than just Arduinos, and you will use that meter. (Or someone else using your meter will do so. As you have explained and demonstrated, you of course would never be so foolish to measure in the wrong mode or range and blow a fuse...  )

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

[joeqsmith]

That poor meter.   

I would think it would be more difficult to damage the Brymen in the mA range than the A range with the wrong fuse, just because of the fixed low resistance shunt. 

Why use the fuse body for the A and not for the mA fuse?  Can you get the full 10A out of the 0.15mm? 

For fun I tried some 46 copper wire soldered across the face of the counterfeit fuse.  It would open at around 1.5A.   With the same 5A test setup and the time to open was about 18mS or about 3X over what the SIBA data sheet calls for the absolute maximum.   The picture shows the wire from the counterfeit fuse on top,  center is a Belden 38AWG and on the bottom is the 46. The color match is poor but the wire used in the counterfeit fuse is not copper.  It is silver in color and is very soft.   

Did you bother to test your wire before you soldered it onto the low current clips?  Curious how close yours was to the original spec'ed fuse.   

[joeqsmith]

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

  

[Nusa]

It's one thing to suggest replacing original quality fuses with cheap glass fuses from the hardware store. They'll still save the meter for the kind of overloads that most users actually encounter, even if you lose the high-voltage rating on the current scales. I'd call this not-recommended, but acceptable for typical users that never run into high voltage.

Irresponsible is suggesting that someone who is clearly still figuring out what current is, never mind how to measure it, is qualified to make a "suitable" DIY fusing wire selection, proably limiting themselves to the few too-large choices on hand. Odds are they'd end up with something that will make the meter a weaker link than the wire, although it would work until that event.

[yada]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

[P90]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

"Someone"
case closed...   LOL

[joeqsmith]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

It may seem harsh but when it comes to the potential to injure or kill a person, I could care less about hurting someone's feelings.

Even if I wanted to suggest someone try and jump a fuse for what ever the reason, from my little test I don't have any wire that I would recommend that I know for sure would not damage the meter.  Fuse science, it's not just a length of wire. 
 
I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them. 

[james_s]

I will admit that I have put foil around the blown fuse in my Fluke once or twice, I was working on a car, had a brain fart, didn't have another fuse on hand so I did what I had to do to finish the job. I would never suggest anyone else do that though, that falls squarely under the category of "do as I say and not as I do."

[P90]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

It may seem harsh but when it comes to the potential to injure or kill a person, I could care less about hurting someone's feelings.

Even if I wanted to suggest someone try and jump a fuse for what ever the reason, from my little test I don't have any wire that I would recommend that I know for sure would not damage the meter.  Fuse science, it's not just a length of wire. 
 
I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

You mean, "couldn't care less"

[joeqsmith]

At least you could decode it.  Sometimes it's next to impossible. 

[P90]

That's when it's time to hit the bottle...

[IanB]

I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

In the UK at least, plug top fuses to BS1362 are cheaply and widely available. These are ceramic fuses with a breaking capacity of about 6 kA at mains voltage. Although not designed for use in meters, they would at a pinch be vastly better than a low current glass fuse or a piece of wire.

[IanB]

In fact, here is an amusing video of someone using such fuses as a disposable switch. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be replacing fuses so nonchalantly if they cost as much as Fluke multimeter fuses 

https://youtu.be/eA3SDiyMiWU
 

[P90]

I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

In the UK at least, plug top fuses to BS1362 are cheaply and widely available. These are ceramic fuses with a breaking capacity of about 6 kA at mains voltage. Although not designed for use in meters, they would at a pinch be vastly better than a low current glass fuse or a piece of wire.

many lower end multimeters use those "BS" labeled  fuses...

[SeanB]

Thanks, had not seen that Brady video.

[janoc]

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

 

That's called a safe meter - only noobs buy Flukes, everyone else knows that Uni-T makes the best bang  for buck meters on Earth (in more sense than one). So if they put underrated fuses in, it has to be OK, screw the greedy Fluke and stupid Brymen.
 

I wonder whether it has UL cert too (Dave's Brymen does).

[Electro Detective]

Recent Youtube multimeter robustness tests viewed, have me questioning what "best bang for buck" really means

Are we talking value or fireworks, or both?