Author Topic: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.  (Read 11214 times)

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Offline johansen

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2016, 01:59:54 am »
A Lithium cell is about 70% fully charged when its voltage reaches 4.20V. Then phase three keeps it charging until the cell's current drops to a few percent of its mAh rating when it is fully charged and the charger MUST be disconnected.

citation needed.

did anyone else read this and ignore it for whatever reason?
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2016, 02:35:58 am »
If it is discharged to begin with, AND if it is charged at a specific percentage of C rating... then yes, it CAN have 70% charge when the voltage at the cell reaches 4.2V WHILE current is being pumped into it at specified percentage of C to hold that voltage up. Remove it from the charger while at 70% charge, and the float voltage will go down to under 4V, tada.

Keep it at 4.2V at that point with simple CV @4.2V, and it will be fully charged.

And no, there is no practical reason to cut off the CV charge at a specified number of milliamps current, except that if kept there indefinitely (like a laptop that is left plugged in 24/7 for months) it may accelerate cell degradation, and in this specific case there is no practical reason to not simply set CV phase to 4.1V, or whatnot.

As someone previously stated, OP's original plan of using a CC-CV setup was perfectly reasonable.

The voodoo people attribute to Li ion charging....  |O If you can understand the datasheet, you know exactly why it is described this way and what it means. It is not voodoo. CC-CV. Auto cutoff to prevent cell degradation if left plugged in. And to have a nice little cutoff point so an indicator light can go on. There is no voodoo. If you want voodoo, you have to play with NiMh.

Phase 1: CC - Pump current limited to a reasonable percentage of C... Because simply doing CV limiting to 4.2V will allow a greater current draw than that.
Phase 2: Once 4.2V is reached, duh, you don't want it to go higher. Switch to CV at 4.2V, and the current draw naturally decreases in a curve.
Phase 3: Keeping the cell at 4.2V indefinitely MAY cause cumulative degradation of the cell over time. And c'mon, we need an LED to go off when the cell is done charging.... you gotta call it somewhere. Let's say call it like 20mA for a 1Ah cell.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 02:45:27 am by KL27x »
 

Offline Audioguru

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2016, 03:07:02 am »
A Lithium cell is about 70% fully charged when its voltage reaches 4.20V. Then phase three keeps it charging until the cell's current drops to a few percent of its mAh rating when it is fully charged and the charger MUST be disconnected.

citation needed.

did anyone else read this and ignore it for whatever reason?
The Battery university tells us all about it.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2016, 03:14:38 am »
Well, even in the pro-hobby world you'd be hard-pressed to find a charger that handles more than 6S lithium. The big helicopters use ridiculous configurations like 12S2P and people simply charge the pack in two 6S chunks.

I suppose 6S means about 26V across a pack, not a "high voltage". Imagine a 20S charger, that'll have about 85V across the pack, that gets a bit dangerous.

This topic started with 4.2 volts max  (I wanted to know what to do with 4.2 volts).  A 20P charger.
But good to know about the 12s2p packs.  I do not think charging a cell 20 times qualifies as a 20P charger.  :-DD
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2016, 04:20:15 am »
Quote
I do not think charging a cell 20 times qualifies as a 20P charger.
Maybe you are not getting it? You can charge a 1S20P 18650 "battery" with any single cell charger, even a 500mA one, if you want to wait a few days. The current limited phase 1 will last a long, long time; the battery WILL be charged way higher than 70% by the time it hits the CV stage, hence phase 2 will be quite short (potentially non-existent); and the fully charged light will never go on (unless the cells are all pristine), because the current draw will never drop below cutoff. But provided the charger meets specifications, it will be completely safe.

The charger that was linked was a good suggestion because it gives a pretty high amperage for the price, and it has the ability to balance charge up to 6S batteries, if the need should ever arise. The cutoff point (bing! done!-current) may even be adjustable. And you're going to be hard pressed to find a 1S-only charger that can do 6A, any cheaper.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 04:45:40 am by KL27x »
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2016, 04:49:14 am »
Maybe you are not getting it?

My mistake.  I thought "Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel." meant "charge 20 lion cells in parallel"
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2016, 07:10:22 am »
It seems to me the OP might have been asking about a Need to charge 20 lion cells at the same time.
 
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Offline ez24

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2016, 07:15:03 am »
It seems to me the OP might have been asking about a Need to charge 20 lion cells at the same time.
Probably
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Offline Srbel

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2016, 08:32:34 am »
It seems to me the OP might have been asking about a Need to charge 20 lion cells at the same time.

Well, what else???
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2016, 09:31:06 am »
It seems to me the OP might have been asking about a Need to charge 20 lion cells at the same time.

Well, what else???

Parallel connection of all cells.  That is, having all 20 positive terminals joined together and all 20 negative terminals joined together.

You know ... the first concept that comes to mind when you use the word 'parallel' in front of those familiar with electrical stuff.


Parallel in time is not a common usage.
 

Offline Srbel

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2016, 09:50:02 am »
It seems to me the OP might have been asking about a Need to charge 20 lion cells at the same time.

Well, what else???

Parallel connection of all cells.  That is, having all 20 positive terminals joined together and all 20 negative terminals joined together.

You know ... the first concept that comes to mind when you use the word 'parallel' in front of those familiar with electrical stuff.


Parallel in time is not a common usage.

I thought you said at the same time. -.- That is why I was confused by how can somebody interpret "Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel" differently.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2016, 10:12:26 am »
The Op stated "in parallel".

For those whose first language is English - especially EEs and hobbyists - the term parallel in this context means:

... having all 20 positive terminals joined together and all 20 negative terminals joined together.

... and initial replies were addressing this arrangement.  This physical setup is what we would think of using the word parallel.  Nothing to do with time.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 10:14:30 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline ez24

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2016, 10:30:19 am »
...  Nothing to do with time.
Unless you are watching the Twilight Zone  :-DD :-DD
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2016, 10:33:12 am »
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2016, 10:32:07 pm »
I am confused what charging 20 cells "in time" means, lol.

I had to go back and read the OP.

Quote
I have them all wired in parallel, because I was hoping to build a custom power bank.

Is this "in time" or "out of time?"
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2016, 10:43:24 am »
I am confused what charging 20 cells "in time" means, lol.

I had to go back and read the OP.

Quote
I have them all wired in parallel, because I was hoping to build a custom power bank.

Is this "in time" or "out of time?"
That is OUTATIME.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2016, 11:12:35 am »
BTTF reference....?
 

Offline Srbel

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2016, 12:45:26 pm »
Even in time domain, "parallel" means "at the same time". Where is the confusion???
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2016, 01:18:12 pm »
General usage.

Using parallel in the time domain is not particularly common usage.
 

Offline grifftech

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2016, 03:34:50 pm »
 use this image to help you
 

Offline Srbel

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2016, 06:21:24 am »
To help whom? I am not the one that is confused.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2016, 08:17:15 am »
Quote
BTTF reference....?
You ever watch any of Dave's original videos?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2016, 01:49:20 pm »
I started in at around the 600 mark.

Been picking up the odd earlier video as they come up in random searches.
 

Offline grifftech

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Re: Need to charge 20 lion cells in parallel.
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2016, 08:39:38 pm »
To help whom? I am not the one that is confused.
the OP
 


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