radio receivers/human speech/...sSS...sSS sounds/why?

[questron]

when human speech is on, some radios would make ...sSS...sSS... sounds at the end of words, what's the problem with such radios, and what are some of the ways of fixing that?

whatever anyone/all care to say about that are all welcome, thank you!

[xrunner]

What type of radio? That is, what are you listening to - AM, FM, SSB, ...

[questron]

oh sorry, it's just broadcasting band FM.

[david77]

Can't say I've noticed that with FM radio.

But when recording human speech this is a common problem. The harsh sounds S T F P freuqently overdrive microphones and amps. These sounds are louder in comparison to others. The usual solutions are speaker training to soften the harsh sounds and use of de-esser circuits. Basically a soft compressor circuit with a side chain input that starts the compression at frequencies of about 5kHz and up, thus taking off the edge of these sounds.

That said I'm not sure if it's a problem with your receiver or rather a badly engineered broadcast.

For a very nice and DIY friendly de-esser google XQP531.

[w2aew]

when human speech is on, some radios would make ...sSS...sSS... sounds at the end of words, what's the problem with such radios, and what are some of the ways of fixing that?

whatever anyone/all care to say about that are all welcome, thank you!

If you are referring to a hiss that seems to increase in volume after each word, then what you're likely hearing is the result of excessive audio compression. In this case, the audio gain is adjusted dynamically to increase average audio volume, and you're hearing the gain increase during the quiet period between words.

[questron]

Can't say I've noticed that with FM radio.

But when recording human speech this is a common problem. The harsh sounds S T F P freuqently overdrive microphones and amps. These sounds are louder in comparison to others. The usual solutions are speaker training to soften the harsh sounds and use of de-esser circuits. Basically a soft compressor circuit with a side chain input that starts the compression at frequencies of about 5kHz and up, thus taking off the edge of these sounds.

That said I'm not sure if it's a problem with your receiver or rather a badly engineered broadcast.

For a very nice and DIY friendly de-esser google XQP531.

such ability and refinement in handling a question david, thank you very much!

i mean, a background intro, some analysis, therefore some explanation, then some educated evaluation of the situation based on experience, then finishing it up with a great pointer, all that is just so helpful. really appreciate your valuable input! i'm reading up on this topic now...

broadcast FM reception is not that great where i live, and it seems weak stations do that to greater degree. maybe reception and tuning are also factors? it feels like local shows are worse than national broadcasts from the Lincoln Center say. don't know whether that's real or imaginary.

[questron]

If you are referring to a hiss that seems to increase in volume after each word, then what you're likely hearing is the result of excessive audio compression. In this case, the audio gain is adjusted dynamically to increase average audio volume, and you're hearing the gain increase during the quiet period between words.

thank you w2aew! i watched many of your videos on youtube, they are great!

i think it's the "target artifacts" de-essers are meant for, just as david described it.

you guys have opened up a new area in recording and "audio prcessing" for me, that's a great, i have a lot of home work to do now. right now i have no idea on what audio compression is, how did audio gain get dynamically adjusted, is that a left over artifact of AGC? will interference from computers, florescent lamps, etc. have an effect? etc. etc..

i think i'd do some readings on these topics, gain some understanding on them first, then diagnose the problem, then look solutions.

[BradC]

If you get into broadcast compression (maximise loudness without _ever_ over-modulating) you will find a wormhole of extremely interesting background reading and information where you could disappear for days at a time. Start with the history of broadcast compression and work forward and you'll come out the other end with your eyes spinning in your head. Not a topic that is often discussed, but one really worth a read if you have any interest in audio processing at all.

[G7PSK]

Is this what used to be called sibilance, and caused by the micro[hones response, it used be very prevalent on radios but not so much nowadays, the BBC used to have classes for their announcers to help prevent the problem, now it is done in software. Easier than teaching people to speak properly. 

http://theproaudiofiles.com/vocal-sibilance/

[Rory]

It is also possible that noisy sibilants are caused by multipath distortion.

A google search using the terms 'fm broadcast noise on sibilants' is a good place to start.

This is a simple yet clear explanation of what I think you are describing. Look under the section 'Multipath Distortion'.
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/radio-reception.html

[katzohki]

was it like this? "sssSSSsss"

[questron]

If you get into broadcast compression (maximise loudness without _ever_ over-modulating) you will find a wormhole of extremely interesting background reading and information where you could disappear for days at a time. Start with the history of broadcast compression and work forward and you'll come out the other end with your eyes spinning in your head. Not a topic that is often discussed, but one really worth a read if you have any interest in audio processing at all.

man, such wealth of information and knowledge here!
thank you Brad, i'll certainly add this topic to my reading list.

[questron]

Is this what used to be called sibilance, and caused by the micro[hones response, it used be very prevalent on radios but not so much nowadays, the BBC used to have classes for their announcers to help prevent the problem, now it is done in software. Easier than teaching people to speak properly. 
http://theproaudiofiles.com/vocal-sibilance/

thank you G7PSK, i've read that article, very interesting!
BBC historical background info on this is certainly very interesting as well, things like that give me a more real feel about this issue and, now i know humans are dumber than software

[questron]

It is also possible that noisy sibilants are caused by multipath distortion.

A google search using the terms 'fm broadcast noise on sibilants' is a good place to start.

This is a simple yet clear explanation of what I think you are describing. Look under the section 'Multipath Distortion'.
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/radio-reception.html

thank you for your great input Rory!

that's very likely to be the cause of my problem, can't rule that out at least, as david mentioned it is unlikely any FM broadcasting still has such problems nowadays.

i'll certainly pursue this direction, while i'd also like to find out about de-essing in recording and broadcasting whether there are the cause of my problem or not, they are interesting.

really appreciate you great help!

[questron]

was it like this? "sssSSSsss"

it is the s-sound, most noticeable at the end of words to me, although they show up anywhere in words wherever there is an s-sound and a sound close to that.

it is not continuous though, not a background kind of noise either, such as, say, the background hissing of a simple regenerative radio. it only happens where there's an s-sound in the spoken words. 

[Rory]

It is sometimes possible to reduce multipath effects by using a directional antenna to null out or weaken the reflections causing the distortion. This effect is akin to 'ghosting' in analog television.

[questron]

It is sometimes possible to reduce multipath effects by using a directional antenna to null out or weaken the reflections causing the distortion. This effect is akin to 'ghosting' in analog television.

see Rory, read the article you pointed me to as well, thank you!

tried moving the whip antenna, turning the radio set, also be more careful with tuning. that seemed to help somewhat, i'm starting to think now - maybe i need a real FM antenna. building a simple and easy de-esser would still be a fun thing to do though, even if my problem is really with reception.

[questron]

I think it could be the result of a noise gate. Recording systems do generate a lot of noise, even those high end systems. As a measure, audio consoles provide a function called noise gate. When somebody is speaking, they connect the microphone to its mixed output. When the sound level is low enough, they disconnect it, thus stops the noise. To make sure the speech is not interrupted too often, there is a small time after the speaker stops but before microphone is disconnected, this time is called decay time. During this period, you can hear the background noise.

where technology and art meet, we'd find a whole pile of creativity and gadgets for sure, OMG, never imagined people would do that much to their audio signals, one life's time doesn't seem to be enough to learn all of these!

now i'm aware of more about such things, thank you blueskull!