Author Topic: Nixie Tube Clock Project  (Read 9972 times)

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Online Ian.M

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 08:13:06 am »
I've been contemplating about using TTL logic or an Arduino. I mean, if I were to use a crystal and divide it down to a 1 hertz signal, will it seriously be THAT inaccurate to be worth caring about? Like if it's a few seconds a year, then I could care less. Also, I've never used an arduino, and this project, should I go with an arduino, would be my first project with it, whereas with the TTL logic, I already have a pretty good idea of how to make my clock with TTL logic, with a few 4017 IC's and some clever use of logic gates.

Opinions?

Arduinos typically suck for timing accuracy because they use a ceramic resonator rather than a crystal however some Arduino clones use a real crystal for the main MCU.   With careful calibration, you can keep time on an Arduino to a few seconds per day, but if you want to do any better you need either a RTC or a high accuracy low frequency external clock pulse.   Also, unless significantly modified, it isn't easy to provide battery backup to most Arduinos as they aren't optimised for low power consumption.  This means that an Arduino based clock is typically over-complex compared to one built around a 'bare' ATmega328P.

Crystals really aren't that good for timekeeping.  A typical MCU crystal has a tolerance of +/-30 PPM, which is about 15 minutes per year. Careful trimming and close temperature control can improve that by about one order of magnitude, but if you want to do better than that you need to sync with one or more atomic clocks - and its most cost effective to let someone else fund and maintain them, hence the popularity of GPS receivers for timekeeping or NTP over the internet.  There are also various broadcast timesignals on the LW or MW bands but there's also a lot of interference on those bands and unless you have a background in Ham DX receiver construction or are near enough to a well funded timesignal station to get a very strong signal, its a PITA.

It's really awkward to build an accurate 'retro' clock in pure logic with no MCUs, FPGAs or other 'cheats', as to get anything better than crystal accuracy rapidly gets expensive, both to build and to run.  Probably the cheapest option is to divide down the output of a Rubidium oscillator module off EBAY . . . .
 

Offline PotatoBoxTopic starter

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2017, 05:26:13 pm »
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2017, 06:48:45 pm »
You linked to an ordinary oscillator module (not a TCXO :-//) with a +/-30ppm crystal - that's up to 2.6 seconds/day or 15 3/4 minutes/year.  |O

Its hard to find a low frequency TCXO that can hold better than +/-5 PPM long term and that is still a potential error of just over 5 minutes/year.
 

Offline PotatoBoxTopic starter

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2017, 06:55:59 pm »
You linked to an ordinary oscillator module (not a TCXO :-//) with a +/-30ppm crystal - that's up to 2.6 seconds/day or 15 3/4 minutes/year.  |O

Its hard to find a low frequency TCXO that can hold better than +/-5 PPM long term and that is still a potential error of just over 5 minutes/year.

Oh, I thought I filtered digikey to find TCXO's... Oh well.

Well I think I'll just use a ds3231 and use the SQW output to count the 1 hertz pulses.
 

Offline PotatoBoxTopic starter

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2017, 10:35:53 pm »
When prototyping with the nixie tubes, does it matter what kind of gauge wire should I use for the alligator clips? The particular nixies I'm using require 170 volts to power but only 2.5 to 3.5mA of current.
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2017, 12:12:23 am »
Gauge doesn't matter (within reason - it needs to be robust enough to survive general handling on the bench, but flexible enough that the wires don't unduly stress component pins or leads), but the wire's insulation voltage rating does.
 

Offline PotatoBoxTopic starter

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2017, 01:57:09 am »
Gauge doesn't matter (within reason - it needs to be robust enough to survive general handling on the bench, but flexible enough that the wires don't unduly stress component pins or leads), but the wire's insulation voltage rating does.

Found these cheapo ones on ebay. There doesn't seem to be a rating, will these be alright?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10pcs-50cm-Double-ended-Crocodile-Clips-Cable-Alligator-Clips-Wire-testing-wire-/400985352399?hash=item5d5c96e8cf:g:zCgAAOSwBLlVBPl9
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2017, 02:21:37 am »
Its a gamble - I've seen cheap Chinese import clip leads made with wire that was so badly made the actual wire was off-center in the insulation to the point that strands could occasionally be seen at the surface.  Other colours in the same pack were fine . . . .

You should either use clip leads made up with at least 200V rated wire from a reputable supplier or Hi-Pot test *ALL* cheap leads you buy. Even so, with cheap leads, they aren't safe to handle with power on, and should not be left lying on anything that could be damaged if they short out.   

Make sure your HT supply is current limited or fused at 50mA.
 

Offline PotatoBoxTopic starter

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Re: Nixie Tube Clock Project
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2017, 02:35:45 am »
Its a gamble - I've seen cheap Chinese import clip leads made with wire that was so badly made the actual wire was off-center in the insulation to the point that strands could occasionally be seen at the surface.  Other colours in the same pack were fine . . . .

You should either use clip leads made up with at least 200V rated wire from a reputable supplier or Hi-Pot test *ALL* cheap leads you buy. Even so, with cheap leads, they aren't safe to handle with power on, and should not be left lying on anything that could be damaged if they short out.   

Make sure your HT supply is current limited or fused at 50mA.

As for the power supply, I was just planning on buying one of these modules which converts 12-20v to HV.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171374739771?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm just going to use an old wallwart and cut off the leads for the 12-20v input.
 


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