Donate an Oscilloscpe?

[ataradov]

one of these over a Tek analog?

Yes, any day of the week and no facepalming required.

I hate analog scopes. It is possible that it is because I mostly do MCU-based designs with rather limited actual analog stuff. And analog scopes are just not useful there, but it also happens to be majority of modern applications.

[xwarp]

Funny........I thought the bid amounts on analog scopes on ebay were what people were willing to pay, not the sellers paying the bidders to take those old antiquated power hogs off their hands........

This is either people, who really know what they are doing, or people with nostalgia.

I'm in the process of restoring to a working shape a 1985 Soviet PC. It is an utter piece of crap, but that the first thing I ever programmed, so I have warm feelings for it.

So I can conclude you don't know what you are doing? (see bold text above)

[ataradov]

So I can conclude you don't know what you are doing? (see bold text above)

Wrong. I know exactly what I'm doing, and I know that even crappiest DSO works better for my use than the best analog scope.

[xwarp]

So I can conclude you don't know what you are doing? (see bold text above)

Wrong. I know exactly what I'm doing, and I know that even crappiest DSO works better for my use than the best analog scope.

Your use of an item doesn't dictate the usefulness or not, of that item, to anyone else.

Too bad there isn't an ignore option, you'd be first on my list.

Fellow is wanting to learn something new and you've done nothing more than shit in this thread every chance you can.

[ataradov]

Too bad there isn't an ignore option, you'd be first on my list.

There is ignore option, look in your profile settings. You are welcome.

[tautech]

So before you ever used a scope, you knew the entire theory of operation inside and out??

Absolutely not and I never said that. But by the first time I ever used a scope, I had an actual project at hand that I had a problem with. And my understanding of how the scope works was rather limited, but I at least had experience with electronics in general.

Additionally, I don't think that starting with an analog scope is a good idea. I know, I'll be crucified for saying that, but I just don't see the utility of an analog scope in a modern world.

ANY scope is better than NO scope.
CRO's are what MOST OF US started with.
If I couldn't have a DSO, I'd have a CRO in a flash.

[xwarp]

Too bad there isn't an ignore option, you'd be first on my list.

There is ignore option, look in your profile settings. You are welcome.

Appreciate that as most forums have the ability to click on the user's profile and select ignore.

And in the meantime, I'll withdraw my offer to the guy for the scope and you can send him one of those glorious $30 DSO's.

[crispy_tofu]

 
sigh, can we just all move on or something

[tggzzz]

Will passive probes work on any oscilloscope?
Ive seen active ones with chunkier box ends, with the extra pins to tell scope what value it is etc.

You have to ensure a *10 passive probe's compensation range encompassess the input capacitance of the scope.

A low impedance Z0 passive probe (which is actually a higher impedance than a *10 high impedance probe!) is usually better for frequencies >50MHz, but requires a 50? termination at the scope.

FFI see https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

[tggzzz]

Would I have to have the same Mhz probes as I do Mhz on my oscilloscope?

Roughly speaking, the bandwidth is limited by the performance of the lowest frequency component.

For a more accurate answer see the table in http://bristol.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=oscilloscopeprobes

[Gyro]

I promised myself that I would stay out of this thread but just one point and I'm out...

For a beginner just starting out, It is easier to understand what an oscilloscope does, inside and out (and I'm not suggesting a noob taking the lid off!) with an Analogue scope, what you see is what you get, it matches all the block diagrams and basic tutorials on the web.

I'm not arguing that digital scopes aren't more convenient for many (most?) tasks these days, but for a beginner experimenting in the analog domain - amplifiers, oscillators, 555 timers, any repetitive signals, and learning the basics of working in the time domain, triggering, scope probes, X-Y mode, Lissajous patterns, bandwidth etc, It really is a valuable learning tool that will give him a proper grounding for the future.

There's plenty of time for the OP to learn about menus, cursors, automatic measurements, variable persistence and all the bells and whistles. It's best for now to learn to properly interpret the trace on the screen. make your own voltage, time and rise time, phase measurements etc.

Edit: To address ataradov's persistent point: The purpose of the OP getting a scope is to learn how to use a scope!

[grumpydoc]

I confess I don't really understand this, almost hatred, certainly belittlement of analogue 'scopes for hobby use.

Certainly a good modern DSO has lots of tricks up its sleeves that an analogue 'scope can't manage but for the bulk of hobby use anythiing from a Tek 464 up will be fine, and certainly better than no 'scope.

Is a 464 better than an entry level Rigol - probably not but you should be able to pick a decent one up for less money than the Rigol - even a DS1052E is £240 in the UK and you should get a reasonable 464 for less than half that which will free up funds for a decent multimeter, soldering station etc.

Some people insist that "mediocre" is better than "best."  They delight in clipping wings because they themselves can’t fly.  Heinlein

True - but, euqally, don't let "best" become the enemy of "good".

sigh, can we just all move on or something

Not a bad idea

[vk6zgo]

Why assume anyone would crucify you for that comment ?

I feel like there are plenty of people here having nostalgia for analog scopes, forgetting how awful they actually are. And the grass was greener back then, of course .

Something is better than nothing, or would you not agree ?

Knowing what I know right now and being in a position  to pick an analog scope for free, or one of those $30 DSO kits, I'd go for the kit.

Read the specs:-

DSO138 DIY Digital Oscilloscope Kit Electronic Learning Kit

SMD is unsoldered and without instruction about how to solder the SMD.
This is the newest version 13804K (113-13801-050). (Update in 2015-09-01, CN warehouse at present not in EU&USA warehouse)

 Characteristics of indicators:

Maximum real-time sampling rate: 1Msps---about in step with the analog bandwidth
 Accuracy: 12Bit---good
Sampling buffer depth: 1024 bytes!!!
Analog bandwidth: 0 - 200KHz---about the same as a 1949 analog!
 Vertical Sensitivity: 10mV / Div - 5V / Div (1-2-5 progressive manner)------not spectacular
 Adjustable vertical displacement, and with instructions---ok
 Input impedance: 1M?--standard
Maximum input voltage: 50Vpp (1: 1 probe), 400Vpp (10: 1 probe---ok

 Coupling modes: DC / AC / GND--standard
The horizontal time base range: 10?s / Div - 50s / Div (1-2-5 progressive manner)----poor
[/b] With automatic, regular and one-shot mode, easy to capture the moment waveform----good
 Available rising or falling edge trigger--standard
 Adjustable trigger level position, and with instructions--standard
 Observable previous trigger waveform (negative delay)----good
 Can freeze at any time waveform display (HOLD function)----good
 Comes 1Hz /3.3V square wave test signal source--standard

Note:
This is a DIY kit, need to have some basic electronic activity and ability, because of different levels of ability and technical, we can not guarantee that everyone can DIY success, but we are committed to do our best of after-sales service.

Apart from the storage function,even the cheapest analog oscilloscope on eBay.com.au--a Telequipment S31 Serviscope,(no bids,start price $2) would run rings round that kit in normal 'scope applications.

If you must have a fairly lousy DSO,such not very nice things as the Hantek 6022BE would be better than the kit!

[vk6zgo]

one of these over a Tek analog?

Yes, any day of the week and no facepalming required.

I hate analog scopes. It is possible that it is because I mostly do MCU-based designs with rather limited actual analog stuff. And analog scopes are just not useful there, but it also happens to be majority of modern applications.

Have you ever used an analog 'scope?
Do you have the first clue on how to use an analog 'scope?

I can understand someone preferring something like a DS1054Z,because they can do most of the things an analog 'scope can do,plus the things only a DSO can do,but to recommend what is basically a toy is another thing

[tggzzz]

Additionally, I don't think that starting with an analog scope is a good idea. I know, I'll be crucified for saying that, but I just don't see the utility of an analog scope in a modern world.

From that we can deduce:

• probably you have considerable experience, unlike the OP
• probably you have never taught beginners about scopes and how to use them

IMNSHO, analogue scopes are better for beginners to learn to use because all the controls are visible on the front panel (not buried deep in a menuing system), and the traces are more WYSIWYG with fewer traps for the unwary.

[Shock]

Noone is saying fans of analog oscilloscopes can't or shouldn't own them. But it's polite they wear a mark so potential beginners can identify their bias.

[Gyro]

Not a bias, just simple logic:

1 - OP wants a scope cheap or donated
2 - No one is likely to donate a decent Digital Scope
3 - All the Digital scopes / kits in his price range are crap / toys - without exception!
4 - With luck he can find a decent quality Analogue scope either donated or ebay etc.

Therefore go with the decent Analogue scope - It's a no-brainer given the above!

[tggzzz]

Noone is saying fans of analog oscilloscopes can't or shouldn't own them. But it's polite they wear a mark so potential beginners can identify their bias.

Ditto digitising and digital scopes.

Personally I always to try to use an appropriate tool for the job at hand. Sometimes more than one tool is appropriate. Sometimes one tool is significantly superior. Sometimes there is only one appropriate tool.

Yes, you can use a hammer to insert screws - and (except for the last turn) professionals often do!

[Paul Price]

There are several advantages of an analog scope over a digital scope for the beginner.
1) It can be bought used for little $$$ or less.
2) It can be used for a voltmeter very easily to measure several points of a circuit in a few seconds, especially useful to see low-level voltages change at slow speeds in real-time display. Most digital scopes require the entire sweep time to complete before seeing the results or have only a limited range you can see a roll sweep, so for slow waveforms, it is  so easy, an analog scope requires no complex setup required for getting  instantaneous feedback watching slowly changing phenomena.
3)The waveform is not distorted by the resolution of the display or the very limited vertical dynamic range and slow recovery from overload of a digital scope.
4)An analog scope will not give you an erroneous display caused by aliasing/sampling errors.
5)Very rugged and usually easy to repair, it is easy for a beginner to have a slip of a probe on a input and change an expensive, impossible to repair digital scope into a box of spare parts. See how much easier it is to get a schematic for a Tek or HP versus a Rigol or some other crap Chinese digital scope you could just barely afford. I've learned more about electronics from reading the circuit descriptions and theory of operation of an old Tek scope than most of my work studying textbooks.

A slewing waveform or a ramp is displayed a linear continuous slew or a ramp and not as a step-function or a chain of dots.

In short, an analog scope allows very quick setup,  can easily function as a voltmeter, so just turn it on and you have a quick view of circuit action v. time without digitization noise at low levels, display resolution distortions, distortion of waveforms due to exceeding the small vert. dynamic range, delays in display v. circuit action and having to deal with a so hard to use because it is so complicated to setup instrument..it provides just instant feedback that is so helpful in  learning about electronics or even for a professional engineer or technician to do complex scientific study or engineering work.

[vk6zgo]

Noone is saying fans of analog oscilloscopes can't or shouldn't own them. But it's polite they wear a mark so potential beginners can identify their bias.

Most of the bias is on the part of the DSO proponents.
Mention getting a "cheap analog Oscilloscope",& they come out flailing:-

"Analog 'scopes are useless!"

"Secondhand analogs will always break down & are full of unobtainable parts!"

"They are too expensive for OLD analog,out of date technology!"

"But they're OLD!"

"I only look at digital stuff,so they are useless!"

"You mean I have to count squares?"

"They're so big!"

"What! no Auto button?"

" Did I mention that they're OLD!!"

"Who cares if my DSO reduces its sampling rate at long time/cm settings--nobody ever uses those settings!"

I could go on all day----"torn from the pages of EEVblog forums."

The facts are:
You can buy cheap secondhand analog Oscilloscopes --even on eBay.
(ignore the silly overpriced stuff)

If you can,look beyond eBay--'scopes are often available at Hamfests for $100-$150 for the popular Tektronix &
HP models,& very much less for less well known brands.

At Hamfests,people arrive with a certain amount of money in their pockets,& are more likely to spend larger amounts on a Transceiver,so Test Equipment tends to not be their priority.

"Just get a Rigol DS1054Z!"---hah!

US $375 is not "chicken feed" for many of us-------let alone $A600!!

Even a secondhand DS1052E on eBay.com.au went for $A362---for an outdated model.
Another one is $A500!

Modern DSOs can do just about everything an analog Oscilloscope can do,& more,but this level of performance has been a long time arriving.
Why else are there so many surviving analogs--why didn't they all disappear like the Dinosaurs as soon as the early DSOs appeared?

[tggzzz]

Noone is saying fans of analog oscilloscopes can't or shouldn't own them. But it's polite they wear a mark so potential beginners can identify their bias.

Most of the bias is on the part of the DSO proponents.
Mention getting a "cheap analog Oscilloscope",& they come out flailing:-
<snip>

Nicely put

When, not if, the "digital good analogue bad" raises its head again, I may remember to point to that post!