Author Topic: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?  (Read 34836 times)

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Offline rhb

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2018, 02:58:30 am »
I should like to note that building a linear power supply is a reasonable beginners project.  A switching mode power supply is not.  Even very high skill MSEEs buy them rather than design them.  They are complex and it's easy to make a wrong component choice which results in high failure rates.

A linear supply consists of a fuse, transformer, two or three capacitors, an LM317, a pot, power indicator and an on/off switch.  A bit more if you add current limiting which *is* very useful.   

But take a look at:

https://www.eevblog.com/2017/10/11/eevblog-1030-20-diy-bench-power-supply/

That is certainly a good beginner project. 

Get an eBay LCR meter and put it in  proper box:

https://www.eevblog.com/2017/09/11/eevblog-1020-is-a-7-lcr-component-tester-any-good/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/$20-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/

It's minimal cost, the gear is useful even if you get better gear later.  And it gets you started.  Putting it in a box is a *lot* of the work of making something.  I've put $1 of electronics in $10 of enclosure countless times.  Things like switches and jacks add up quickly.

I'd strongly recommend setting your initial budget at around $100-150.  Go as cheap as possible (within reason) and upgrade when the cheap stuff becomes an obstacle.

Learn to repair discarded audio gear.  Use the proceeds from selling the stuff to buy test gear.

My Dad designed and built a HiFi amplifier from scratch (picked a set of tubes and went from there) back in the 50's before i even started school.  His company  moved him  and then was going to move him again 2 years later so he quit and started speculating in real estate.  He never got to  design electronics again.  He was 91 when he passed away.  I still have a truckload of WW II vintage parts.

 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2018, 05:59:04 am »
Is there any consensus on multis like the 121GW vs the BM235 multimeter? Or why the Aneng 8008 has been mentioned? This one, yes? https://www.amazon.com/Alloet-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-Voltage/dp/B072JMBLJS/
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2018, 06:42:07 am »
The best advice I can give you, which has been echoed here, is to avoid attempting to get everything at once. The electronics field is vast. You cannot, unless you have an exorbitant budget or know precisely what you'll be doing in electronics for the rest of your life, get everything at the beginning and be done with purchases.

Also, except for really high-ticket items, you'll probably have more than one of various tools and equipment because most things are good for some tasks and not others. This is also why you often won't get consensus on what to buy. Experience, personal taste, and specific requirements will steer you toward certain products versus others.

So, start small. Gain experience. See what area(s) of electronics you gravitate toward and you'll know what else you need and, if not what will best work for you, what specific requirements you have for a product in order to fulfill a specific need.

You can still buy quality, but don't expect that buying once will be the end of it. Even something like a DP832 may not be your only nor last power supply.

As for DMMs, if you're down to choosing between the 121GW and BM235, start with the BM235 unless you know specifically why you need the 121GW or spending the extra cash is negligible for your budget.

The Aneng 8008 and others (even the free Harbor Freight DMM) are often mentioned because it's useful to have multiple meters. They enable you to monitor different parts of your circuit simultaneously. They enable you to compute power consumption by measuring voltage and current, each with a different meter. Do you need that? If you're not sure, it means you don't right now. When you do, you can grab one of the free HF ones while you decide what your second quality DMM will be (maybe by then you'll know if the 121GW is what you need as a primary DMM, relegating the BM235 to secondary, for example).

Avoid analysis paralysis: don't get ahead of yourself with purchases.
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2018, 06:59:35 am »
As for DMMs, if you're down to choosing between the 121GW and BM235, start with the BM235 unless you know specifically why you need the 121GW or spending the extra cash is negligible for your budget.

Looks like the 121GW is out of stock anyway -- so BM235 it is!

The Aneng 8008 and others (even the free Harbor Freight DMM) are often mentioned because it's useful to have multiple meters. They enable you to monitor different parts of your circuit simultaneously. They enable you to compute power consumption by measuring voltage and current, each with a different meter. Do you need that? If you're not sure, it means you don't right now. When you do, you can grab one of the free HF ones while you decide what your second quality DMM will be (maybe by then you'll know if the 121GW is what you need as a primary DMM, relegating the BM235 to secondary, for example).

Free Harbor Freight DMM? Does it require going to a store or can it be done online? When I Google past threads apparently a lot of methods were either unintended or cut short.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 07:18:27 am »
I've only done it in-store, so I'm not certain about online ordering. However, their coupons usually say that they're good for both methods. Double-check the fine print on the coupon.

Important: The cheap meters generally don't have much, if any, input protection. So, if you get them, only use them on low-voltage, low-energy circuits. You'll see people say or video themselves sticking these meters in the wall outlet and go, "see, nothing wrong." Yes, indeed, they will work. But, input protection (like a warranty, an insurance policy, or a legal contract) is for the abnormal and unexpected, not the normal case.
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2018, 07:39:57 am »
There have also been a few mentions of Pace ADS200.

Is this a better pick over something like the TS100 or the Hakko FX888D?

(The TS100 looks interesting but it's hard to find a definitive / official seller and I can't tell if the one here on Amazon is legitimate: https://www.amazon.com/UY-CHAN-Programmable-Pocket-size-Acceleration/dp/B01MDTO6X7/ (even so it appears to only be the iron and is missing things like a stand, a cable, tip cleaner, etc) I'd rather get a station that actually has everything you need to use it.

Pace ADS200 looks interesting as well but is pricier (no reviews on Amazon + unclear if this has the heater in the tip like the TS100)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 07:43:49 am by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2018, 08:44:29 am »
Just buy the simple stuff and get started.  See where the hobby takes you!  At this point, you need projects and parts more than you need test equipment.  As you move along, you will discover what you really need and then you can do a bit more specific research and make a decision.
I.e. let your projects determine your needs. Been doing this for some 45 years now. It is absolutely impossibe to guess what your future needs are going to be. So simply start your project(s) and see what you will need.
Agilent 34465A, Siglent SDG 2042X, Hameg HMO1022, R&S HMC 8043, Peaktech 2025A, Voltcraft VC 940, M-Audio Audiophile 192, R&S Psophometer UPGR, 3 Transistor Testers, DL4JAL Transistor Curve Tracer, UT622E LCR meter
 
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Offline TomS_

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2018, 08:53:33 am »
I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels.

Perhaps you are. I get the feeling you are putting too my emphasis on trying to get everything "right" the first time.

What kinds ofprojects are you going to work on first? Buy things you specifically need for those projects and those projects alone! Dont try to put together "the perfect" list and then pull the trigger on it all in one go, because honestly, some stuff you dont know you need or want just yet. Components can be sourced easily enough within days at worst from a myriad of suppliers, as well as tools - we really live in the golden age (depending on how you look at it) of hobby electronics now.

Some things will become very obvious once you start working on projects and you figure out what you actually need. Other things may take more time to become apparent. You dont want to buy too much stuff too early and then regret it or determine that actually you needed something else, in vain of your "buy once" goal.

If youre going to start with digital projects, like microcontrollers, perhaps a Saleae or equivalent logic probe might be all you need. You'll be able to see your SPI and I2C signals just fine, plus any other signals you may be generating to interact with other things. Some of these even have some limited analogue capabilities.

If you want to do analogue type projects like amplifiers, radio etc, the Rigol DS1000Z family is extremely popular for an entry level scope, and you may find that, depending on exactly what you are doing, it may last you a good number of years if not forever - because at the end of the day, what you are doing determines what is right for the job.
 


Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2018, 10:20:09 am »
hmm, just don't try to use the on smd parts. I eliminated all that cheapie tweezer scrap replacing it with one Bernstein smd tweezer - this one I'm using almost permanently. Imo don't bother with those lousy ones for 99 cents
 

Offline tooki

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2018, 11:04:47 am »
Start simple and leave out all the high dollar stuff.  Get a couple of multimeters and all the hand tools.

But that's just the thing -- if I start with one set of gear and then upgrade things repeatedly over time, I'm spending more money in the long run, compared to if I just bought the right gear right off the bat. I'm trying to minimize overall/long-run cost, because I know once I get past these beginner hurdles this will be a hobby I'll spend a lot of time on.
It’s unavoidable, and it’s completely unrealistic (never mind maddening) to pretend otherwise. I think you’re taking “buy once” far too literally.

On the one hand, there WILL be “mistakes”, in that you’ll buy things you don’t use, or where you like another thing better. You cannot know whether you prefer a flux pen, flux brush, or paste flux until you’ve tried them all, for example. But unless you’re fortunate enough to have access to someone else’s lab that’s got every option for you to try, you’ll just have to accept some redundancy.

But also your needs will change as you progress in the field and discover which areas of electronics appeal to you more, and which less.

Think of it like this: Let’s pretend that every tool, item, etc, is priced the same: $5 for a cheapie and $50 for a quality one. You could buy the $50 version of everything, but some of those things will not get used as often as you think, so an unused/underused thing is wasting $50 a pop, which adds up to a lot of wasted money real fast. Alternatively, you could buy the $5 version of almost everything to start, and then selectively upgrade the things where the $5 version proves unsatisfactory (frustratingly low quality) or no longer meets your needs as your needs evolve. It feels smarter to me to “waste” $5 items than $50 ones.


I am finicky, in that I like the feel of good tools. I appreciate — on an ongoing basis — how a good tool feels good in the hand. Cheapness bothers me, even when it has no impact on the final outcome. But I’ve had to realize that since it’s not realistic for me to buy top-quality in EVERYTHING, that it’s better to selectively improve the things that bother me the most. Pliers was one of those things for me. Screwdrivers is another. But often, cheap tools actually do work well enough and feel good enough as to not be problematic. That frees up budget for the things where it does matter.


It's also unclear to me what "all the hand tools" includes or what would be considered sufficient.
I assume it means the hand tools listed in your list. As I said, your list seems fairly reasonable to me, other than that you need electronics pliers and cutters, not generic handyman pliers and cutters, which are just plain too big for most electronics use.

I will add that as you progress, and you start to want to build projects permanently, in nice housings and stuff, you’ll also need to invest in the “mechanical” side of electronics, like tools for cutting and drilling enclosures, operating fasteners, surface finishing, etc. I think those have been considered out-of-scope of this list.

(Definitely right with the paralysis -- I went through this same analysis paralysis problem when I was building my home gym but I eventually got it settled and have been using the same equipment for years now because I bought good/quality parts and not cheap things that will need replacement, so it's a strategy that's worked for me even though it's infuriating while in the thick of it)
Electronics has orders of magnitudes more options than gym gear. It’s literally impossible to know in advance what you will need for all your future projects and tinkering. Accept that there WILL be some “waste”, and that you did your best to avoid it where possible.



As for some of your specific questions:
- Solder: nearly everyone here suggests 0.025-0.032” (that’s about 0.5-0.8mm) solder as a good everyday size. (It’s been discussed to death on other threads.) Dave suggests 0.3-0.4mm, yet in his videos it looks like he’s using thicker. But again, to an extent it’s a matter of taste, but above all it’s also about matching to the job: for ordinary through-hole soldering, .025-.032” is ideal: it needs to be thin enough to give you good feed rate control, but not so thin that it takes you excessively long to feed in enough solder. As for SMD, the techniques are so different that you’ll rarely be feeding in solder the same way. I have 5 or 6 different solders at home (ranging from .015” to .062”), but the Kester 63/37 at .031” is the one I use 95% of the time. The .015” is far too thin for everyday use, it makes most joints take too long, and it’s expensive, so twisting multiple strands to bulk up is a waste of time AND money. My old Radio Shack .062” is what I use the least. I need such thick solder so rarely that I won’t replace it when I finish it up — I’ll just twist a few strands of .031”.

- ADS200: Watch some of the videos about it. Yes, it’s a cartridge-style integrated-heater type, and basically the cheapest one yet from a quality manufacturer. It’s far too new a model to have lots of reviews yet and as you might have noticed, it’s not a brand that Amazon really sells — even their models that have been out for years have no reviews on Amazon. The reason the eevblog community is so excited about it is because Pace is essentially a super-premium brand, and this is their first product that’s not priced stratospherically. (Basically, Pace invented modern rework. Think of it like this: when NASA, the US military, or a defense contractor does soldering or solder rework, it’s going to be done using either Pace or Weller gear. But as an American manufacturer, the US military tends to give preference to Pace over the foreign brands.)

- Flush cutters: As I hoped, others chimed in with quality pliers/cutters options that are more sensibly priced in USA than Knipex.  (I don’t even have top-brand flush cutters, the $20-ish ones from the local shop work well.) As for which ones: for beginning electronics, any ordinary style will do. It’s not critical whether they’re absolute flush or have a quarter millimeter of bevel. The key is that they be electronics flush cutters, and not the big ones for electricians and metalworkers. But I do actually have one suggestion, come to think of it: they make ones that grip the component trimmings to keep them from flying across the room. I have one each with and without this feature, and I find myself using the ones with it most of the time. (Without this, you MUST learn to use proper technique to hold the leads, otherwise they do fly everywhere, and that can include your eyes.)

- AN8008 (or other Aneng model): People are suggesting them because at around $20, they’re really sweet little secondary meters. The performance is nice, they have great displays, they’re tiny (so don’t take up tons of space, and easy to take along somewhere) and feel good in the hand. They aren’t up to snuff for mains use, but that’s totally OK for electronics. Most $20 meters feel like crap, and this one doesn’t. (The $1 or free Harbor Freight meters will also do the job as far as basic measurements, but man do they feel junky. I suspect you’re like me and will find them emotionally unpleasant to use, even if they do the job just fine.)

- The 121GW has more features than the BM235. But either of those is an absolutely respectable primary meter.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 11:10:29 am by tooki »
 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2018, 11:16:43 am »
Well, if you decide to work for the first to work on low power low voltage circuits, I wouldn't spend too much for a meter. As you go on working on your projects, you'll realize, that all those handheld meters just suck working on the bench only; there is the issue working with device running on batteries. Personally I hate meters, which turn off after some time, and I hate devices, where the battery runs empty whenever I need it.

Imo if you're seriously into electronics, you want to change one day to a benchtop meter with mains supply - so the handheld will get automatically second choice only
 

Offline tooki

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2018, 11:52:48 am »
Imo if you're seriously into electronics, you want to change one day to a benchtop meter with mains supply - so the handheld will get automatically second choice only
This has been the case for me. The responsiveness and VFD screen of my Keithley 2015 has made it my go-to meter. The handhelds (an 87V, a U1252B, an AN8008, and some cheapies) and the Keithley 197 get used when I need additional measurements (or ones outside the K2015’s ranges/functions).
 

Offline rhb

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2018, 12:44:25 pm »
Important: The cheap meters generally don't have much, if any, input protection. So, if you get them, only use them on low-voltage, low-energy circuits. You'll see people say or video themselves sticking these meters in the wall outlet and go, "see, nothing wrong." Yes, indeed, they will work. But, input protection (like a warranty, an insurance policy, or a legal contract) is for the abnormal and unexpected, not the normal case.

The main input to the HF DMM *is* fused.  In looking at one, I rather suspect that the big loop of wire on the 10A input *is* a fuse.  Just not a replaceable fuse.  The meter is marked CAT II.  HF is not a small eBay seller.  I very much doubt that they would sell an inherently unsafe meter.

A very large fraction of my uses of the HF meters of which I have many scattered in various places is checking for line voltage levels.  I'd probably use a better meter if I were planning to probe a 440 V line, but I don't have any need to do that. And wouldn't be particularly concerned if all I had with me was an HF DMM.   I was using one of the HF DMMs when I discovered that some 120 V outlets that were miswired in a building with 3 phase were actually at 200 V.  Unfortunately, *after* it spun my 1/2" HF drill so fast that the fan came apart and punched part way through the side of the drill.  I use a clamp on if I need to measure large currents.  You don't need a 34401A, of which I have two, to check a battery. So the battery drawer in the kitchen has an HF meter in it.  Nor do I need one to test whether a pair of wires is 120 or 240.


I've been using the HF meters for 20 years for *most* routine AC measurements.  I've never had a problem other than broken test leads.   But I've worked around mains electricity for 50+ years, run  6 AWG service lines, installed breaker panels, etc.  My Dad used to drive me nuts pulling 10 & 12 AWG into a hot 440 panel by himself.  He died of old age at 91.  He wore neoprene sole shoes and made sure he was not in contact with ground.  And like Dad, I learned electronics on tube circuits.  He gave me a 5 tube AM radio kit when I was 12-13.

When you buy better tools the cheap tools are great for a desk drawer kit at the office.  When I was in grad school I kept a small vise, soldering iron, etc so I could make up or repair RS-232 cables.  Most of the HF tools these days are quite good quality.  The fit and finish is usually a good indication.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2018, 03:15:57 pm »
Looks like the 121GW is out of stock anyway -- so BM235 it is!

Free Harbor Freight DMM? Does it require going to a store or can it be done online? When I Google past threads apparently a lot of methods were either unintended or cut short.
Sorry to confuse you a little more, but you may want to consider a minor upgrade to the BM257. It's almost exactly the same as the BM235, but has a bar graph. That's a useful extra, especially in lieu of an oscilloscope.
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2018, 04:20:11 pm »
What kinds ofprojects are you going to work on first? Buy things you specifically need for those projects and those projects alone! Dont try to put together "the perfect" list and then pull the trigger on it all in one go, because honestly, some stuff you dont know you need or want just yet. Components can be sourced easily enough within days at worst from a myriad of suppliers, as well as tools - we really live in the golden age (depending on how you look at it) of hobby electronics now.

A lot of my interest is learning and just becoming more familiar with a wide variety of things -- to gain a stronger command over hardware and how things work, to be able to create whatever suits my needs, to be able to repair things if needed, to be able to modify things, etc.

I know how to code a bit so it would be fun to make an app that interfaces with hardware I built myself (for instance maybe an app that turns on/off lights in my apartment, feeds the cats by opening cans, etc). Might be fun to make a radio, a clock, a basic computer, light/LED projects, lights that turn on when it detects nighttime, mechanical keyboards, would be really sweet to make a portable SNES player, power supply, maybe a portable movie projector, maybe a remote-controlled toy with a camera so I can play with my cats with it while I'm out on vacation during downtime, make my own computer mouse, a set of headphones, etc.

I'm just spitballing most of these and I don't know how unrealistic they are or not as a beginner so they're more on the backburners until I learn more and get a better sense for what's feasible. But overall I'd say I'm just interested in learning and becoming more useful. :P

I'd of course have to start basic and work up way up through a variety of subjects but that's where my head is at, currently, and why I feel the need to get good equipment up front -- because I know that as I pursue projects down the line, odds are I'll be needing good equipment anyway.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2018, 04:20:55 pm »
Would it be overkill to get the DP832, assuming it's unlikely I'll ever need to buy another power supply?

Not in my view!

There is no way in hell you can build a power supply with the capabilities of the DP832 or any other similarly competent lab supply.

As indicated in another reply, some supplies are simply too difficult to build, even for the pros.  What you can build, you won't necessarily want to use.  OTOH, in a low-bucks operation, any power supply is better than none.

The feature I want, a digital display of the current and voltage settings (particularly current limit) simply isn't available in hobby projects.  I have never seen a hobby PS with features like a modern lab supply.  I want that feature more than I wanted the money it cost.  That's the tradeoff!

I have used all manner of supplies over decades simply to avoid spending the money on a decent lab type supply.  I simply didn't want to spend that much money.  Now that I'm retired and spending more time with the hobby, I decided that money wasn't that important, I wanted a reliable supply with features.

Here's a link to Dave's uSupply project - a feature rich design.  I don't know where the project stands but the Rev C schematic gives you some idea of how much electronics there is inside a modern PS.

https://www.eevblog.com/projects/usupply/

Every project you build is going to need a power supply.  Ordinarily, you will build a small linear supply right on the PCB and feed the board from a wall wart. You can build this PS at the start of the project or at the end.  You can use a lab supply for development or not.  I went with the NOT option for decades.  I built the project specific supply as the first step on the project.  Nothing wrong with that.

Or maybe the project uses 5V and you just use a 5V wall wart.  Many of my FPGA boards are powered from a 5V wall wart because the underlying hardware runs at 3.3V (and 1.8V).

The other day I was building a Z80 kit project.  I decided to power it from my DP832 because I could limit the current.  Good thing!  I had an address conflict and two chips were fighting on the bus.  The current limit in the DP832 dropped the voltage down to about 1V, no harm, no foul.  I resolved the conflict and the system powered right up.  It is clear to me that the adjustable current limit prevented the magic smoke from escaping.  Wall warts and simple linear regulators would dump at least 1A (more if the PS had high capability) into that conflict and the results aren't always pleasant.

Experimenting:  Say you're building a little transistor amplifier, perhaps copying something on one of w2aew's videos.  It would be ideal if you could limit the output current to 20 or 30 mA, certainly less than 100 mA, just in case there is a little 'oopsie'.  You certainly wouldn't want to dump 3A into a poor defenseless 2N2222



By the way, the w2aew videos are excellent!  His scope series is linked at the top of this forum.

Given that money doesn't seem to be a limiting factor and the only reason for building a PS is to save money, I don't see the motivation.  If building a PS is a right of passage, fine, build one for a specific project and use a real lab supply on the bench.  Given a decent bench, such a project might be fun.

Check out the last video in Dave's uSupply series.  He is using 3 DMMs to instrument a little test.  And that's why everybody is recommending more than one DMM.  Three is kind of a minimum.  I'm a lightweight with 5 handheld meters and two bench meters.  Others around here have a good deal more.


 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2018, 04:44:41 pm »
That's a good point: many beginner circuits could have been saved from becoming just magic smoke with a current limiting power supply. Sure, the components don't cost that anymore what the did in my teen days, where every burned transistor was loss of 1-2 bucks; but it's no fun to blow a circuit just because of a rush of current into it
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2018, 05:04:44 pm »
Thanks, rstofer. And yeah I would likely only make the PSU as a rite-of-passage, not sure if I'd rely on it in the same way as a more serious power supply.

Would the Rigol DP832 be a good choice compared to the Siglent SPD3303X? During the Siglent review video by Dave --



-- he mentioned he might do a shootout video between the two but this was in 2015 and I don't think he got around to it.

Heavily leaning towards the DP832 as it seems to have everything the Siglent does and from what I can tell has more positive feedback online.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 05:12:09 pm by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2018, 05:17:43 pm »
I recently bought a DP832 and it's doing what it should absolutely well; compared to Siglent I like the fully adjustable voltage on channel 3 e.g. for 1,8V circuits. I couldn't say anything negative about it.
 

Offline mathsquid

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2018, 05:35:07 pm »
Mains powered equipment is not dangerous if it is unplugged.

Is that true of a switch-mode power supply?
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2018, 05:43:15 pm »
the electrolytic cap on the primary side can keep a charge for a while, depending on the bleeder resistor
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2018, 05:59:07 pm »
Would the Rigol DP832 be a good choice compared to the Siglent SPD3303X?

The Siglent might be a fine alternative but I didn't watch the video so I won't know about any warts.

It has better resolution that the DP832 in that you can set down to 1 mV.  To get that from Rigol you have to buy the DP831 which is just a DP832 with s no-cost-to-them option turned on.  Like the DS1054Z in that regard.

Channel 3 on the Siglent  selects from fixed voltages: 2.5V, 3.3V, and 5V  It is not infinitely adjustable like the Rigol.   Well, shoot, it wasn't long ago that the 3rd output was fixed at 5V because logic families didn't use other voltages.  The Siglent hits the important voltages so maybe the infinite adjustment on the Rigol isn't such a big deal.

When I have a device that uses 1.8V, it normally uses 3.3V as well and requires a special power management device to sequence the power.  This is typical of FPGA devices and I don't build boards for these, I buy them.  Then I plug them in to a wall wart.

The Siglent is $80 cheaper than the Rigol DP832 and $400 cheaper than the Rigol DP831 (the price is stupid considering there is no cost to Rigol for the enhanced resolution).

I think I bought DP832 because I had already bought the DS1054Z.  When it came time to buy the Arbitrary Waveform Generator, I bought the Siglent because of a Valentine project presented Feb 14, 2017 (I think).  The project is linked in the following post: 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-bandwidth-confunsion/msg1293461/#msg1293461


I can't find my way back to the project but apparently it was in Chat back around the date above.

So, maybe brand loyalty just isn't important.  I would absolutely buy that SPD3303X-E  I'm not sure the infinite adjustability of Channel 3 is worth $80.  Maybe it is...  I could go either way and $80 just isn't a number that interests me.  The better resolution of the Siglent is nice.  Not necessary, but nice.

Either would work for me...

« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:10:54 pm by rstofer »
 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2018, 06:38:24 pm »
Well, I already have some loyality to the Rigol devices; and I think you mean the DP832A which has the high resolution and all other options already included; the 831 has one bipolar channel and a 5V max channel, while the 832 has instead of a bipolar two independend channels.

Like with the DS1054Z you can easily activate the additional options of the DP832 and turn it into a DP832A - with the exception of the colour display.

One important reason to stuck to Rigol is the fact, that there are 2 suppliers in CH, while there is none for Siglent; and it quite enough to import ham radio and accessories because of missing dealers, so I have no need to go the same way for the lab devices.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2018, 07:07:19 pm »
Mains powered equipment is not dangerous if it is unplugged.

Is that true of a switch-mode power supply?

As noted, in either instance you do need to have the sense to discharge the capacitors before touching the terminals.

For pete's sake,  this is an electronics forum.  People are supposed to either understand electronics and electricity or want to learn it.  I very much doubt that there are many 5 year olds with $1000 to spend on an electronics lab.

This sort of stuff is what edited books are for.  To provide properly refereed information and advice.  The annual ARRL handbook is an excellent beginners guide.  The internet is a wildly unreliable source of information if you don't already have a significant grasp of the subject.

In fact the OP would be well advised to get that and an older edition of "Electronic Principles" by Malvino or Malvino and Baker.  You do *not* need a current edition unless you're taking a class which is going to assign a particular problem.  Malvino is a PHD engineer who took to writing trade school textbooks.  They are beautifully written and he actually builds all the circuits in the book to verify that he got them correct.  The current edition is over $200 which is insane.  But it has the virtue of knocking down the price of the previous edition.
 


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