Pliers set?

[Pexy]

I am planing to buy a pair of pliers. And I was wondering if it's a good price to buy 4 kind of pliers for around 5$ a pice. Its black+decker brand(50%off)
Thanks

[CatCow]

What type of pliers are you looking for? It's a pretty broad category with a lot of stuff from the basics up to some pretty specialized stuff - and quite a range of quality levels as well. For most things the cheap stuff will get the job done, but it is nice to have some better quality stuff around for certain uses. I'm not familiar with the B&D branded hand tools, so I can't say much there, but they are probably OK and you can't beat a half off sale. I've found that a lot of the REALLY cheap stuff that is only labeled "Made in China" really isn't worth buying, and far too many smaller brands will just slap a label on those, or include them in larger tool sets. They will cause far more aggravation than needed as the jaws don't line up and parts slip out under pressure resulting in damaged product or body parts...

[BMack]

I am planing to buy a pair of pliers. And I was wondering if it's a good price to buy 4 kind of pliers for around 5$ a pice. Its black+decker brand(50%off)
Thanks

I think the cheaper pliers are fine for hobbyist/home use. If it was a work tool that you used daily then anything about it that was irritating such as an uncomfortable hand grip or one that twisted because it wasn't glued properly would not do at all.

For electronics I think the one tool you should get the best you can afford is a pair of side cutters for nipping through hole leads after soldering. Or for cutting dip package leads prior to desoldering. Perhaps I am showing my age. In a surface mount world even the side cutters are less important that they once were.

It's fine to buy a cheap set and then let your own experience guide you. I think everyone eventually ends up with a few cheap sets and the "good set". The same way my mother had the kitchen scissors and her good dressmaking sheers that she could see through walls to tell you not to use. 

You can find some really good, reasonably priced precision side cutters. Right now I'm using Knipex but I also use my Hakko CHP-170 when they're closer, these Hakkos are nice and made in Italy and were available in the US for $5: www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-170-Stand-off-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPDG1K

Super thin needle nose pliers are something you should also spend a little more on because cheaper versions flex a lot.

[Pexy]

Thanks I will see the best quality to money ratio and I will buy more quality cuters and needle nose pliers. BecauseI will use them more offten.

[Kappes Buur]

It is always best to buy good quality tools.
This, of course, depends on your financial situation and your age.

45 years ago I needed new pliers for pcb assembly work. There was this set by Xcelite and the somewhat more expensive set by Lindstrom, which I both bought.

I am still using the Lindstroms today. 

[nanofrog]

Thanks I will see the best quality to money ratio and I will buy more quality cuters and needle nose pliers. BecauseI will use them more offten.

Then I'd suggest you take a very serious look at Schmitz (they sell directly, ship internationally, and take PayPal).  To give you an idea of their quality, they produce all the ESD cutters & pliers for Bernstein and C.K. Tools, as well as some of NWS's ESD Electronic line (yellow & black grips). Only they're about half the cost (mine ran ~$28 each, shipped). Best teeth on the needle nose I've ever used.

[BurningTantalum]

I agree totally with Kappes Buur: In 1974 I was issued with Lindstrom needle nose pliers and full flush end cutters plus other tools as needed. The full flush cutters are a good idea as they don't produce a huge G-shock along the component lead when cutting. This was essential at the time as we were mounting glass reed switches on PCBs.
I still have the tools today and they are the only ones I use on a daily basis. I keep them in mesh plastic sleeves when not in use. Bear in mind that cutters have a rated capacity- My Lindstroms are max 1mm untinned soft copper.
A notch in one pair reminds me of lending them to a maintenance tech who cut the stainless locking wire from a hydraulic fitting with them !!
Regards, BT

[BMack]

I don't know what the cost of Lindstroms were back then but now they're quite high...It's one heck of a jump for someone wanting to buy some for $5 a pair. While I agree that Lindstrom and Knipex(What I normally use) are worth the investment, it's hard to ask a guy to spend nearly ten times his requested price range.

I think he can do rather well with Xcelite, Hakko, Pro America but even those are stretching the requested budget. I personally feel that besides cutters and the thin needle nose he can go cheap and upgrade later when that budget opens up some more.

[lem_ix]

I am planing to buy a pair of pliers. And I was wondering if it's a good price to buy 4 kind of pliers for around 5$ a pice. Its black+decker brand(50%off)
Thanks

I think the cheaper pliers are fine for hobbyist/home use. If it was a work tool that you used daily then anything about it that was irritating such as an uncomfortable hand grip or one that twisted because it wasn't glued properly would not do at all.

For electronics I think the one tool you should get the best you can afford is a pair of side cutters for nipping through hole leads after soldering. Or for cutting dip package leads prior to desoldering. Perhaps I am showing my age. In a surface mount world even the side cutters are less important that they once were.

It's fine to buy a cheap set and then let your own experience guide you. I think everyone eventually ends up with a few cheap sets and the "good set". The same way my mother had the kitchen scissors and her good dressmaking sheers that she could see through walls to tell you not to use. 

You can find some really good, reasonably priced precision side cutters. Right now I'm using Knipex but I also use my Hakko CHP-170 when they're closer, these Hakkos are nice and made in Italy and were available in the US for $5: www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-170-Stand-off-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPDG1K

Super thin needle nose pliers are something you should also spend a little more on because cheaper versions flex a lot.

Those Hakko ones look suspiciously like my https://www.amazon.co.uk/Piergiacomi-TRE-03-NB-Electronic-Side-Cutter/dp/B00841YA44/ref=pd_sim_86_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41DVyGUU0lL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=G3EAK0G7C2DVXY2Q1TNM which I'm quite happy with. Think I got them for around 5 eur from a local store.


Black & Decker is sold here as a very cheap brand. (almost as cheap as chinese "germans" like einhell and co)
Since you're around these parts you could also go for Unior, their tools are good. But maybe start with something cheaper and replace with better tools as you go along(and notice you need something better).

[SeanB]

B&D used to be a good manufacturer, but the later stuff at the bottom is just junk, also known and Break and Chuckit. I still however have some old B&D power tools from the 1980's, when they were made well, and had good spare parts availability and backup.

Now I buy Bosch, though the cheap ones are also junk, but the professional line is still good.

You will find the cheapest power tools are all made by the same small group of suppliers, just using different colours for the housings, and often the interior parts are the same, with the windings being cut down to the minimum that will last 15 minutes of no load operation before burning out.

[Gyro]

I still have the tools today and they are the only ones I use on a daily basis. I keep them in mesh plastic sleeves when not in use. Bear in mind that cutters have a rated capacity- My Lindstroms are max 1mm untinned soft copper.
A notch in one pair reminds me of lending them to a maintenance tech who cut the stainless locking wire from a hydraulic fitting with them !!
Regards, BT

The problem these days is that there are so many resistors with steel leads and short of using a magnet there's no way of telling beforehand. I think there's definitely a case for having a cheap pair of Xcelites for everyday use and keeping your nice flush cutting ones for 'special' occasions.

[BMack]

I am planing to buy a pair of pliers. And I was wondering if it's a good price to buy 4 kind of pliers for around 5$ a pice. Its black+decker brand(50%off)
Thanks

I think the cheaper pliers are fine for hobbyist/home use. If it was a work tool that you used daily then anything about it that was irritating such as an uncomfortable hand grip or one that twisted because it wasn't glued properly would not do at all.

For electronics I think the one tool you should get the best you can afford is a pair of side cutters for nipping through hole leads after soldering. Or for cutting dip package leads prior to desoldering. Perhaps I am showing my age. In a surface mount world even the side cutters are less important that they once were.

It's fine to buy a cheap set and then let your own experience guide you. I think everyone eventually ends up with a few cheap sets and the "good set". The same way my mother had the kitchen scissors and her good dressmaking sheers that she could see through walls to tell you not to use. 

You can find some really good, reasonably priced precision side cutters. Right now I'm using Knipex but I also use my Hakko CHP-170 when they're closer, these Hakkos are nice and made in Italy and were available in the US for $5: www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-170-Stand-off-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPDG1K

Super thin needle nose pliers are something you should also spend a little more on because cheaper versions flex a lot.

Those Hakko ones look suspiciously like my https://www.amazon.co.uk/Piergiacomi-TRE-03-NB-Electronic-Side-Cutter/dp/B00841YA44/ref=pd_sim_86_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41DVyGUU0lL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=G3EAK0G7C2DVXY2Q1TNM which I'm quite happy with. Think I got them for around 5 eur from a local store.


Black & Decker is sold here as a very cheap brand. (almost as cheap as chinese "germans" like einhell and co)
Since you're around these parts you could also go for Unior, their tools are good. But maybe start with something cheaper and replace with better tools as you go along(and notice you need something better).

I believe Piergiacomi is the OEM for the Hakkos, thanks I forgot who was making them for Hakko. I think Piergiacomi makes them for Wiha and Gedore also but they sell at a higher price...I like those grips more than my Knipex cutters.

[nanofrog]

I believe Piergiacomi is the OEM for the Hakkos...Wiha and Gedore...

They do for Hakko and Wiha. The Gedore stamped versions appear to be as well.

Gedore's more expensive box joint versions that are made in Germany appear to be produced by Schmitz. FWIW, Gedore's own plier & cutter production was moved to Austria.  If you've ever used CK Tools or Bernstein's pliers & cutters, you were using Schmitz. Very good stuff, and it's reasonably priced too. To give you an idea, buying directly from Schmitz can save ~$25 - $75 per pair vs. a rebrand (or more if you're after tungsten carbide blades).   





No, I don't work for Schmitz or sell them. Just a very happy user (along with Tronex, Swantstrom, Erem, Belzer, and Lindstrom).

[BMack]

I believe Piergiacomi is the OEM for the Hakkos...Wiha and Gedore...

They do for Hakko and Wiha. The Gedore stamped versions appear to be as well.

Gedore's more expensive box joint versions that are made in Germany appear to be produced by Schmitz. FWIW, Gedore's own plier & cutter production was moved to Austria.  If you've ever used CK Tools or Bernstein's pliers & cutters, you were using Schmitz. Very good stuff, and it's reasonably priced too. To give you an idea, buying directly from Schmitz can save ~$25 - $75 per pair vs. a rebrand (or more if you're after tungsten carbide blades).   

No, I don't work for Schmitz or sell them. Just a very happy user (along with Tronex, Swantstrom, Erem, Belzer, and Lindstrom).

I have actually looked at those Schmitz a few months ago(thanks for the reminder!), those are some darn nice pliers and cutters! It's hard to go with those when you can get Prime shipping for Knipex. I just wish Knipex offered all their electronics pliers in both serrated and smooth jaws, it would be nice to see them with comfort grips too. Unfortunately, because of this I have had to go to Williams(KAL is the OEM I believe) and Xcelite for my thin(and thinner), serrated needlenose...not that those are poor quality by any means but I like having brand consistency in my tool box/bag.

I've also heard Keiba(Japan) is fantastic. I personally can vouch for some of Engineer(Japan) pliers as well, their screw extraction pliers are excellent. 

Sounds like you have some great stuff! 

[nanofrog]

I have actually looked at those Schmitz a few months ago(thanks for the reminder!), those are some darn nice pliers and cutters! It's hard to go with those when you can get Prime shipping for Knipex. I just wish Knipex offered all their electronics pliers in both serrated and smooth jaws, it would be nice to see them with comfort grips too. Unfortunately, because of this I have had to go to Williams(KAL is the OEM I believe) and Xcelite for my thin(and thinner), serrated needlenose...not that those are poor quality by any means but I like having brand consistency in my tool box/bag.

I've also heard Keiba(Japan) is fantastic. I personally can vouch for some of Engineer(Japan) pliers as well, their screw extraction pliers are excellent. 

Before buying mine, I researched Knipex heavily. To my surprise, they're not as good. 

The primary issue is with the hardening. For example, the teeth are too soft. And this was supported when I saw an independent Rockwell C test that showed they were only coming in at 42HRC rather than the 57HRC* or 62HRC** as advertised. There's also QC issues, such as the jaws not meeting properly in general, so that doesn't instill confidence IMHO.  They do apparently have really nice grips though. 

But the real kicker for me, was free shipping or not with Amazon Prime, the Schmitz come in cheaper. Even after paying for currency conversion and shipping.   

Please note, I'm talking about the box jointed versions or screw type lap joint (example 1, example 2, example 3), not the red vinyl dipped versions in terms of cost. HUGE difference in the quality, and for pliers, you want a box joint (can handle the stress in multiple axis', unlike a lap joint = they'll last longer before getting sloppy).

Not pliers, but the stand-off cutters I have were made when they were still labeled as Made in W. Germany, so we're talking '91 at the latest (Schmitz, but labeled CK Tools). That's at least 25 years of use, yet there's zero slop in the joint. Divide that out, and the cheap stuff is not cost effective at all.

BTW, I started with green handled Diamond Calk and Horseshoe (aka Diamaloy) pliers and cutters as a kid (what they were before Xcelite bought them). Too small these days (end of the handle digs into the palm of my hands.  Another really good one I forgot, is Swanstrom.  Ironically, the Swanstrom family owned Diamond Calk and Horseshoe before they sold it to Xcelite. Then the turned around and started Swanstrom Tools. 

As it happens, my Swanstrom's are the largest pair I have, and I use them on steel leads without any issues. Paid all of $5.00 for them on eBay.

I've heard very good things about Keiba and Engineer as well (eyeing the thin jawed adjustable wrench). Koken (sockets), KTC (wrenches and other items), Nepros (ratchets), as well as some others too.

  * ESD/Comfort Grip series
** Precision series

Sounds like you have some great stuff! 

Picked up stuff as NOS and used at the right prices. Downside was it took 5 years to find all of it (there's some more specialized stuff in my collection that is rarely listed).

Only stuff I paid full retail on where the Schmitz, and I don't regret it.

[BMack]

I have actually looked at those Schmitz a few months ago(thanks for the reminder!), those are some darn nice pliers and cutters! It's hard to go with those when you can get Prime shipping for Knipex. I just wish Knipex offered all their electronics pliers in both serrated and smooth jaws, it would be nice to see them with comfort grips too. Unfortunately, because of this I have had to go to Williams(KAL is the OEM I believe) and Xcelite for my thin(and thinner), serrated needlenose...not that those are poor quality by any means but I like having brand consistency in my tool box/bag.

I've also heard Keiba(Japan) is fantastic. I personally can vouch for some of Engineer(Japan) pliers as well, their screw extraction pliers are excellent. 

Before buying mine, I researched Knipex heavily. To my surprise, they're not as good. 

The primary issue is with the hardening. For example, the teeth are too soft. And this was supported when I saw an independent Rockwell C test that showed they were only coming in at 42HRC rather than the 57HRC* or 62HRC** as advertised. There's also QC issues, such as the jaws not meeting properly in general, so that doesn't instill confidence IMHO.  They do apparently have really nice grips though. 

But the real kicker for me, was free shipping or not with Amazon Prime, the Schmitz come in cheaper. Even after paying for currency conversion and shipping.   

Please note, I'm talking about the box jointed versions or screw type lap joint (example 1, example 2, example 3), not the red vinyl dipped versions in terms of cost. HUGE difference in the quality, and for pliers, you want a box joint (can handle the stress in multiple axis', unlike a lap joint = they'll last longer before getting sloppy).

Not pliers, but the stand-off cutters I have were made when they were still labeled as Made in W. Germany, so we're talking '91 at the latest (Schmitz, but labeled CK Tools). That's at least 25 years of use, yet there's zero slop in the joint. Divide that out, and the cheap stuff is not cost effective at all.

BTW, I started with green handled Diamond Calk and Horseshoe (aka Diamaloy) pliers and cutters as a kid (what they were before Xcelite bought them). Too small these days (end of the handle digs into the palm of my hands.  Another really good one I forgot, is Swanstrom.  Ironically, the Swanstrom family owned Diamond Calk and Horseshoe before they sold it to Xcelite. Then the turned around and started Swanstrom Tools. 

As it happens, my Swanstrom's are the largest pair I have, and I use them on steel leads without any issues. Paid all of $5.00 for them on eBay.

I've heard very good things about Keiba and Engineer as well (eyeing the thin jawed adjustable wrench). Koken (sockets), KTC (wrenches and other items), Nepros (ratchets), as well as some others too.

  * ESD/Comfort Grip series
** Precision series

Sounds like you have some great stuff! 

Picked up stuff as NOS and used at the right prices. Downside was it took 5 years to find all of it (there's some more specialized stuff in my collection that is rarely listed).

Only stuff I paid full retail on where the Schmitz, and I don't regret it.

Good info!

I'm with you, I don't pay retail for anything. I watch Amazon and Amazon Warehouse like a hawk and pay attention to Sears' price fluctuation, if you average everything out I'm paying close to $10 out of pocket for each pair of Knipex...it's not easy but it has become a game to see how low I can get the average while buying pliers I can actually use. It would probably be better if I didn't buy a couple of Pliers Wrenches for only 25% off.

BTW, right now Knipex has some electronics pliers on sale:
37-13-125, $12.58: www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-37-13-125-Electronics/dp/B005EXO0UY
30-11-190, $15.60 out of stock but ships Prime when in stock: www.amazon.com/Knipex-3011190-Long-Nose-Pliers/dp/B003RWS9B0

The first pair was down to $8 last year but I doubt it will go that low again.

I'm definitely going to check Shultz out again. I want to replace those Xcelites with something that has really strong steel. Xcelite is good but they still flex, which is understandable at how thin mine are but any improvement would be welcomed.

[nanofrog]

BTW, right now Knipex has some electronics pliers on sale:
37-13-125, $12.58: www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-37-13-125-Electronics/dp/B005EXO0UY
30-11-190, $15.60 out of stock but ships Prime when in stock: www.amazon.com/Knipex-3011190-Long-Nose-Pliers/dp/B003RWS9B0

FWIW, the first link is suited to electronics use (125mm/4.9" long), while the second link seems to be more of a general purpose pair (190mm/7.5" long)

I'm definitely going to check Shultz Schmitz out again. I want to replace those Xcelites with something that has really strong steel. Xcelite is good but they still flex, which is understandable at how thin mine are but any improvement would be welcomed.

FWIW, they all flex to some extent (particularly if you squeeze hard enough), becoming more so as the length of the grips increases. That said, I don't feel like I'm going to break them for the most part when using them within their rated wire spec. The one exception, would be my Lindstrom Rx8140, which flex enough I've thought I was going to break them when cutting 26AWG (well within it's specs).