Is my new EEVBlog multimeter faulty?

[bright_ideas]

Real noob here but does my new EEVBlog multi-meter (few days 0ld just got to try learning it) appear to be broken somehow or am I a real noob  . Be gentle please if you care to explain my pointed concerns below. I know I have a lot to learn. Video is inserted for viewing.

• When I move the leads the voltage measurement goes up and down.
• When testing a 9v battery the voltage appears to keep going down.
• Using the EF function seems to beep when I even move the probes around. Exaggerated movement in the video.
• IS it normal for the Amperage reading to settle but still go down?
• I cannot seem to get a mA reading even though I believe I just got around a 0.63A reading.

Is my multi-meter broken? 
Thank you all

[retiredcaps]

   

• When I move the leads the voltage measurement goes up and down.

Normal.

   

• When testing a 9v battery the voltage appears to keep going down.

You are measuring a "dead" battery.  Try measuring something like an ATX power supply 12V or 5V rail. It should be rock solid if the power supply is under load, more or less.

   

• Using the EF function seems to beep when I even move the probes around. Exaggerated movement in the video.

I don't know because I don't have this meter so it could be very sensitive?

   

• IS it normal for the Amperage reading to settle but still go down?

Again, dead 9V battery.

   

• I cannot seem to get a mA reading even though I believe I just got around a 0.63A reading.

You may have already blown the mA fuse which is why the meter is showing 0.00.

[wraper]

All I can see is that 9V battery should go to the dumpster.

[retiredcaps]

BTW, I noticed that you turned off the meter first, then put red probe into A socket.  If your probes are connected to something, turning on the meter will force it go through all the ranges like V, ohms, mV and diode test before reaching A. possibly blowing your fuse.

You can do it your way in the video, but just make sure the probes are NOT connected to anything.

[ataradov]

Don't ever measure battery current for more than a couple of seconds. You are essentially putting a short across the battery, that will kill it (if it was not dead before, as you can see here).

And on mA range, a fresh battery will blow the fuse in the multimeter.

[bright_ideas]

Thanks all I guess I seriously need to read/watch some more multi-meter and electronic basics tutorials.  To eager I am.

[rstofer]

If you did blow a fuse, Dave is selling them at his store:
https://www.eevblog.com/product/multimeter-fuse-pack/

Apparently, these fuses are hard to source.

[retiredcaps]

Thanks all I guess I seriously need to read/watch some more multi-meter and electronic basics tutorials.

I wouldn't worry too much.  Everyone has to start somewhere. I can suggest these videos. I watched them when I also first started out.

[alsetalokin4017]

A "perfect" voltmeter acts like an open circuit (very high impedance) so you can connect it to a circuit with almost no effect on the circuit, and it will also pick up tiny indications from the environment due to changing lead positions etc, especially on AC range. Connect a voltmeter across a battery and you should read a stable voltage since the (ideal) voltmeter does not (ideally) load or draw current from the battery.

A "perfect" ammeter acts like a _short circuit_, that is, it has very low impedance. What do you expect to happen if you simply short-circuit the terminals of a battery? That's right-- a high current will flow through the short circuit. And if there is a low current fuse involved... say goodbye to the fuse.

Blowing the low-range fuse in the Ammeter function is so common for new DMM users -- who then believe their meter is defective --  that there should be warnings printed on the package.

[IanB]

When I move the leads the voltage measurement goes up and down.

The space you live in is full of electric and magnetic fields. When you wave the leads around they act like antennas and pick up voltages from all the stray fields around you. You see this on the meter as a fluctuating voltage reading.

When testing a 9v battery the voltage appears to keep going down.

You will notice from the voltage that this 9 V battery is dead. It is normal for the voltage to be going down on a dead battery.

Using the EF function seems to beep when I even move the probes around. Exaggerated movement in the video.

If you read the manual you will see the EF function should be used with the leads unplugged. The EF sensor is in the body of the meter at the top left hand side near the display.

IS it normal for the Amperage reading to settle but still go down?

Yes, because you are putting a short circuit across the battery and killing it. Poor battery 

I cannot seem to get a mA reading even though I believe I just got around a 0.63A reading.

I will guess you put the meter directly across the battery and blew the fuse as others have said. NEVER put a meter across a battery in a current range unless you know the current will not exceed the range of the meter.

[Muttley Snickers]

Using the EF function seems to beep when I even move the probes around. Exaggerated movement in the video.

If you read the manual you will see the EF function should be used with the leads unplugged. The EF sensor is in the body of the meter at the top left hand side near the display.

An excellent post and just a minor addition to your statement, this particular meter incorporates both single probe contact EF and non-contact EF detection so the use of a probe in this scenario is in fact somewhat normal, personally I’m not a fan of this contact EF detection method as I foresee potential dangers for inexperienced users, I still tend to use and trust non-contact volt sticks out of habit I guess. 

[Audioguru]

Today I bought some AAA Ni-MH rechargeable battery cells. They are larger than the AAAA cells in a 9V battery so they produce a higher current. I charged them and measured 8A with my digital multimeter.
I have never tried to short a 9V alkaline battery but I think it can produce 1A for 15 minutes then it will be almost dead at 6V.

[sleemanj]

Blowing the low-range fuse in the Ammeter function is so common for new DMM users -- who then believe their meter is defective --  that there should be warnings printed on the package.

I don't know why meters don't come with spare fuses by default, at least low current ones.  I certainly include spares when I sell (cheap chinese) meters, because it's just a matter of time before you blow especially a low current fuse, not just beginners.  Toasted one the other day myself accidentally in a moments inattention.  That's what they are there for.

[james_s]

Today I bought some AAA Ni-MH rechargeable battery cells. They are larger than the AAAA cells in a 9V battery so they produce a higher current. I charged them and measured 8A with my digital multimeter.
I have never tried to short a 9V alkaline battery but I think it can produce 1A for 15 minutes then it will be almost dead at 6V.

Why would you do that? NiCd and NiMH batteries can produce surprisingly high current, you can melt wires that way and blow fuses, not to mention it can damage the battery. Don't ever try to measure current across a battery, that's putting a direct short on it.

[Gyro]

Today I bought some AAA Ni-MH rechargeable battery cells. They are larger than the AAAA cells in a 9V battery so they produce a higher current. I charged them and measured 8A with my digital multimeter.
I have never tried to short a 9V alkaline battery but I think it can produce 1A for 15 minutes then it will be almost dead at 6V.

With a single Ni-MH cell at around 1.4V the thing that is limiting the current to 8A is the combined resistance of your meter leads, probe tips, meter fuse, and current shunt. That's the only thing that has saved your meter fuse (until now anyway!) The true short circuit current of the cell would actually be much higher. With more than one cell in series the fuse would blow for sure.

Either way, it's a pointless experiment. 

[ebastler]

If you did blow a fuse, Dave is selling them at his store:
https://www.eevblog.com/product/multimeter-fuse-pack/
Apparently, these fuses are hard to source.

use smaller diameter copper wire that is suitable. problem fixed. if you believe those story that the MM will blow up and smash to your face then, so be it.

What?!? 

You can't be serious?! Who knows what someone will later accidentally connect that meter to? There are so many discussions on this forum and elsewhere about the need for decent fuses with high rupture capacity on multimeters. And then you come along, in the Beginners forum of all places, with this "great" advice? 

For the record -- don't patch your fuse with a piece of wire; get a properly rated replacement fuse! 

[tooki]

Thanks all I guess I seriously need to read/watch some more multi-meter and electronic basics tutorials.  To eager I am.

I think we all blew a multimeter fuse before we learned how to measure current properly! Why don't we just say that you've passed your first initiation ritual?

I assume the manual lists a method for testing the fuses. If you've blown one, order replacements from the link above. And have fun learning!

[janoc]

If you did blow a fuse, Dave is selling them at his store:
https://www.eevblog.com/product/multimeter-fuse-pack/
Apparently, these fuses are hard to source.

use smaller diameter copper wire that is suitable. problem fixed. if you believe those story that the MM will blow up and smash to your face then, so be it.

  You are trolling, right??

Here you have what happens with a cheapo glass fuse (or a "piece of wire") in a meter should a power spike come down the line (e.g. because of a switching transient or even a lightning strike somewhere, or the user being an idiot and trying to measure voltage with probes in the current jacks - everybody does that at some point):

https://youtu.be/OEoazQ1zuUM?t=389

Now imagine you were holding that meter in your hand. That expensive fuse is there to contain the explosion so that you don't have pieces of molten metal and plastic shrapnel flying around your face!

If all you are ever going to do is playing with Arduinos, use a piece of wire if you want. But then why to buy the Brymen, a cheap hw store junk would do equally well. However, that Brymen meter is CAT III-IV rated (and actually certified as such!) so someone could have the reasonable idea to use it to measure mains and risk their life thanks to your "fix".

Seriously,  mate ...

[BBBbbb]

A bad video example, do you notice he said that the leads due to bad wire quality were actually like a fuse [emoji3]

I guess idea of a small wire as a fuse comes from the old household fuses, but do you really want to play with your DMM that way?

[Seekonk]

Wisdom comes from knowledge.
Knowledge comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad decisions.

You bought a meter before you had any use for it.  Of course you are going to do things like measure how many amps are in a battery because you are bored.  I have a 6 1/2 digit meter, but I most often use the free meters from Harbor Freight. Buying an initial meter that you think you can live with for a long time is a mistake. Better equipment doesn't make you smarter. These days meter fuses are expensive.  Put this on the shelf and get a cheap meter to experiment with.

[rstofer]

If you did blow a fuse, Dave is selling them at his store:
https://www.eevblog.com/product/multimeter-fuse-pack/
Apparently, these fuses are hard to source.

use smaller diameter copper wire that is suitable. problem fixed. if you believe those story that the MM will blow up and smash to your face then, so be it.

I have seen the results of measuring 480VAC on the Rx1 (?) scale of a Simpson 260.  It might have been one of the current scales, I wasn't there at the time.  In any event, the entire case exploded with pieces attempting to embed themselves in the mechanic.  I guess the engineer standing along side had to go home to change.  When you have an available fault current of 50,000 amps or so, bad things can happen.  Compound that problem with the arcing that quickly turns to plasma and things can get real exciting.

These high interrupting capacity fuses are sort of new.  Meters built in the '50s and '60s might not have them.

Even with the high interrupting capacity fuses, I wouldn't expect the meter to survive an 'oopsie' with that kind of available fault current. 

As to shorting batteries:  That's a really bad idea.  I accidentally shorted a rechargeable Alkaline and the battery caught on fire.

[ebastler]

use smaller diameter copper wire that is suitable. problem fixed. if you believe those story that the MM will blow up and smash to your face then, so be it.

You are trolling, right??

no i'm not. but you are right, thats not a beginner recommendation as rstofer has given.

You are not getting out of this by adding red highlighting after the fact, mate... 
So what constitutes a "suitable" replacement wire in your expert opinion? One that happens to be located inside a ceramic tube, embedded in quartz sand, and tested to 1kV high current rupture? 

Regarding the Fluke demo: Yes, it is designed to look spectacular, and probably tests the circuit design of the Chinese meter rather than its fuse. But that does not take away from the fact that there are measurement modes where the fuses are designed to protect you from potentially catastrophic failures, and can only do so if they are proper HRC fuses.

And no, the Fluke engineer does not talk about "Fluke fuses" at any point in the video. Listen again.

[Zero999]

Any discussion regarding fusing and DMMs always gets heated very quickly.

Whilst I agree, that a fuse, should always be replaced with one of the original type, used by the manufacturer or better, a beginner shouldn't really be measuring circuits which can develop such high fault currents, they'll ever need anything beyond an ordinary glass fuse.

[joeqsmith]

It does seem irresponsible to suggest jumping out an HRC fuse in a handheld meter with wire to a beginner. 

Even if we completely ignore the safety side of things, how much would it take to damage the EEVBLOG meter if we jump the fuse?  Anyone willing to try it?  Does seem like something the idiots suggesting this would be willing to do before they go posting about it being a good idea.  Maybe these fuse experts could post some data where they have successfully replicated the time/current curves for the fuse supplied in the EEVBLOG meter.   For me, it seems like a total waste of time and stupid to even attempt it but anyone willing to suggest it should have already done their homework. 

If we ignore that being stupid like  this may result in damaging your meter, the other problem with beginners is they may not understand when they are putting themselves at risk.

I agree with Seekonk.  Get a cheap meter to start with. 

Wisdom comes from knowledge.
Knowledge comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad decisions.

You bought a meter before you had any use for it.  Of course you are going to do things like measure how many amps are in a battery because you are bored.  I have a 6 1/2 digit meter, but I most often use the free meters from Harbor Freight. Buying an initial meter that you think you can live with for a long time is a mistake. Better equipment doesn't make you smarter. These days meter fuses are expensive.  Put this on the shelf and get a cheap meter to experiment with.

[joeqsmith]

Having some fun with some an inch or so of 30AWG. 

[ebastler]

Whilst I agree, that a fuse, should always be replaced with one of the original type, used by the manufacturer or better, a beginner shouldn't really be measuring circuits which can develop such high fault currents, they'll ever need anything beyond an ordinary glass fuse.

My point is that you never know who else will use that meter in the future, and what they will do with it. (Or what you will do with it, in 5 years, when you are no longer a beginner and have long forgotten about your creative and cost-effective fuse replacement.) Always replace the fuse with whatever is needed to make sure that the meter's indicated safety rating is actually still valid!

Another way to put it -- I believe that there are three levels of expertise:

• Beginner: Does not know what's going on behind the scenes. Does whatever the manual requires (hopefully).
• Self-proclaimed expert: Knows something about the physics behind the scene, and uses creative solutions -- which work, as long as the assumed boundary conditions are met. Trusts himself to always remember and adhere to the assumed boundary conditions. 
• Pro: Knows that, in the real world, he or someone else will misstep at some point in the future, and will use the device outside its limits. Does whatever the manual requires. 

[rstofer]

Any discussion regarding fusing and DMMs always gets heated very quickly.

Whilst I agree, that a fuse, should always be replaced with one of the original type, used by the manufacturer or better, a beginner shouldn't really be measuring circuits which can develop such high fault currents, they'll ever need anything beyond an ordinary glass fuse.

Yes, I see a great future in 5V stuff - maybe 12V if the batteries are small.  Staying completely away from mains is always a good idea.  Limited fault current is another good idea.  A car battery can do a lot of damage if the wrench gets across the posts.

Since Dave is packaging and selling the proper fuses for the Brymen meter (I hope they fit), there is no reason to use a glass fuse or a piece of 30 AWG.

[joeqsmith]

Yes, I see a great future in 5V stuff - maybe 12V if the batteries are small.  Staying completely away from mains is always a good idea.  Limited fault current is another good idea.  A car battery can do a lot of damage if the wrench gets across the posts.

Since Dave is packaging and selling the proper fuses for the Brymen meter (I hope they fit), there is no reason to use a glass fuse or a piece of 30 AWG.

I would guess that 30AWG copper would make a mess of the EEVBLOG meters mA circuit.  One of the fuse jumper experts should try it. I doubt they would cover it under warranty. 

This meter uses the same fuse that I recently tested what I believe are some counterfeit ones.  At 10X the trip current, the one I tested took over 2X time absolute maximum time to open.   The cost of these was around $5.90.  Hard to say if you could damage the EEVBLOG meter using one but why risk it if Dave is selling the proper parts? 


 

[janoc]

do some research or you may believe whatever you want to believe, i cant do anymore help there.

I think the person needing the research is you, not me. Try a glass fuse or a piece of wire in a Fluke or Brymen and then "measure" current of a car battery (or a LiPo) - similar like what the OP did with a smaller battery. And you will see what will happen.

Even expert users will have brainfarts - and the fuse is there to save your bacon in such situation. But if you believe it is there only to line the pockets of Fluke and such I hope your infallibility will protect you instead, because that piece of wire you have replaced the fuse with certainly won't.

[yada]

As to shorting batteries:  That's a really bad idea.  I accidentally shorted a rechargeable Alkaline and the battery caught on fire.

I remember those they were made by rayovac (what were they called?) you could charge them 25 times. Thats when all there was, was nicd's that didn't work in some things.

I know hes a noob but what's the point of measuring a battery on amps? Amps is to see how much the circuit pulls from the battery, not how much the battery has in it, as if there was such a reading. I like how 98237498 people kept saying over and over, "your battery is dead". I would think that would be obvious from the fact that a 9V battery reads 5V.

This reminds me of the threads on the Arduino forum when people cant get it to work the first time and blame defective products. I guess we are so used to shit from China that we just expect it. I know I have bought multiple of the same items on ebay to have every single one be defective. Then they try to not give you your shipping back. They know this stuff doesn't work, and they either mix it in with the working parts or will just sell it hoping you can't be bothered getting a refund. I always call them out on that shit.

[joeqsmith]

the "idiot" doesnt do intentional DMM damaging stuff by sending some nasty pulse stuffs beyond the DMM rating for fun and pleasure, its not his proffesion and wont be willing to waste anymore time, he has had enough fair amount of time playing with it. except if some supplier are willing to send one for free to mythbust the urban legend (well its going to be boring and unspectacular). of course making a proper diy fuse is not simply jumping it out and let the burst bits shorting out another components in the DMM, if there is possibility. if the user dont know how to do it properly he doesnt deserve near any mains source. and giving an impression that a DMM (like Brymen) alone (with a proper HRC fuse) is safe enough for an occasional high voltage tester (thats usually the selling point in the "promotion" youtubes), is just as irresponsible, esp to someone who can mistakenly measure 600V in Amp or Ohm setting. if someone cant decide if 30 AWG wire is suitable or not, but still insist on putting that as a "suitable fuse" or as a strawman argument, then he is not much more in term of brain size. but if the OP is willing to wait order for the proper rated fuse and pay for the shipping cost, then who can stop him from doing the proper thing? dont design electronics its dangerous, just buy them.

Attempting to troll me is fine.  Recommending to a beginner to jumper their fuse but follow that up with " if the user dont know how to do it properly he doesnt deserve near any mains source. "   Personally I am surprised they allow this level of reckless stupidity in the beginners area. 

You should start a post in another area about how to properly jump out a fuse seeing you are the one recommending it. 

[ebastler]

[...] i cant do anymore help there.

So it seems, and that may be for the better.   

[joeqsmith]

who's trolling who? btw just by coincidence, i remember my UT71A amp range is dead few days ago. someone must have been shorted it out again. so since the urban legend, this must be the right time for the fix... this is my second fix. so keep in mind, the 1st blow was the original fuse.. i reused the glass casing to put in the 0.15mm wire, and then blow again, that is few days ago. this is the third fuse fix... the original wire was thicker than my diy fuse istr, since i dont usually do up to 10A range measurement. my DMM is live again thank you no need 2 weeks wait time and 10x the shipping cost for Fluke (read expensive) fuse... in the pics you can see blown bits of copper still intact...

btw, just to get things in context... i'm not a high voltage high energy tester, just an arduino tinkerer, but i'm not stupid enough to poke in the DMM probe into the mains while on Amp or Ohm setting. so i dont have to be fusephobic... my DMM for mains is the light above the ceiling... but i do remember i accidentally probed 12V in ohm range using the meter well i guess i was lucky. ymmv.. and oh wait! that UT71A's fuse is rated 250V but CATIII 1000V rated input (see proofs below), so its highly not recommended for noobs. noobs buy Fluke, the idiots buy china brand.

You blow more fuses unintentionally than I do intentionally.    

To be clear, the 10A fuse was blown but the pictures show the mA fuse missing and the last picture is showing 15mA.  Were both blown?  0.15mm wire would seem a little small for a 10A fuse.  Can you get the full 10A? 

[ebastler]

you just made my day. right i've almost forgotten about it...

Sigh... That's exactly my point; one forgets about these hacks. And one of these days, you will have the need to measure mains power, rather than just Arduinos, and you will use that meter. (Or someone else using your meter will do so. As you have explained and demonstrated, you of course would never be so foolish to measure in the wrong mode or range and blow a fuse...  )

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

[joeqsmith]

That poor meter.   

I would think it would be more difficult to damage the Brymen in the mA range than the A range with the wrong fuse, just because of the fixed low resistance shunt. 

Why use the fuse body for the A and not for the mA fuse?  Can you get the full 10A out of the 0.15mm? 

For fun I tried some 46 copper wire soldered across the face of the counterfeit fuse.  It would open at around 1.5A.   With the same 5A test setup and the time to open was about 18mS or about 3X over what the SIBA data sheet calls for the absolute maximum.   The picture shows the wire from the counterfeit fuse on top,  center is a Belden 38AWG and on the bottom is the 46. The color match is poor but the wire used in the counterfeit fuse is not copper.  It is silver in color and is very soft.   

Did you bother to test your wire before you soldered it onto the low current clips?  Curious how close yours was to the original spec'ed fuse.   

[joeqsmith]

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

  

[Nusa]

It's one thing to suggest replacing original quality fuses with cheap glass fuses from the hardware store. They'll still save the meter for the kind of overloads that most users actually encounter, even if you lose the high-voltage rating on the current scales. I'd call this not-recommended, but acceptable for typical users that never run into high voltage.

Irresponsible is suggesting that someone who is clearly still figuring out what current is, never mind how to measure it, is qualified to make a "suitable" DIY fusing wire selection, proably limiting themselves to the few too-large choices on hand. Odds are they'd end up with something that will make the meter a weaker link than the wire, although it would work until that event.

[yada]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

[P90]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

"Someone"
case closed...   LOL

[joeqsmith]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

It may seem harsh but when it comes to the potential to injure or kill a person, I could care less about hurting someone's feelings.

Even if I wanted to suggest someone try and jump a fuse for what ever the reason, from my little test I don't have any wire that I would recommend that I know for sure would not damage the meter.  Fuse science, it's not just a length of wire. 
 
I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them. 

[james_s]

I will admit that I have put foil around the blown fuse in my Fluke once or twice, I was working on a car, had a brain fart, didn't have another fuse on hand so I did what I had to do to finish the job. I would never suggest anyone else do that though, that falls squarely under the category of "do as I say and not as I do."

[P90]

"Does not play well with others" How many people here got that on their report cads in school? I find it funny, less name calling, that's just being "stupid". You guys just tear into one another, like tigers waiting to pounce at the slightest slip up of incorrect information.

"MOM!!!! Some one called me stupid over the internet!!! Come down the basement right now and see!" 

It may seem harsh but when it comes to the potential to injure or kill a person, I could care less about hurting someone's feelings.

Even if I wanted to suggest someone try and jump a fuse for what ever the reason, from my little test I don't have any wire that I would recommend that I know for sure would not damage the meter.  Fuse science, it's not just a length of wire. 
 
I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

You mean, "couldn't care less"

[joeqsmith]

At least you could decode it.  Sometimes it's next to impossible. 

[P90]

That's when it's time to hit the bottle...

[IanB]

I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

In the UK at least, plug top fuses to BS1362 are cheaply and widely available. These are ceramic fuses with a breaking capacity of about 6 kA at mains voltage. Although not designed for use in meters, they would at a pinch be vastly better than a low current glass fuse or a piece of wire.

[IanB]

In fact, here is an amusing video of someone using such fuses as a disposable switch. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be replacing fuses so nonchalantly if they cost as much as Fluke multimeter fuses 

https://youtu.be/eA3SDiyMiWU
 

[P90]

I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

In the UK at least, plug top fuses to BS1362 are cheaply and widely available. These are ceramic fuses with a breaking capacity of about 6 kA at mains voltage. Although not designed for use in meters, they would at a pinch be vastly better than a low current glass fuse or a piece of wire.

many lower end multimeters use those "BS" labeled  fuses...

[SeanB]

Thanks, had not seen that Brady video.

[janoc]

Well, I guess it does not matter so much when you work on a meter that does not have proper fuses to begin with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

Uni-Trend   UT71E (all A,B,C,D,E)  CatIII/1000V  CATIV/600V  glass fuses used on current ranges with rating of 250V, battery lead with 600V insulated wires touching unprotected circuit board trace for Volts/Ohms input, might be an issue, might not. No indication on face of meter of low voltage fuses. (submitted by lightages)

 

That's called a safe meter - only noobs buy Flukes, everyone else knows that Uni-T makes the best bang  for buck meters on Earth (in more sense than one). So if they put underrated fuses in, it has to be OK, screw the greedy Fluke and stupid Brymen.
 

I wonder whether it has UL cert too (Dave's Brymen does).

[Electro Detective]

Recent Youtube multimeter robustness tests viewed, have me questioning what "best bang for buck" really means

Are we talking value or fireworks, or both?    

[P90]

Recent Youtube multimeter robustness tests viewed, have me questioning what "best bang for buck" really means

Are we talking value or fireworks, or both?   

"best bang for buck" I found was in Budapest...       

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

you just made my day. right i've almost forgotten about it... i hope you are getting it in the 1st pic, its difficult on wide angle lens. hilarious isnt it? the dummy's guide to fuse installation (fwiw its alot thinner than 30 AWG), i cant remember when i fixed that its been years... 2nd pic A range is getting some reading yay...

You know what? Some ICE "Industria de Costruzioni Elettromecanica" tester model fuses' were ~ exactly like that. Even had a roll of wire (inside the tester) next to the fuse to "reset" when needed. ISTR it was the ICE 680R.

[Electro Detective]

Is that a blonde or brunette Budapest Fuse that P90 mentioned ? 

[janoc]

Recent Youtube multimeter robustness tests viewed, have me questioning what "best bang for buck" really means

Are we talking value or fireworks, or both?   

It was sarcasm ...

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Is that a blonde or brunette Budapest Fuse that P90 mentioned ? 

Mediterranean for best cuntinuity:

[joeqsmith]

I was at the local hardware stores yesterday and none offered a fast blow fuse.  They also did not have any low current fuses.   I am sure there are non-HRC parts that could be used but in my case anyway, I would still need to order them.

In the UK at least, plug top fuses to BS1362 are cheaply and widely available. These are ceramic fuses with a breaking capacity of about 6 kA at mains voltage. Although not designed for use in meters, they would at a pinch be vastly better than a low current glass fuse or a piece of wire.

many lower end multimeters use those "BS" labeled  fuses...

Many

[yada]

Recent Youtube multimeter robustness tests viewed, have me questioning what "best bang for buck" really means

Are we talking value or fireworks, or both?   

To truly test them you have to go swimming with them in a national park. Also don't forget the going over a water fall test.

[Electro Detective]

For safety's sake (and the users) there should be a re-think on all meter performance versus price debate,

and discuss which meters are field and lab proven best 'No -BANG- Per Buck'   

[Electro Detective]

and discuss which meters are good field and lab proven best 'No -BANG- Per Buck'   

done.. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

The lists are great, but the reality is no meter can survive a gross user error blunder, mixed with ignorance, impatience, and the wrong settings and leads placement.

It's BANG! end of story (and the meter, and unfortunate poorly educated and or dumbass user due to shock, injury, or death via BBQ)

[P90]

take out the fuses and leave them out... and suddenly that meter is much safer...

[Electro Detective]

take out the fuses and leave them out... and suddenly that meter is much safer...

"AIR FUSES" save lives!      

You can get them anywhere, they come in a clear HRC tube format rated @ FFFFFF 16kv Cat 5 and 6,

and you can save big dollars buying a 10 pack      
the money you save can go towards purchase of a clamp meter   

[P90]

take out the fuses and leave them out... and suddenly that meter is much safer...

"AIR FUSES" save lives!      

You can get them anywhere, they come in a clear HRC tube format rated @ FFFFFF 16kv Cat 5 and 6,

and you can save big dollars buying a 10 pack      
the money you save can go towards purchase of a clamp meter   

Quick, better patent (pay-tint as they say in UK) that idea...       LOL

[Electro Detective]

The answer is simpler that you think, but you must own TWO decent multimeters to be able to do it.

Install "Patent Pending" AIR FUSES in the meter that will/should NEVER measure current. Shop around for a good deal on those fuses
or if you're cheap like me, buy a used unloved Fluke 114 that has auto-reset AIR FUSES built in 

The other meter that does measure current must have the non-current inputs (volts/ohms/whatever) BLOCKED, so no human BBQ candidate can ever slot a pair of leads into it.

It's a better gamble than living in a fools paradise trusting an 'all in one' meter, when faced with a classic user error DOA scenario.

[Nerull]

People are aware that loud explosions are not the only failure mode of a DMM, right?

Yeah, most users will never blow up a DMM, even if they replace the fuses with wire.

But it doesn't need to blow up to break. The fuse isn't there just to protect the user, it's also there to protect the meter. Currents which may not pose any danger to the user may well damage the meter. You've decided the part you would like to fail first on your expensive new purchase is the meter itself.

Frying your $200+ meter because you were too lazy to replace a $5 fuse is pretty fucking stupid, especially for the hobbyist user who can't always afford to buy new equipment every time they have a brainfart and forget to switch probe sockets.

[Electro Detective]

The other meter that does measure current must have the non-current inputs (volts/ohms/whatever) BLOCKED, so no human BBQ candidate can ever slot a pair of leads into it.

that doesnt solve anything... foolproof wise..

If it has properly rated HRC fuses it's a good start and better than nothing,
..and Darwin's theory can sort out the 'DIY fuse' fools (good news for those still standing, means more electronics work and women for us)  

A lot of noobs, DIYers and even electrical trades people don't quite get the current and voltage inputs thing, or they forget and BANG!

Meters should have removable current input plastic blocks fitted when new, and advised in the manual of why they are there. Most prodders may never use the current inputs and leave the plastic blocks in for aesthetics
 
Most average prodders don't use (or understand) the 'break circuit' current measurement feature anyway (and shouldn't for anything over 30v) , BUT will put probes in those current sockets (because they are RED coloured too lol) be it a mistake or forgetfulness, and measure voltage and       +$$$

[yada]

Does the fact that the meter is plastic make anyone else feel safe? I would stick a 8$ Chinese meter onto AC mains even if it couldn't handle it. Something inside the meter may pop but its little risk to me if I'm only holding plastic. I wouldn't leave it connected or use it again but still plastic is great insulator. If it was an old piece of equipment with a metal case I would never do that. In fact I'm always extra precautious with metal case anything because they used to tie AC to the chassis or connect it through a by now leaky cap.

[Electro Detective]

Does the fact that the meter is plastic make anyone else feel safe? I would stick a 8$ Chinese meter onto AC mains even if it couldn't handle it. Something inside the meter may pop but its little risk to me if I'm only holding plastic. I wouldn't leave it connected or use it again but still plastic is great insulator. If it was an old piece of equipment with a metal case I would never do that. In fact I'm always extra precautious with metal case anything because they used to tie AC to the chassis or connect it through a by now leaky cap.

It's all good unless the cheap plastic meter has internal issues,
perhaps a loose screw or washer,
or flaked off excess solder blob,
faulty dial or switches,
a combination of the above,
issues that may happen at an inconvenient time when you stick it in the AC mains
and the meter goes BANG! in your hand
and if you're extra lucky, the flying dial and plastic shrapnel will just miss your face,
either way it's not pretty,
and unfair on the people around you if you get badly trashed   

[BravoV]

take out the fuses and leave them out... and suddenly that meter is much safer...

Interestingly, did a poll while ago on people using DMM for measuring current -> [POLL] Multimeter current measurement, how often do you use it ?

[yada]

This one is the best! Made in Austria not china so I know the electricity is better. The current mode seems unbelievably quick when it comes to saving things from blowing themselves up. Not cheap though although I got mine cheap due to them putting the wrong price tag on it ( 1/10 the price!). I have actually used its hand heldness too! I would like to put it on a scope to see how clean the signal is but as far as I can tell its about as noisy as running off a battery compared to other supplies.

[Electro Detective]

take out the fuses and leave them out... and suddenly that meter is much safer...

Interestingly, did a poll while ago on people using DMM for measuring current -> [POLL] Multimeter current measurement, how often do you use it ?

I just voted and I'm in the quite rare majority of more than 1% , <= 25% Quite rare      28 (35.9%

Good quality clamp meters save a lot of time and headache on most jobs and the readings are good enough,
if I need ultra accuracy and precision, then I break the circuit and use a good multimeter with HRC fuses and FUSED LEADS.

BTW, who sells those input socket blockers, plugs ? what are they called?  ('thingies' is not a word afaik)

[BravoV]

BTW, who sells those input socket blockers, plugs ? what are they called?  ('thingies' is not a word afaik)

It came as standard accessory with Fluke 287/289.

I love them as I rarely use DMM to measure current my self, and over the time, usually those exposed sockets are filled with dust/dirt or worst tiny crawly thingy.

[ebastler]

This one is the best!

... and nevertheless, if you try to use it as a multimeter, you will be in trouble! 
Wrong thread?