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Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« on: July 29, 2017, 02:31:30 am »
Hi
I want to set up a DIY print station/storage server. I read around online and I found CUPS for Raspberry Pi. The thing is though, raspberry pi seems pretty expensive. Then I found out about CHIP (www.getchip.com). So my questions are, how can I set up a print server as well as a storage server, as far as I know, CUPS is only for printers.... So is it possible to run CUPS and another program (for HDD sharing) at the same time? if so, can the CHIP actually run it? What program do you suggest I use for HDD sharing (if I can)?


*BTW if the Hard Drive sharing is not supported, will CHIP be sufficient enough to run CUPS
*I have a 2 TB Hard drive
*I don't  know much about Linux, does CUPS run as a program on an operating system, or does it run 'as' and operating system? might be a stupid question...
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 02:43:50 am »
Depends on what you are sharing with...

Linux/Mac, NFS is best IMO
Windows, Samba
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 02:51:13 am »
CUPS is a service (print server) running on your OS, I think it's probably defacto standard setup by now, any debian/ubuntu based distro should use CUPS by default I think and will have gui configurators for them.

For sharing you want either  SAMBA  (aka Windows File Sharing) or NFS (or some other network file system, but NFS more recognised).  SAMBA will be easier generally especially if Windows is in the mix.

Anyway, Google [your distro of choice] and CUPS or SAMBA to learn about how to set them up for your specific purposes.

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Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 03:00:29 am »
Only windows machines will be accessing the server (and maybe Android)... So will CHIP be able to run CUPS and Ubuntu? and what software should I use for the storage server?


Edit: what about the sharing method that windows computers use? When you share a storage device or a folder to your network? Can you do that and what's it called?(is that what SAMBA is?)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 03:05:19 am by skillz21 »
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 03:33:46 am »
I'm not familiar with CHIP but a quick search indicates it's standard distro is Debian based, so yes, if it has a desktop I'd bet it already installs CUPS by default, and probably SAMBA.  Ubuntu is based on Debian.  Raspbian is based on Debian too.

Yes SAMBA = Windows Sharing.
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Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 03:36:08 am »
Apparently, it has like its own operating system or something... Is it possible for me to install Ubuntu on it?


Edit: it doesn't look like it has a microSD card slot, could I just install Ubuntu on it through USB?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 03:38:08 am by skillz21 »
 

Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 03:40:55 am »
and also what program do you guys recommend for use for storage sharing/server with SAMBA. (remember, i need to try and run CUPS and well)
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2017, 04:08:21 am »
I think you should just get a Raspberry PI, set it up as a desktop and get a feel for how the Linux ecosystem works, it kinda sounds like you are trying to walk before you can crawl.  I suggest a PI because you will find it easier to find what you want using Google.

A quick search as indicated shows CHIP's standard disto is Debian based, the same as is Raspbian, or Ubuntu.

CUPS is just a printserver, it takes no resources worth mentioning to have it sitting there.  Same with SAMBA.  Neither of these things are resource intensive, the bottleneck will be your network not the computer.

SAMBA is configured via text files in /etc/samba/ - there are gui configurators but I've never used one

CUPS is configured via text files in /etc/cups - but I always use a gui configurator, or the built in web one ( http://localhost:631/ )
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Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 05:43:02 am »
I want to get a Raspberry Pi.... But at about $60 AUD it seems pretty expensive. The only experience I have of Linux is running Ubuntu off a USB drive on my computer..... can I use this to get familiar with CUPS and Samba?
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 05:53:41 am »
Yeah, you can, and it is actually easier then using an embedded computer as you don't have to mess around with powering it, interfacing, etc... it allows you to concentrate on the task at hand.

As for OS, if it's a server (which it seems to be) I'd avoid Ubuntu like the plague. Run Debian, and do lots of reading. Samba will also interface with CUPS and share printers out.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2017, 06:07:19 am »
Ubuntu runs just fine as a server, all my Amazon EC2 based servers are Ubuntu.  I've used from Slackware in the 90s to Ubuntu and everything in between, including Debian itself, Ubuntu is my preference.  I won't get further into a religious distro-war argument as it would derail the thread.

As for cost, a Pi Zero would do the job and stick within the official Raspberry Pi lineup.  Or go with any of the various similar chinese Single Board Computers, OrangePi, BananaPi, NanoPI.... just if you are starting out with Linux, or with Single Board Computers, I would suggest sticking with the solution with a larger user-base behind it, namely Raspberry.
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Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 06:23:59 am »
So I could get a Pi Zero for about $14 AUD... I'd have to use three extra adapters to use it though. So the mini HDMI to HDMI adapter, Micro USB to USB and a USB hub.... I don't have a HDMI to HDMI adapter so I'd have to get buy that.... Should I get a Pi Zero? It might be cheaper... I'm not even sure anymore. What do you guys think?


Edit: I had a look on eBay... then I realised the Pi Zero doesn't have wifi. :'( Ok, so basically, including postage, Using the Pi Zero, the whole thing is going to cost me about $20 AUD (always AUD) the CHIP I think will cost about $12 without postage...
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:46:23 am by skillz21 »
 

Offline skillz21Topic starter

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 06:47:39 am »
Also, a question about the Pi Zero. I need to use a Micro USB to USB OTG adapter (http://r.ebay.com/updOYP), won't I? A simple wifi dongle like this (http://r.ebay.com/YCQBv3) should work, right? And this (http://r.ebay.com/UTWkf0) for the HDMI?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:52:11 am by skillz21 »
 

Offline Naguissa

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 08:44:51 am »
I have prepared a NAS using a Banana Pi M1 (cheap board, with one sata and 1gb RAM).

It's spanish, but I wrote detailed instructions.

Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk


Online alm

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2017, 09:25:23 am »
Do not expect fast I/O from SBCs that use a single USB 2.0 bus for both storage and networking (e.g. Raspberry Pi, presumably the CHIP). It will probably have trouble saturating a 100 MBit network connection, never mind supporting Gigabit. That is pretty pathetic compared to even an entry level consumer NAS, but might be enough if you use it for small files or are patient. Filling that 2 TB drive could easily take a week.
 
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Offline Naguissa

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2017, 09:38:37 am »
Do not expect fast I/O from SBCs that use a single USB 2.0 bus for both storage and networking (e.g. Raspberry Pi, presumably the CHIP). It will probably have trouble saturating a 100 MBit network connection, never mind supporting Gigabit. That is pretty pathetic compared to even an entry level consumer NAS, but might be enough if you use it for small files or are patient. Filling that 2 TB drive could easily take a week.

Banana Pi M1, around 30EUR:

  • Native Gigabit support, no usb chip
  • Native SATA port (old standard, but still no USB converter chip)
  • Dual core, 2x1GHz
  • 1 Gb DDR3 RAM
  • A lot of connections (HDMI, audio, IR, onboar mic, etc)
  • Typical R-PI GPIO
  • 3 USB 2.0 connectors (2 full size + 1 microUSB OTG + other microUSB only for power, no USB function there)

It's an old A20 chip, but still pretty good. Currently working as NAS + Leech box with:

1Tb SATA on SATA + other the same with an USB convertor in RAID1.
Old PATA disk for mldonkey downloads.
One USB disk; one that I used to carry data among PCs.

 
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Offline dave_k

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 10:45:09 am »
Edit: I had a look on eBay... then I realised the Pi Zero doesn't have wifi.

The new Pi Zero W does  .. US$10 from AdaFruit :-+
I'm using one as a Air Play receiver, strapped to the back of my mini hifi.
 

Online alm

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2017, 11:12:35 am »
Banana Pi M1, around 30EUR:
[...]

Yes, I specifically used a restrictive relative clause to indicate that my statement only applied to the subset of SBCs that connect the Ethernet interface (and any storage you might want to connect beyond an SD card) to the USB bus. I would expect a substantially better performance from something like a Banana PI or Orange Pi.

But as has already been stated, there is some advantage to picking a popular board with extensive documentation and community support if you are new to Linux. Searching for 'raspberry pi cups' gives dozens of hits on configuring the Raspberry Pi as print server. Searching for 'banana pi cups' gives information on how to make desert :P.

Dave touched on some of those issues in this video:
 
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Offline GarthyD

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2017, 12:00:35 pm »
I would personally recommend a Raspberry Pi 3 (or maybe a Pi 2 being sold cheap) if you are new to this area as they are widely supported. If you want wireless, get a Pi 3. Leave out the Zero and Zero W for now, they're not the best first single board computer.

If this is not to your liking, here are some starting points to locate something more suitable:

http://www.google.com/search?q=single+board+computer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers

Whatever you select, it will run an operating system. It will likely be Linux-based. Debian is a Linux-based operating system. Ubuntu, which you prefer, is based on Debian. Many of the operating systems you see on single board computers will frequently be based on Debian. So, with just two degrees of separation (Ubuntu to Debian to whatever they use), the system should be reasonably familiar to you, but not identical. A Raspberry Pi will run Raspbian, for example, which is based on Debian. The level of support and stability is usually tied to the popularity of the board. More sales means more time making sure their operating system is stable. So pick something popular as your first board as it'll be easier. Hence the Pi suggestion.

Upon this operating system, you can run software. CUPS is software that will manage printing. Samba is software that will manage file sharing. You could use Kodi to turn it into a media centre. ssh for secure remote logins. Apache to make it a webserver. You could install emulators to play old console and arcade games. And so on. The better the system, the more resources that will be available for it, meaning that you can run more things at the same time and have them run well. Go for something with a good balance of resources. Again, look at a Pi.

About Ubuntu and Debian, from Ubuntu's website:

https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian

So don't be afraid of a Debian-based distro and lock yourself into just using Ubuntu.

C.H.I.P. appears to use a Debian-based operating system.

I hope this helps. SBCs are lots of fun.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 12:09:03 pm by GarthyD »
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2017, 02:51:49 pm »
OK, the Raspberry PI 3 costs more than the CHIP (and a lot of others).  OTOH, everything that can be done with a PI has been done, lots of times, and resources are available.

How much is your time worth?  I price my time at $100/hr.  Mind you, NOBODY will pay me anywhere near that much but I like neat numbers.  If using the PI will save me 1/2 hour over the lifetime of the project, it's a done deal.

The bizarre way that CHIP updates its kernel is more than I can stand.  Apparently, I have to TAR the /home/chip directory and then move the tarball to a cloud service.  It sounds like I have to reinstall any added packages.  Not having an SD card is a serious limitation.

I can't quite get around the idea that the CHIP outputs composite video and if I want VGA or HDMI I have to buy a DIP board.  And then I have to connect up a one-wire EEPROM to keep the configuration data.

I would spend a LONG TIME reading the CHIP web page/documentation.  I'm pretty convinced that I would prefer the PI.  OTOH, I had that position coming in...
 

Offline jiro

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2017, 07:57:19 pm »
skillz21 You don't need to change the SO to Ubuntu, since they have basically the same (Ubuntu is derived from Debian) sot for what you are planning both works fine.

In the other hand I'd suggest to install a virtual machine and do some testing there with debian and learn how to configure what you need, basically cups and samba (they can work together as you can read in the samba wiki so in this way is easier to learn the basics that you need before struggling with samba and cups in an single board computer (RPI, orange or whatever you decide to use).

And you can do learn while you wait until have the actual hardware to install the server.
 

Offline boffin

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2017, 08:53:11 pm »
Hi
I want to set up a DIY print station/storage server. I read around online and I found CUPS for Raspberry Pi. The thing is though, raspberry pi seems pretty expensive. Then I found out about CHIP (www.getchip.com). So my questions are, how can I set up a print server as well as a storage server, as far as I know, CUPS is only for printers.... So is it possible to run CUPS and another program (for HDD sharing) at the same time? if so, can the CHIP actually run it? What program do you suggest I use for HDD sharing (if I can)?


*BTW if the Hard Drive sharing is not supported, will CHIP be sufficient enough to run CUPS
*I have a 2 TB Hard drive
*I don't  know much about Linux, does CUPS run as a program on an operating system, or does it run 'as' and operating system? might be a stupid question...

Maybe not the best choice of a home project, as it's pretty hard to beat the price of some of the off the shelf units (QNAP for example) which package everything pretty nicely, and have much faster SATA interfaces than a RPi
 

Offline djnz

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2017, 06:57:24 am »
The CUPS print server will run fine on anything that runs linux, but the file server part is a different story. I run a rudimentary NAS / file server with a USB drive connected to a raspberry pi 3 and the performance leaves a lot to be desired. Disk read - write is quite slow, even when a beefy power adapter is used for the raspberry pi and the disk is externally powered.

If you have an old laptop / desktop lying around (even something that's 8-10 years old), using that might be a good idea. It won't be as power efficient as a raspberry pi though.
 

Offline bitman

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2017, 02:17:36 pm »
Hi
I want to set up a DIY print station/storage server. I read around online and I found CUPS for Raspberry Pi. The thing is though, raspberry pi seems pretty expensive. Then I found out about CHIP (www.getchip.com). So my questions are, how can I set up a print server as well as a storage server, as far as I know, CUPS is only for printers.... So is it possible to run CUPS and another program (for HDD sharing) at the same time? if so, can the CHIP actually run it? What program do you suggest I use for HDD sharing (if I can)?


*BTW if the Hard Drive sharing is not supported, will CHIP be sufficient enough to run CUPS
*I have a 2 TB Hard drive
*I don't  know much about Linux, does CUPS run as a program on an operating system, or does it run 'as' and operating system? might be a stupid question...

Finally a topic I can help with! :)  While I'm an utter newbie with electronics, when it comes to computers, IT and in particular Linux, you're in my domain (job, hobby and haven't run Windows for 10+ years now).

There's a lot here - let's start with "chips". The project scares me - they announce they're working on their own processor chip, so that puts into question how/what source can be compiled and managed on there. Their github is very inactive and slow - using Linux that's not a good idea. Their buildroot is 9-11 months old. Bottom line is, inactive projects don't patch, don't fix, don't move to be compatible with changes. It means that getting "new" things on there is going to be hard if not impossible unless you know how to compile from source for that particular chipset. It's not trivial.

This is why I like the PI - it's standard ARM and most major distributions support it. Meaning they not only create a build compiled for ARM, but pre-configure it for the PI device to understand the hardware on it, including applications to use it.  Going for small embedded systems, I would go with a major distribution's ARM/PI option anytime. This means you have a large selection of applications and options, and most likely others have tried to do what you're doing so there will be help. I really get the impression that CHIP is about BUYING their software on that little gadget. Meaning little to no choice.  It's interesting what's considered high prices. You won't get much of a server with US$60 - in that light, a PI is extremely cheap (there's a but - it comes further down). Since it's a complete system (sans realtime clock) - USB, DVI etc. makes making a small computer like device easy.

CUPS - a very powerful printing service for Linux. This is the important part. I love CUPS. When I connect to the corporate network, the list of printers automatically expands to show me what printers is in the office I'm connected to - that's all CUPS. It's been a long time since I installed printers on Windows - back in the days, it was hours of installing from a CD. We just got a new printer here at home, and I had my wife's and my Linux based desktops configured in about 2 minutes. NO installs needed. HOWEVER, in a later post you state that you are only going to use Windows machines. That's going to be your 'pain' here. Getting drivers for Windows working, getting them connected to CUPS, making sure CUPS exposes the printer and the right interface, with passthru for Windows etc. - for small home networks, in particular if you just have one printer and haven't worked with setting up servers, I would recommend getting a printer with WiFi/physical network and just connect every device you have to it.  We use CUPS as a print server when we have security concerns, and if the printers don't have networking and you for instance have 2-3 printers connected via USB and want to share them.  It will be a lot cheaper (easier) to get a USB print server that translate the USB to a network interface, vs. going down the CUPS route if you just have one printer that happens to not be networked https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6PF41B0120

Traditionally we would use SAMBA to expose printers to Windows. I'm told (remember, I don't use it) that modern Windows versions can connect directly to CUPS with some tweaks. A quick google produced this http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/HOW-TO_Connect_Windows_to_a_CUPS_Network_Printer which I have no clue if it's correct or not. It certainly does not deal with drivers and configuration of CUPS to make links like this work.

This drives me to the last point - file sharing. It's dirt easy, HOWEVER a PI is way too slow for that to be useful for you. Or let me rephrase, it depends highly on WHAT you want to do with the file server. If you're doing video editing, having multiple systems access different files at the same time, the IO of a PI is willfully incapable for supporting your need. However, if you can live with slow IO - that you use the fileserver from one system at a time for non-intensive IO operations like archiving photos - all you need is patience. SAMBA again used to be the way to go here. But there are much better solutions today - solutions that will scale. You've probably seen pictures of multiple PIs all tied together in a stack and headlines talking about a PI cluster. This is what is needed to get proper IO bandwidth on a PI. Storage systems like Gluster will span multiple systems and present a single logical representation of data that's in reality stripped/mirrored across multiple systems and it can create that point as SMB so Windows can connect. THAT SAID - you'll need to think about your network need here. Sharing means security. SAMBA unfortunately gives the impression that security is "share" based. It's not - it's file based. All SAMBA does is store all files with root or similar priveleges and then it tries to map your username to it's own security. In other words, it BYPASSES security to implement it's own pseudo option. Gluster and NFS do NOT do that. But that means you'll need an IDM if you have more than just a few computers you want to connect (IDM=Identification Management) which in the Microsoft world is called Active Directory (I don't think they've renamed it). It sounds like a lot - it's not. It's a very easy install today with something called "FreeIPA". The trick is connecting your windows machines to it, so you authenticate on them once, and never again. Worst case, you'll have to login every time you need to access a file. FreeIPA comes with "plugins" for Windows so this can be done. For Linux I just install the ipa-client and presto I'm done :)

All in all, as you start adding what you need you can see the complexity increases.   You're not the first wanting to do this, so there are nice package solutions that do all of this out of the box. One is FreeNAS - and it's very very easy to install on a small traditional system. Scanning the forums everyone is stating what I did above that IO will suck and there are a few technical challenges that can be overcome. But it has it all built in, and a great graphical user-interface (Web) to manage it all. Users, SAMBA, etc. etc.  That said, if you want anything performing out of your network, don't use PIs. A i3 with 4-8GB of memory will be more expensive, but it will run a single SSD nicely and really perform to your home need.

Wow - this got to be longer than I expected.  Bottom line here is, think about what you want to achieve. If it's just a single printer, single workstation there are better ways to do things. Otherwise you may be venturing into areas you're not prepared to attack yet :)
 

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Re: Linux Print Server/Storage Server
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2017, 02:37:15 pm »
Traditionally we would use SAMBA to expose printers to Windows. I'm told (remember, I don't use it) that modern Windows versions can connect directly to CUPS with some tweaks. A quick google produced this http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/HOW-TO_Connect_Windows_to_a_CUPS_Network_Printer which I have no clue if it's correct or not. It certainly does not deal with drivers and configuration of CUPS to make links like this work.
Yes, that method works. Should require no configuration on the CUPS side, since CUPS exposes an ipp printer by default. Better documentation is here. Depending on how the printer was set up in CUPS, you may either use the original driver (for a printer in RAW mode) or a generic Postscript driver. If the only clients will be Windows computers, a raw queue and the manufacturer's printer drivers might be the easiest solution. Unless you want to avoid those huge HP driver packages ;).

An alternative route, in addition to ipp or Samba, is Google cloud print for CUPS. I recall it being harder to setup, but the advantage is that it will interface easily with mobile devices.


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