Author Topic: looking for a good digital multimeter  (Read 37967 times)

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Offline jordanp123

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2017, 11:55:09 pm »
I've gotta vote for the UT139C, for a beginner and for the price point  in my opinion it's an excellent meter.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2017, 01:39:18 am »
People, this is a beginner asking what is a good meter buy. Those who are recommending something with 830 in the model number are doing so based on your experience where to not use it. Do you not see the problem? "Experts" recommending a meter that needs experience to use safely to a beginner?  |O
 

Online IanB

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2017, 01:58:30 am »
The UT139C does look like a good choice for a first general purpose meter.
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2017, 09:54:11 am »
Quote
There is always a chance that a lightning strikes your mains power line while you are measuring with an 830 that kills you,
You are starting to get the point. When something DOES happen - you WANT the meter to give you as much protection as possible.

The DT830 (and all the derivatives) is a 30, or more, year old design, with little to no thought about safe design.

Modern designed meters have lots of design measures to make sure the user is safe, at the expense of destroying components in the meter.

If you want to see the difference between safe meters and bad meters, watch Dave's video where he purposefully destroys DMMs :


The unsafe meters just explode. The safe meter contains the explosion (all be it, with the Fluke77 you get a knob flying at you).

If you want to see how catastrophic DMM explosion looks like (MJLorton's visit to Fluke Labs):


About 6min30sec into the video, the Harbour freight explodes in a plasma fire ball  ;D
This is exactly what you want to be protected from !

Yes, the test conditions are contrived. Yes, the exact conditions to blow the DMM up are so contrived that they are unlikely to happen.
BUT you want to be protected from it IF it ever does happen.

As my analogy goes :
How many times have you corssed the road?
Have you ever been run over?
Does that mean you will never be run over?

Edit: If you are new and are worried after seeing these videos, do not be. The point is - pick a safe meter and the meter will protect you (as much as it can).
Pick a cheap non safe meter and you get no protection at all and then it is down to pure chance if/when you get hurt.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 09:56:50 am by MosherIV »
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2017, 11:31:47 am »
i'm going to pick from the three mention before Uni-t, Amprobe, or Klein, Most people agreed that these would be safer, and a good to learn on.
 

Offline daybyter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2017, 12:11:43 pm »
No matter what meter you will buy: as a beginner stay away from mains, open tv sets or power supplies. You can learn a lot with a arduino starter kit or similar projects. Look for people, who have more experience. Ham radio clubs, hacker spaces, repair cafes, RC model clubs or vintage computer clubs are are places where you can meet such people as an example.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2017, 06:45:02 pm »
...
...
As my analogy goes :
How many times have you corssed the road?
Have you ever been run over?
Does that mean you will never be run over?

Edit: If you are new and are worried after seeing these videos, do not be. The point is - pick a safe meter and the meter will protect you (as much as it can).
Pick a cheap non safe meter and you get no protection at all and then it is down to pure chance if/when you get hurt.

I don't have the stats.  I would guess, more people are killed riding bicycle than by exploding DMMs.

I think selling ice blocks will soon be back in style in London since refrigerators may explode ending with massive deaths.

There is always a trade off.  You know, in the USA, seesaws, merry-go-rounds...  all disappeared from playgrounds in the name of safety.  Now all you can do in playgrounds is to light up a joint.

Life is not safe.  We all have to find our own middle ground between living like an agoraphobia victim at home or living at the nudist colony without the slightest "security blanket".
 

Offline tooki

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2017, 08:33:23 pm »
Stay with multimeter manufacturers, refrain from rebranded ones unless you trust that brand (say, Dave's BM235 or those Keithley rebranded Fluke).
Which Keithleys are rebranded Flukes? Are you sure you don't mean the Tektronix bench meters?
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2017, 09:06:13 pm »
Is the 830b, Is like the Harbor Freight Cen-tech meter?

While looking to see what the 830b look like the Innova 3320 pop up, how is it? I'm not interested in the 3320 but just wondering.
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2017, 10:12:14 pm »
I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600V
                                             Klein MM600  CAT IV 600V   CAT III 1000V

What does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2017, 10:13:11 pm »
Quote
  Is the 830b, Is like the Harbor Freight Cen-tech meter?     
Pretty much yes. The Harbor Freight has an on/off switch but the DT830 does not, otherwise they are the same
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2017, 10:29:53 pm »
Quote
    I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600V
                                             Klein MM600  CAT IV 600V   CAT III 1000V

What does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?   
The CAT ratings are a little tecnical, search for 'dmm cat rating' and read the explanation by Fluke if you really want to know the full details.

They basicaly mean the the meter is guarentted up to the stated voltage. The CAT catagory (3 and 4) specify in what context the voltage applies to, 3 simply means 'after home fuse box' and 4 means before fuse box. DO NOT MEASURE ANYTHING BEFORE THE MIANS FUSEBOX UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

I would say no, the Klein is no more safer than the Amprobe. Both have been certified to their stated values. Would you want to measure something approaching 1K Volt? It is mianly a specification tick in the box thing.
You will occaisionally ready here on the forum about some fool that tried to measure 1000s of volts and fried their dmm. It is rare to need to measure 100s of volts (other than mians), even then exercise extreme caution!

Hope that helps.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2017, 10:30:14 pm »
I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600V
                                             Klein MM600  CAT IV 600V   CAT III 1000V

What does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?

It is a bit too simple to say it is safer. You need to think of application. The higher the CAT rating, the higher the level of energy in a circuit it is approved to measure without permitting any harm to the user should something go wrong. Get any of the three mentioned and don't worry about their differences in CAT ratings too much.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2017, 10:35:20 pm »
I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600V
                                             Klein MM600  CAT IV 600V   CAT III 1000V

What does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?
Yes. The specifications indicate this is the case.

A few months ago a Brazilian entertainer tried to demonstrate how to use a DT830 on a 220V circuit. She was not properly trained and a mess up happened.


This kinda gives an idea how serious an outlet incident can be.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2017, 11:18:15 am »
You are right, I was assuming that it would be used correctly and carefully.
Exactly. :wtf:

Always assume the worst IMHO (i.e. better safe than sorry IME).  Hadn't seen the YTV previously, but damn ...  :o (as in she's hot as all get out!).  >:D
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 11:25:30 am by nanofrog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2017, 12:35:45 pm »
I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600V
                                             Klein MM600  CAT IV 600V   CAT III 1000V

What does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?

CATIII 600V is rated safe for a 6kV pulse overload.
CATIII 1000V / CAT IV 600V is rated for 8kV pulse overload.
Both are more than enough (overkill actually) for basic home mains outlet use.
The issues come with cheap meters that are not properly independently tested. e.g. UL / ETL listed.
Anyone can legally claim CAT II/IV on their meter, but the good ones are independently tested.
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2017, 10:58:12 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anybody knows approximately much a calibration of a DMM will cost?
 

Offline daybyter

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Offline kalel

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2017, 01:01:45 am »
Out of curiosity, does anybody knows approximately much a calibration of a DMM will cost?

I spent $150 to calibrate my F289 at Tek cal center. It ended up costing me $250 more due to the batteries Tek supplied with its cal service leaked in my meter and they refuse to take responsibility, neither Fluke. They claim checking batteries is user's responsibility. I ended up paying Fluke another $250 to get it fixed.

So if you have cheap meters, perhaps you could calibrate them according to the calibrated expensive meter, but if there isn't one, then perhaps buying some 0.1% resistors and such?
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2017, 01:06:11 am »
Its seems like in my case it would be better just buying a new meter, instead of getting it calibrated.
 

Online IanB

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2017, 02:00:45 am »
Its seems like in my case it would be better just buying a new meter, instead of getting it calibrated.

If you purchase a meter for general utility and hobby purposes then there is never any purpose or value in getting it calibrated. It would be a complete waste of money. You simply buy the meter and use it. End of story.
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2017, 02:30:17 am »
Its seems like in my case it would be better just buying a new meter, instead of getting it calibrated.
You are overthinking the value of calibration. 99.9% of hobbyists use their meters without seeing a calibration throughout the meter's life.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2017, 10:26:42 am »
The only reason I ask about calibrating is when the meter gets old, been drop a lot/ abuse I know that the meter can be calibrated if I wanted to have it done.
 

Offline carnageTopic starter

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2017, 10:36:06 am »
I called Klein Tools and talk to one of there tech support. He told me that for want I want it for the MM600 is a little overkill and recommend the MM400. He also said if I need any assistant to give him a call and he go over the meter on the phone telling me what everything does (like a little training course).
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: looking for a good digital multimeter
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2017, 11:07:10 am »
Quote
The only reason I ask about calibrating is when the meter gets old, been drop a lot/ abuse I know that the meter can be calibrated if I wanted to have it done.

Firstly, there are 2 types of calibration :
1. verify the meter is within specification, checked against cal standards
2. Adjust meter to within specification, adjusted to the cal standards

Type 1 is what most people get. It is important that meters are NOT adjusted but simply the Drift is logged so that the difference over time can be accounted for.
The kind of drift we are talking about here is in the 10s of microVolt (0.00001V)

The only time Type 2 happens is if a meter is repaired or has components changed that affect the calibration.

All meters are calibrated by the manufacturer during production.
As other have said, most home users never have their meters calibration checked - why because DMMs are so stable now a days and how many people care if the meter reads 0.00001 lower or higher.
Rough abuse is NOT going to change a digitally stored calibration like it may have done with the old pot based calibrated meters.
 


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