multimeter suggestions (bigger budget this time around)

[doctorm]

ok so i think i posted a similar question about a good multimeter for an starting out electronics hobbiest a while back and since then the multimeter shootout came out also and things were setting up for me to get either the amprobe or the extech.

well just last week i had jury duty (bore) and i got a big check (yay!) lol

now my budget as increased to about $200 or more if needed.

so my question is can anybody suggest any good multimeters with this price range that they have dealt with and had no problems or anything from. i know that if you go with a good brand of multimeter at a higher price you shouldnt but from what i learned from the multimeter shootout, even a good looking multimeter might have its issues.

also ill go ahead and tell you what i am looking for to help out. i checked this specs with the fluke multimeters and couldnt get any in the price range to have these features but if you have a opinion about this id appreciate it. thanks

specs:
AC/DC V:mV and up
AC/DC A: ua and up
capacitence: low nf up to alot of uf or even mf
resistence: normal ranges are fine
continuity
diode
frequency (optional)

thanks for your help.

[alm]

I believe a few people here got a used Fluke 87 from Ebay for around $200, that would probably be my choice. Of course you don't (usually) have warranty, so it does come with a higher risk.

Your requested features look good, I wouldn't concentrate too much on capacitance and frequency, dedicated instruments do this much better anyway, so it's just a nice extra in my opinion, not a core feature. You should be able to get a 4.5 digit meter for that money, but I'd rather choose a quality 3.5 digit meter than a crappy 4.5 digit one.

When I was doing research a number of years ago, there wasn't really much between a <= $50 cheapy and an expensive Fluke, but that might have changed by now. Extech and Amprobe appear to produce usable stuff. I have heard comments about Extech having tight specs but not holding these for even one year, but I'm not sure what model that was referring to. No idea about the stability of Amprobe meters.

I would try to wait for the $100 shout-out (although it will probably take a while), some of the models might be suitable for you, and more expensive models might have things in common with cheaper models.

[EEVblog]

Most of the models in the $100 shootout would be suitable, albeit at 0.5% basic DC accuracy.
If you want better than that accuracy and a big brand name, I don't think there all is much choice between $100 and the Fluke 87.
The Agilent U1241B comes to mind at around $200. 0.09%
The U1242B does logging for $20 more.

Agilent were supposed to send me one but didn't, I should probably chase them.

So I'd say either that Agilent or a 2nd hand Fluke 87.

Dave.

[doctorm]

i looked at the Agilent U1241B and it looks good but im not sure on its specs. i found a data sheet on one website and it was showing two different specs for the meter. wierd lol

[alm]

Specs look OK. Accuracy is slightly worse than Fluke 87V (factor 2 at most, not that significant). 1V max for diode test is low (not even enough for standard LED's, let alone high-power LED's or zeners, I think Dave complained about this in a previous blog). Screen update rate is slightly faster (not sure about bar graph), not sure about the speed of the minmax function (compared to the 250us of fast min/max of the Fluke 87). Looks like a real 4.5 digit meter, not an almost 4.5 digit meter (which you have to switch to 4.5 digits and will only show 3.5 digits in some modes). Bit puzzled by the four AAA, and the fact that they don't recommend NiMH (low self-discharge NiMH is perfect for these applications in my opinion).

Purely from the specs, I don't see why the Fluke 87V would be worth the extra $150 or whatever it is. On specs, they seem quite close. But I would watch Dave's review of the Agilent U1252A(?), I remember some irritating details that can kill usability but not won't be apparent from specs, but this was a previous revision, and some of them were about the OLED screen and its power usage.

[EEVblog]

Yes, the OLED version U1253B is a power hog, but they also have an LCD version of the same meter. The U1251/2B

The U1242B looks like good value, and even comes with a calc certificate and report which the Flukes don't.
But of course I'd bet on the Fluke 87 still holding it's spec in 10 years time.

Dave.

[MrPlacid]

Purely from the specs, I don't see why the Fluke 87V would be worth the extra $150 or whatever it is. On specs, they seem quite close.

I guess it's what's not on the specs that Fluke 87V cost more. Don't forget EEVBlog episode #66. I think Dave did Fluke a huge service with that episode alone. My nephews love that episode.

[alm]

That was about the Fluke 28(-II I think), basically a ruggized version of the Fluke 87-V, I don't think the 87 would have survived all that. Plus I don't think I've ever abused a multimeter (including Flukes) that way, I don't think I've even dropped one from bench height. In my opinion, being able to survive a dunking or three meter drop is useful in some industrial environment, eg. when working on lighting or HVAC, but not really for hobby use. If you need that type of multimeter, what are you going to do for soldering iron, power supply or function generator?

It's quite possible that there are flaws that are not apparent from the datasheet, like long term stability, but the datasheet is all we have without the real thing. I would check Dave's review for any issues with the U1253A not relating to the OLED display, I don't think he though the build quality was inferior to Fluke. Many design features are likely to be similar between the U124x and U125x series. Keep in mind that we're comparing a brand new Agilent meter with warranty to a used Fluke with no warranty and which may even have defects (though it likely works fine). I would trust Agilent as a brand, but would worry that it's a re-branded item manufactured by someone like Rigol, like many of their other low-end products. These are usually much lower quality with less support than the real Agilent products.

[EEVblog]

That was about the Fluke 28(-II I think), basically a ruggized version of the Fluke 87-V, I don't think the 87 would have survived all that. Plus I don't think I've ever abused a multimeter (including Flukes) that way, I don't think I've even dropped one from bench height. In my opinion, being able to survive a dunking or three meter drop is useful in some industrial environment, eg. when working on lighting or HVAC, but not really for hobby use. If you need that type of multimeter, what are you going to do for soldering iron, power supply or function generator?

It's quite possible that there are flaws that are not apparent from the datasheet, like long term stability, but the datasheet is all we have without the real thing. I would check Dave's review for any issues with the U1253A not relating to the OLED display, I don't think he though the build quality was inferior to Fluke. Many design features are likely to be similar between the U124x and U125x series. Keep in mind that we're comparing a brand new Agilent meter with warranty to a used Fluke with no warranty and which may even have defects (though it likely works fine). I would trust Agilent as a brand, but would worry that it's a re-branded item manufactured by someone like Rigol, like many of their other low-end products. These are usually much lower quality with less support than the real Agilent products.

Unfortunately long term stability is something I can't really test, so I've just gotta go with a gut feel based on the construction and components, the company/design group history etc. I'd love to have a proper thermal chamber to at least do some thermal cycles for example, but I don't have access to one any more I'm afraid.
I've actually heard something bad about the "A" model Agilents and how they would drift over the long term (1 year+), and that's why they have changed to the Orange "B" series on all their models to secretly fix it. I don't know how true this is though, my meter has no problems so far and I have heard not heard any other bad news.
I like the Agilent meter, it's pretty good. Not as well designed and made as the Fluke's, but still pretty good.
Agilent were supposed to send me B version of the 1253 and 1242, but internal changes meant I lost my contact. I might have to get onto them again once the backlog of current gear is gone.
Although their meters are designed by the old Escort design group in Malaysia they bought, Agilent will stand by their gear and would have pretty tight control over their processes, so that's a big positive.
If I had $200 to spend on a new meter I'd probably get the Agilent.
0.09%, 10000 count, cal certificate and report, and the Agilent badge for $200 is a pretty good deal I think.

The Extech 530 would be a big competitor at $200 and 0.06% 40,000 count.

Dave.

[saturation]

I concur with Alm and Dave.  If you are fixed to ~ $200, the Agilent is a good buy, and any competitor would have to be weighed on non-spec sheet issues such as usability; you'd have to have one in your hand and give it a go, i.e., a test drive.

But if you can wrangle the extra $100 for an 87V, and assuming you are not likely to have it stolen or dropped from beyond 3' into concrete, it will last you a lifetime.  The Fluke is version 5, but its mostly unchanged since its original design made in the late 1980s.  Although there are other models of Fluke, for general purpose, the 87V IMHO is the best there is.

While no formal data exists on long term stability, some of us older dogs who own Fluke DMM can attest that past 20 years old, the DMM still reads true, without calibration.

DMM designs and models come and go, I would wonder why they do, and the 87 remains.  The ideal specs haven't changed much.

On the side, Agilent's promotion using "fashion skins" for DMM in this model line is worrisome.  With measurement and safety in mind, you must to be able to confirm settings of your knobs beyond any distraction, and these stickers speak for themselves.  Sure the inputs are protected, but why risk errors in making your settings?

That was about the Fluke 28(-II I think), basically a ruggized version of the Fluke 87-V, I don't think the 87 would have survived all that. Plus I don't think I've ever abused a multimeter (including Flukes) that way, I don't think I've even dropped one from bench height. In my opinion, being able to survive a dunking or three meter drop is useful in some industrial environment, eg. when working on lighting or HVAC, but not really for hobby use. If you need that type of multimeter, what are you going to do for soldering iron, power supply or function generator?

It's quite possible that there are flaws that are not apparent from the datasheet, like long term stability, but the datasheet is all we have without the real thing. I would check Dave's review for any issues with the U1253A not relating to the OLED display, I don't think he though the build quality was inferior to Fluke. Many design features are likely to be similar between the U124x and U125x series. Keep in mind that we're comparing a brand new Agilent meter with warranty to a used Fluke with no warranty and which may even have defects (though it likely works fine). I would trust Agilent as a brand, but would worry that it's a re-branded item manufactured by someone like Rigol, like many of their other low-end products. These are usually much lower quality with less support than the real Agilent products.

Unfortunately long term stability is something I can't really test, so I've just gotta go with a gut feel based on the construction and components, the company/design group history etc. I'd love to have a proper thermal chamber to at least do some thermal cycles for example, but I don't have access to one any more I'm afraid.
I've actually heard something bad about the "A" model Agilents and how they would drift over the long term (1 year+), and that's why they have changed to the Orange "B" series on all their models to secretly fix it. I don't know how true this is though, my meter has no problems so far and I have heard not heard any other bad news.
I like the Agilent meter, it's pretty good. Not as well designed and made as the Fluke's, but still pretty good.
Agilent were supposed to send me B version of the 1253 and 1242, but internal changes meant I lost my contact. I might have to get onto them again once the backlog of current gear is gone.
Although their meters are designed by the old Escort design group in Malaysia they bought, Agilent will stand by their gear and would have pretty tight control over their processes, so that's a big positive.
If I had $200 to spend on a new meter I'd probably get the Agilent.
0.09%, 10000 count, cal certificate and report, and the Agilent badge for $200 is a pretty good deal I think.

The Extech 530 would be a big competitor at $200 and 0.06% 40,000 count.

Dave.

[slburris]

I got my Fluke 87-V from amazon.com for < $290 last year.  To bring
the price down farther, I scoured my house for change, and took
it to a nearby supermarket that had one of those coin machines
which can issue Amazon gift certificates for your change.   That
knocked another $40 off.

So if I don't think about it too much, I picked up my meter for about $250
brand new :-) It's the best meter I've every owned and the *only* one
I will use to poke around line voltage.

Scott

[MrPlacid]

slburris , simply amazing.

[saturation]

Impressive!  One thing to watch out for are online coupons too before you buy.  It depends on the vendor.  I found an expired one that worked; it took $45 off a $400 item.

slburris , simply amazing.

[slburris]

Ouch, looks like the 87-V is currently $314 at Amazon.

Looking up the price history at camelcamelcamel, it's
been everywhere from $284 to $379 in the past 9 months.
Don't you just love how Amazon changes prices almost daily?

Scott

[saturation]

Ah, another camel^3 fan 

If you keep your eyes out, deals may appear, at Amazon still, for $255 shipped:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WTFFPY?ie=UTF8&seller=AYG01IYKXBWQI&sn=mdmaga

Ouch, looks like the 87-V is currently $314 at Amazon.

Looking up the price history at camelcamelcamel, it's
been everywhere from $284 to $379 in the past 9 months.
Don't you just love how Amazon changes prices almost daily?

Scott

[alm]

I agree, the custom skins look like some marketing person lost his/her mind. If we let DMM users customize their DMM, they might be more attached to it, like it's a piece of consumer equipment for teenage girls.

Agilent definitely knows how to design stable multimeters, but these were all bench type, and use a heated zener as reference which probably uses more power than a complete hand held DMM without backlight, plus they probably didn't have that much to do with the design. It's quite possible that the Fluke 87-V is more stable, durable and scores better on the intangible usability issues, but I would have a hard time justifying that extra $100 (50%!), and I believe that is comparing MSRP vs. street pricing.

Agilent only offer three years warranty, I think Fluke offers a 'lifetime' warranty for the 87-V (which is five years or so after the 87-VI is introduced or the 87 is discontinued entirely).

[EEVblog]

On the side, Agilent's promotion using "fashion skins" for DMM in this model line is worrisome.  With measurement and safety in mind, you must to be able to confirm settings of your knobs beyond any distraction, and these stickers speak for themselves.  Sure the inputs are protected, but why risk errors in making your settings?

WTF?!

Dave.

[McPete]

O...K
Here I was thinking about buying one of those Agilents as an upgrade from my 117(home) and 179(borrowed from work). There goes that idea 

In answer to the original post, yeah, the 87V is a great choice. A lot of our protection techs have very heavily used series IIIs, and they're still damn good. They do tend to go a bit funny on low range capacitance, usually around 80% of tolerance, but still within spec. The 87IV is still a good buy, even if it looks a bit funny. If you ever want to download logged data from it, or run an automated calibration procedure, be aware it uses a different IR lead to every other Fluke IR interface product.

If you wanted datalogging, as confusing as the menus can be, the Fluke 278/289 are pretty handy, and I'd say the same of the 187/189, if you can find one second hand. They're standard issue for our instrument techs.

Also worth checking out might be the Yokogawa YT-710 and 720, if you can find one. YEW know how to do stability, and they have those nice terminal shutters to prevent brain-fart induced incorrect connections.

P.

[lhc]

Check some SANWA multimeters. Very high spec, nice build quality, respected manufacturer from Japan.

http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/overseas/

Check the PC-5000a model - best IMHO. Only one drawback - it has no backlight (?)

[alm]

How does it compare to some known quantity like the Fluke 87-V in terms of durability, build quality, usability and protection? What about calibration, service and warranty? The specs look pretty similar (from a quick glance), but so do the Agilent specs. A quick check of the price at my local distributor looks pretty close to the Fluke 87-V, so it would have to at least match and in someway improve on the Fluke 87-V to compete.

[ThunderSqueak]

...



...

Wow....  talk about distracting... and hard to read ..  Reminds me of laptop "skins".... 

[Time]

lol @ the kung fu one

[saturation]

When I lived in Asia, Sanwa was the best bang of buck meter you could get, but that's over 30 years ago.  I saved for many years to get the lower end of this model, which still works today.  I cannot understand why its still being made and still sells in Asia to the point Sanwa has major counterfeit problems with this particularly model, and others in its stable.  Before I bought the real deal, I used a fake Sanwa as it was all I could afford, and not having any faith in its measurements early on made me know that saving money and not trusting a measurement tool was foolish economy.

Some interesting counterfeit:





http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/overseas/index.php?imitation

I think most of their products are made in Japan.  Their meters are very competitive engineering wise, but local USA companies are more bang for buck given the strength of the Yen.  Its equally a reason you don't see much of European meters like Metrawatt either, the Euro is far stronger.

Check some SANWA multimeters. Very high spec, nice build quality, respected manufacturer from Japan.

http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/overseas/

Check the PC-5000a model - best IMHO. Only one drawback - it has no backlight (?)

[kek]

Just picked up the Agilent U1242B this weekend. About time I had a decent meter for my hobby. I did notice however that when in AC volts mode that the autoranging takes a few second to settle on the reading. I tried on the 120VAC in my house, it showed 150V before settling down to 122.5V after a few seconds wait. There was no problem when using manual ranging. DC mode worked instantly. Dave's review of the U1253A seemed to show this effect too (he seemed to write this off in his review because he was just trying to blow up the meter in ohms range).

Ken

[MrPlacid]

Oowwee... my eyes hurt

But, I like the display. Especially the yellow on black one.

[saturation]

Congratulations.  Can you review it for us here, and take pictures?

Just picked up the Agilent U1242B this weekend. About time I had a decent meter for my hobby. I did notice however that when in AC volts mode that the autoranging takes a few second to settle on the reading. I tried on the 120VAC in my house, it showed 150V before settling down to 122.5V after a few seconds wait. There was no problem when using manual ranging. DC mode worked instantly. Dave's review of the U1253A seemed to show this effect too (he seemed to write this off in his review because he was just trying to blow up the meter in ohms range).

Ken

[lhc]

Sanwa PC5000a costs less than 200$ with shipping in my country (Poland) compared to Fluke 87 V for about 600$ (from polish distributors). Sanwa is very good quality and high spec but for much much less than Fluke. I see that it's more expensive in your country. But still maybe you can get it from other source for less. It may be a good deal for people from Europe and Asia, here Sanwa meters are not so expensive.