I've caught the disease! I'm a single-payer (bench equipment)

[vinito]

Hi folks.
I have been puttering with electronics for decades and not learning much. I need a more systematic approach with hands-on lab play along with some kind of workbook thing I can solve problems on paper and actually learn something. You know, like classes in electronics used to offer but seem to be long gone these days. But this is kind of a tangent (though advice on it is welcome)

Anyway, I've collected some cheap stuff over the years and have a modest bench - a couple power supplies, basic cheap old signal generator, couple cheap decent handheld multimeters, good soldering stuff and boxes & shelves of components, modules and the like.

Earlier this year I got a great deal on a new GWInstek 2072A oscilloscope (~$300) and that might have tipped the load off balance. Ever since then I've been watching reviews and reading a bunch about other equipment I don't need. But much of the modern stuff is SO much better than what I've got, I guess I simply got envious.

A few weeks ago my main bench power supply started acting up and was never that great to begin with, so I started looking into a new one rather than try to fix it (not yet anyway). That story ends with me receiving a Rigol DP832 today. Holy cow that thing is sooo much nicer than what I'm used to! I imagine that I'll use 1/4 of it's capabilities on my path, but you never know I guess. I couldn't fight off the nagging bug and I ended up ordering a Siglent SDM3055 bench multimeter a couple hours ago. It's another thing I don't see myself actually needing much (at least yet) but I couldn't help it. Plus when I do use the thing, I'm sure it will be such a pleasure to experience compared to what I'm used to. I'm not positive yet, but I think I've caught that electronics buying bug I've heard you guys talk about. My wallet isn't totally empty yet so maybe I don't have an acute case of it, but then again the day is young.

I accessorized my purchases with some various connector odds & ends, plus more significantly a couple books that sound like they might fit what I need for actually learning some electronics. Honestly I do OK now and then, but my knowledge in the area is spotty and shallow and I always wanted to have a much more solid ability in the field, though always as a hobbyist.

The books I ordered are "Practical Electronics for Inventors" (Scherz and Monk) and "All New Electronics Self-Teaching Guide" (Kybett and Boysen). Hopefully they'll be a good fit for where I'm at. Winter is knocking at the door and this stuff might be a really good way to rationalize this winter's atrophy and weight gain 

I'm currently upgrading my physical bench from a thrift store desk to a 12' long built-in wall thing. So with the new bench, new equipment and a couple good books, I hope to crack the egg if only a little over the next few months. I have a couple dozen ideas I'd like to experiment with and implement eventually, but I always run into the brick wall of ignorance so quickly and I'm gonna try my best to push that wall back at least a bit.

So I don't quite know what this post is. I either need help with this addiction or just encouragement. FYI, encouragement will experience less resistance.

[rstofer]

A systematic approach would include "The Art of Electronics" (textbook) plus "Learning the Art of Electronics" (lab manual).

I have the DP832 and it's a great supply.  I also bought a Siglent SDG 2082X Arbitrary Waveform Generator and a Rigol DS1054Z.

I have been messing around with this stuff for 60+ years and it's just lately I have bought pretty nice equipment.  I bought a Tektronix 485 scope a long time back and it still works.

I really like the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 as a handy bench device.  Dual channel scope, dual channel arbitrary waveform generator, 16 digital signals (input or output) that work as a logic analyzer, etc.  It is truly a workbench in a box.  I could use that gadget plus my laptop and not miss out on much.

Have fun!

[vinito]

Thanks for the quick reply!
I saw those books and considered them too, but I can only read one page at a time so figured I'd start where I did. They're on the reading list though.
I ain't too far behind you regarding vintage. But I didn't take advantage of the times and boy do I regret it. There's no telling what I'd be able to do had I dove in and started learning this stuff when I was a wee lad. I feel pretty stupid... well I AM pretty stupid. Is knowing you're stupid a good or bad thing? I can't remember what the philosophers verdict was on that score.

I ran across that Digilent device a few months ago too. Looks pretty clever. I have a skepticism about things that do everything so didn't look at it very closely. I'm probably wrong about that too. 

[ArthurDent]

Vinito, you seem to really be checking into what equipment will work for you and will eventually end up with a lot of good stuff. The only thing you need now is a second job to help pay for all the goodies. Good luck!

[vinito]

Thanks.
Yeah I've been trying to read and watch lots of reviews. The stuff shown slowly rose to the top. Frequently it seems like some stuff looks good at first then further diving exposes problems, while other stuff that shows weaknesses at first gets fixed over time (via firmware updates or hardware changes, etc.), so a guy really has to spend a bit of time before pulling the trigger. Both the PS and Siglent multimeter had show-stopping problems at first, but looks like they are both pretty slick now (for the price).

As I get older, I've settled into the notion that buying cheap and possible broken "projects" are OK for a while, but whether you're talking carpenter tools, yard equipment or electronics metrology, etc., burning a bit more money up front both saves time spent being frustrated as well as making the user experience more enjoyable along the way. I did phase one for a couple decades, so thus begins phase two I guess. I won't blame my lack of learning on having sub-standard equipment - that's totally my own fault. But as I move forward I'm sure I'll enjoy the time spent a little more having a bit nicer equipment to fondle.

I am just a little scared though. The money has been flowing outward pretty fast the past couple weeks. I haven't proven to have the discipline to put nose to grindstone for my education in this, but I need to come to my senses and put the brakes on, at least for a while.

"I can do it!" 
We'll see. 

[Brumby]

I am just a little scared though. The money has been flowing outward pretty fast the past couple weeks. I haven't proven to have the discipline to put nose to grindstone for my education in this, but I need to come to my senses and put the brakes on, at least for a while.

If you find yourself getting caught up in this, we have a "support"  group that may prove useful with some of those concerns.  Not so much to help you address them - just to live with them.

Much research has gone into many aspects, which has resulted in something akin to a group identity statement, some useful links and an extensive glossary.  These resources can be found in the first post of this thread:
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/
Discussions are to be found in the rest of the thread.  You are sure to be welcomed there.

[vinito]

I know about that "support group" and that's a load of malarkey. It's not a group which encourages any healing, but rather enabling in a deep way... yeah I'll fit right in.

I do like that glossary. Never read through much of it before. It'll take weeks for me to become familiar with most of those acronyms - a worthy endeavor indeed.

By the way, I do have this affliction bad enough that I'm upgrading my bench (as mentioned). The project is obviously very early in and only just started it. It'll have insulation, wiring & lighting built-in along with the top and shelving and such. I thought I might share some progress pics here as I go. I might have it functional by tomorrow night and maybe somewhere close to what I can call "finished" in a week or two. That day job thing is starting to cut into my fun time.



The original (4 hobbies in 1 crammed in there):

[Brumby]

Nice effort.

Won't be big enough.  (They never are).

It's not a group which encourages any healing, but rather enabling in a deep way... yeah I'll fit right in.

Thought you might.   


Nice power strip on the old desk. 

[rstofer]

I ran across that Digilent device a few months ago too. Looks pretty clever. I have a skepticism about things that do everything so didn't look at it very closely. I'm probably wrong about that too. 

Every time I bring up the AD2, it gets dismissed as some kind of gimmick or toy.  Except by those of us who use it!  It just looks too tiny to be serious.

One comparison spec:  The AD2 uses a 14 bit ADC, the Rigol DS1054Z scope uses an 8 bit ADC.  Hm...  Which has better resolution?  OK, the sample rate of the Rigol is 10x the AD2 but most educational projects aren't working at very high MHz.  The AD2 bandwidth is 30 MHz, the Rigol is 100 MHz.

Here's an idea!  Figure out how to create a Bode' plot of an RC circuit (low pass filter) and get a hardcopy (scaled properly) for your notebook.  Use anything you have!  I'll wait...  waiting...

It depends entirely on what you want to do with electronics.  There is no real reason for an Arduino user to ever have need of a Bode' plot.  But a budding electronics guy?  Sure!  It's fundamental.  Yes, it can be pencil whipped - we did that back in the days of slide rules because we didn't HAVE anything else.  Actually, we used an HP Audio Signal Generator and a scope or VTVM (the DMM hadn't been invented) to measure the output voltage versus frequency.  We just plotted points and connected them.  Not entirely satisfying but it got the point across.

That Bode' plot is trivial with the AD2.  It has the signal generator, it has the Network tool.  Do a few filters and you have a good handle on them.

The AD2 truly is a lab in a small box.  Unfortunately, it isn't cheap by the time you toss in a couple of probes and the BNC adapter board.

https://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-pro-bundle/

It is really aimed at students who are learning electronics in college as opposed to those hobbyists who build stuff from plans.

It's worth the time to download the Waveforms software and play with the demos.  Just to get a feel for the kinds of tools available...

[WallyGator]

The AD2 truly is a lab in a small box.  Unfortunately, it isn't cheap by the time you toss in a couple of probes and the BNC adapter board.

https://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-pro-bundle/

I thought I would de-lurk and say thanks for the reference.  I downloaded the WaveForms software to run in demo mode and it looks very interesting.  While poking around the Digilent site I saw they are doing Cyber Week sales next week with daily emails containing discount coupons for several of their products, including the Analog Discovery 2.  It is necessary to sign up for the emails at their web site. 
https://resources.digilentinc.com/deals/

I have no idea how much the discount will be, but the sign-up confirmation email said:

... each day (Monday through Friday) an email will come out with a new deal. That deal is redeemed through a coupon code attached to the email and is active until 4AM PST the following day. Uses are limited to the 24 hour time period, and one per customer.

These are our steepest deals of the year and we are excited to share them with you! ...

[vinito]

I finally got a chance to make a little progress on the bench. Once it's done I'll probably outgrow it a week later. But for now I'm loving the look of the 12-foot length and no legs in the way out front.

Oh yeah I just remembered something important too. Being on an equipment "kick", I figured an electronic load might be kinda handy. After seeing Dave's, Martin Lorton's and Peter Oakes's videos (and I'm sure there are more) I figured one of my first bench projects will be to tweak those and design & build one to suit my own needs & wants. Seems like a good way to learn a bit about MOSFETs and Op-Amps and general ohm's law practice with a couple other small tidbits for good measure. For a load, I won't need anything fancy or expensive maybe ever, but at least for a long time. So this seems like a worthy, fun and educational project.

[glue_ru]

I see your scope is center, is that the most common used piece?  I use the , IM-13, B&K 360 VOMatic, DMM and soldering station the most.
So I arrange mine to usage, and bring seldom used gear off the shelf and use as needed.  And because I have too much to put on the bench
and I don't want a wall of equipment I rarely use in front of me.  I have windows on 3 sides, so daylight is real nice to work in.
and I only have 22 outlets on 2 circuits, 1 long strip down each side under the window sill. the left one on an Isotral 15 amp filter.

[vinito]

The scope was about the only bench "piece" I had  .
Otherwise I had a power supply bench left and a very seldom used signal generator (cheap deal) shelf left.
Now that I'm gonna have a nice bench DMM, it will undoubtedly be used the most and will be prominent.

But it almost doesn't matter much at the beginning because my plan is to build several rails of french cleats so I can mount shelves and racks of all sorts along the wall. Since they are so modular, I can pretty quickly re-arrange things as I go.

I'm a rookie at this so I'm sure no matter what I do at the start, it'll be way wronger than what I'll settle into after some time. The cleat thing will be my friend on that I think.

Dang I let the cat out of the bag. The french cleats were going to be a surprise.

Since I'm revealing design ideas though, I was originally going to wire up the bench, but decided that it might be better to run some raceway kind of track for the power kind of hidden but on the surface so I can maybe re-arrange that more easily later if necessary. Who am I kidding? I'm sure it will be necessary as it also will be wronger at first than it will later.
And as a bonus (or maybe just to add insult to injury?) I have a compressor nearby so thought I'd plumb up some 1/4" PEX line over to the bench for some easy access for compressed air. Plan to add separator & regulator, etc. I don't know if I'll need it much, but it might be handy.

[Johncanfield]

I just built V2.0 of my electronics workbench (and ham radio station desk.) It appears I got it mostly right this time   

The workbench is 8 feet long and 3 feet wide. The top is two sheets of 3/4" plywood and the entire bench is on rolling casters (wheels.) My major failure on V1.0 is the top was not deep enough, if I ever build V2.5, I would use the entire 4x8 foot sheet of plywood. Having the ability to roll the bench around is priceless.

My test equipment runs from 30 year old stuff to very modern, some of my older equipment is my first choice to use like my HP 34401A multimeter.

Like you I got back into electronics a few years ago.

[gcewing]

Don't worry, as long as you have a bit of money left over to buy some parts to play with, you'll be fine. Oh, and some food too.

[rhb]

Over the course of the last 18 months or so I finally decided to buy a proper test bench at age 65.  I've spent about $12K, mostly HP except for a Tek 485 and a LeCroy DDA-125.  Almost a 1/4 of that was a Keysight 33622A from their eBay store.  All the rest is 20 year old HP label.  I've also got some Chinese stuff, Instek, Rigol, Tenma but the quality difference is really  striking.

I'm still a little shocked, as I've bought one new vehicle for myself, in my entire life, a base model 1993 Toyota pickup with A/C for $7800 at age 40.  But the test gear has proven to be one of the best decisions I've ever made.  I've always wanted to play with electronics at a serious level, but was put off by the high cost of test gear.  With no real hope of work in the oil industry again and several good friends dead already, I decided it was time.

I have 4' x 7' for the electronics in a 10'x 7' room with 5 computers, 3 monitors and two printers.  It's been a huge, very time consuming puzzle to fit it all in, but it's worked out nicely.

BTW I suggest some knee braces for your bench.  The construction in the photo will not hold up and is a considerable risk for dumping everything on the floor with a lot of noise  and unpleasant consequences.

[vinito]

"BTW I suggest some knee braces for your bench.  The construction in the photo will not hold up and is a considerable risk for dumping everything on the floor with a lot of noise  and unpleasant consequences."

The braces are stronger then they appear. I weigh over 200lbs and if I sit my weight on one of the horizontal braces, it drops about 1/16" without being tied to the bench nor or the 1-1/2" perimeter I'll be attaching to it. I'm pretty sure it'll be rock solid once it's done. The concern is understandable, but it's much more than just nails and prayers. Thanks.

Also, the bulk of equipment and such will end up on shelves above the bench, so most of the weight will be up there as well. It's all part of my evil master plan.

[bitseeker]

Welcome to the forum, vinito!

I know about that "support group" and that's a load of malarkey. It's not a group which encourages any healing, but rather enabling in a deep way... yeah I'll fit right in.

Ah, yes, but it is a support group. Encouragement is very supportive. Plus, I don't think it would've lasted so long had it been about dwindling its membership by curing them.

Don't take it too seriously, though. We certainly don't. Otherwise, it won't be fun anymore.

By the way, I do have this affliction bad enough that I'm upgrading my bench (as mentioned).

Looks like you're off to a great start on the new work space and bench. Then, you'll have plenty of room for more gear. Seriously, though, don't forget about your books and projects. It is easy to get sidetracked, but you do still learn stuff along the way.

[rhb]

"BTW I suggest some knee braces for your bench.  The construction in the photo will not hold up and is a considerable risk for dumping everything on the floor with a lot of noise  and unpleasant consequences."

The braces are stronger then they appear. I weigh over 200lbs and if I sit my weight on one of the horizontal braces, it drops about 1/16" without being tied to the bench nor or the 1-1/2" perimeter I'll be attaching to it. I'm pretty sure it'll be rock solid once it's done. The concern is understandable, but it's much more than just nails and prayers. Thanks.

Also, the bulk of equipment and such will end up on shelves above the bench, so most of the weight will be up there as well. It's all part of my evil master plan.

If you've got a metal clip in addition to nails, it should hold up fine.   My concern was that it was *just* nails.  And I know from 50 odd years of experience (I learned everything but masonry helping my dad), that does not hold up long term.  My space is very small.  I had intended a larger space in my 1500 sq ft shop, but decided that wood and metal work was not very compatible with electronics.

Plan your power distribution.  The 6-8 outlet power strips don't work well with lots of gear because of the volume of the cords.

I've attached a some pictures of my setup which I made by cutting the IEC end of of power cords.

I have switched 3 circuits, lights only, test gear only and soldering equipment only.  The soldering  circuit has a light which is on if that circuit is live.  Any one of the switched instrument feeds can be made always on for things like a GPSDO.

[coppercone2]

holy shit put some epoxy on that lab floor

also, where is your moisture barrier?

[vinito]

holy shit put some epoxy on that lab floor. also, where is your moisture barrier?

I don't know if you were talking to me or rhb, but that does bring up a question for me.
I have the styrofoam put into my wall there to buffer the cool draftiness of the wall for more comfort. I was thinking about putting some kind of thin laminate flooring over some thin-ish insulating underlayment to maybe help with the same thing for under foot. It won't be the whole basement, just a ways around the bench since there will be a lot of sitting in one place going on there. Big enough so a rolling chair will easily stay atop it, etc. I suppose I could possibly add some active heating as well, but probably not as I don't want too much of a step up to the bench area as well as the inefficiency of electric heat, especially with a concrete slab trying to suck it away. Not sure what I wanna do there yet, but whatever I do can be added pretty easily later too.

Pretty solid power feeds there rhb. I'll be spreading some outlets around a bit but only over 2 circuits, but that should suit me plenty fine. I like your ideas though and may adapt a bit of that for myself eventually.

[rhb]

Coppercone's point about moisture barrier is important.    At a minimum, paint the entire floor and any exposed concrete or masonry walls  with the cheapest latex paint you can buy.  The laminate requires a moisture barrier between it and a concrete floor.   It's a good argument for doing the entire floor if you can afford it. Consider it the first step in remodeling the basement.  Build an interior  wall for your work space, insulate it and put down laminate.

High humidity leads to corrosion around solder joints and lots of other *interesting* misery.  You really don't want to learn first hand as I have.  One of the main reasons I have a tiny work area in my house rather than a large work area in my shop is humidity.

The photo is a tool holder I made of 18 gauge (0.040")  aluminum sheet and mounted on a $13  articulated monitor mount.  It's tucked back in the RH corner along with the soldering gear on a sliding platform.  It's very easy to make.  I'll eventually get around to posting about how to do it.  It took me a couple of iterations to sort out.  Having a tool holder designed for *your* tools is far superior to trying to use a "one size fits all".

[glue_ru]

+1 on the knee braces, one day you'll wish you had added them, at least 3, one on each end and one centered would provide 10x support and stability.
After decades of building experience, that design will last, but never with a 100's or a 1000 pounds on it, it will eventually leverage/split the wall studs apart.

[rhb]

My thought was short 6-8" braces on each stud.  I *have* seen a number of metal clips fail.

Side fastened to the horizontal member and in compression against the stud, there will *never* be a problem unless you exceed the strength of a 2x4.

[vinito]

"it depends o n the area alot"

Yeah I agree. Fortunately my basement is already dry. I've been here 19 years.

I did a little looking and it appears I can get some laminate flooring atop some insulating underlayment and add an electric heater (draws roughly 350W) layer under it for pretty frugal money. I think I'd be relatively happy with just a bit of insulation, but an actual warm floor would probably be pretty sweet.

As for the bench, a single support sags around 1/16" when I put all my fat on the outside end. There are 9 of them, plus a plywood top. I figure it will maybe see maximum 50lbs or so on it total... ever. It's an extravagant desk folks. I hammer and slam on the benches in the shop. This one is for electronics, computer and other hobby things.

"My thought was short 6-8" braces on each stud."
That is pretty much what I did. Glued & screwed, so it's pretty much all one board now really. Screws mostly just clamp until the glue sets up. Wood glue has impressive strength. Not sure if you noticed so I'll zoom in.